gary-mike Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Ok here goes. As I stated before, I am new and trying to learn here (and have alot so far) My question is how many companies make a version of the MD500? Obviously McDonnell Douglas/Boeing ( i knew they merged from my experience with F-15's). My confusion started when I heard them also refered to as Hughes 500's. I remembered posting earlier without researching first and read a story/history about how this came about. From what I gathered the hughes was the original built for the military and later sold to MD to produce civilian models. (in a nut shell, probably not worded right but I am sure that will be pointed out) So now that I think I figured that part out I see what apears to me to be the same or very close helicopter for sale on trade-a-plane. Problem is it is listed as being a 1987 Agusta NH500D. Is the listing incorrect, or what? I have always been pretty good at military plank identification, but cannot claim to know every version/model of helo yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary-mike Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 The link for the ad http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/990235.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apiaguy Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 currently MD Helicopters owns the type certificate. The order of ownership went something like this... Hughes - McDonnell Douglas Helicopter Systems - Boeing - MD Helicopters.FAA designated 369 Series helicopter. AKA:hughes 369OH-6Ahughes 500MDHS 500MD 500KH 500NH 500All the same helicopter ....and during a time the "owning" company allowed models to be built in other countries... Namely:Kawasaki Heavy Industries in Japan...KH 500 (can you imagine the green?..this one had a 2-stroke engine)Breda Nardi in Italy... NH 500 (this company then merged with Agusta);.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD_Helicopters_MD_500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary-mike Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Kawasaki Heavy Industries in Japan...KH 500 (can you imagine the green?..this one had a 2-stroke engine)Breda Nardi in Italy... NH 500 (this company then merged with Agusta);.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD_Helicopters_MD_500 AH-HA! That is where I was reading, but I guess my search link didn't include the last 2. I like the comment on the Kawasaki manufacturer, with a little more time I bet you could photoshop a rotor on a KX500, or a riders helmet. Maybe even add a boom and tail rotor. Makes sense why so many companies wanted to build them, they are sweet birds with impressive performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I'm guessing the Agusta version can't be registered in the States... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apiaguy Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 absolutely can be registered in the US... it meets the type design that is FAA approved...just assembled in another country. what would make you think it couldn't be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 absolutely can be registered in the US... it meets the type design that is FAA approved...just assembled in another country. what would make you think it couldn't be? Since the Agusta/Bells can't be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apiaguy Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 hmm... never heard they couldn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 hmm... never heard they couldn't Nope, not a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iChris Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) Since the Agusta/Bells can't be... Don't be too fast with that word "Can't". Take a look and let me know. The Agusta/Bell AB-412 has an FAA TC (See page 4 of the TC link below): The Agusta AB-412 Here are a few importing rules (link below): FAR: 21.183[c], FAR 21.184, and FAR 21.185[c] Also read: FAR 21.21 FAR 21.27 FAR 21.29 Edited January 7, 2011 by iChris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Don't be too fast with that word "Can't". Take a look and let me know. The Agusta/Bell AB-412 has an FAA TC (See page 4 of the TC link below): The Agusta AB-412 Here are a few importing rules (link below): FAR: 21.183[c], FAR 21.184, and FAR 21.185[c] Also read: FAR 21.21 FAR 21.27 FAR 21.29 Hmmm...the 412 must be different then. The 47's, 206's, and 212's can't be as far as I know...plus there aren't any in the database... I know for a fact the 47's can't be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iChris Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) Hmmm...the 412 must be different then. The 47's, 206's, and 212's can't be as far as I know...plus there aren't any in the database... I know for a fact the 47's can't be... All the above have CAR/FAA TC. I'm not sure what you mean. However, the Bell 47 TC (H-1, 2H1, 2H3) was transferred to Scotts-Bell 47 Inc. June 2010. That's the name you'll find the 47 under. Edited January 7, 2011 by iChris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) All the above have CAR/FAA TC. I'm not sure what you mean. However, the Bell 47 TC (H-1, 2H1, 2H3) was transferred to Scotts-Bell 47 Inc. June 2010. That's the name you'll find the 47 under. Yup they do, but not under Agusta, Kawasaki etc... I'm just going by what I have been told by my AP/IA's that have been working on 47's/206's/212's for 30+ yrs. Next time I talk to them I will ask them why. I thought it was something to do with the parts being made outside of the Bell factory or something like that but I'm not sure... Edited January 8, 2011 by adam32 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iChris Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) Yup they do, but not under Agusta, Kawasaki etc... I'm just going by what I have been told by my AP/IA's that have been working on 47's/206's/212's for 30+ yrs. Next time I talk to them I will ask them why. I thought it was something to do with the parts being made outside of the Bell factory or something like that but I'm not sure... You're correct. In the context of this discussion, there was never any assumption that Agusta or Kawasaki manufactured every Bell model under license. The premise was an aircraft could be manufactured outside the U.S. and still be imported into the U.S. and operated within the limits of the FAR's. However, had Agusta or Kawasaki made an agreement with Bell or any other U.S. manufacturer that holds the TC they could under the rules import into the U.S. Assuming all FAA requirements were in place. 30+ years in the field matter little if you don't read. Take a look at the referenced FAR links in the above post. FAR 21.6 Manufacture of new aircraft, aircraft engines, and propellers. [a] Except as specified in paragraphs and [c] of this section, no person may manufacture a new aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller based on a type certificate unless the person— (1) Is the holder of the type certificate or has a licensing agreement from the holder of the type certificate to manufacture the product; and Edited January 8, 2011 by iChris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 I don't really understand what you are getting at... So can you go buy this 212, ship it over here and legally fly it? http://www.lloydhelicopters.com/helicopters-details.php?id=1011#d 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iChris Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 I don't really understand what you are getting at... So can you go buy this 212, ship it over here and legally fly it? http://www.lloydheli...s.php?id=1011#d In order to obtain an Airworthiness Certificate for an imported aircraft of this type it needs to have been type certificated prior under FAR 21.21, 21.25, or 21.29. The answer is yes, If a TC was issued under one of the above FAR’s. The answer is no, if no TC was issued. Take the following example: Agusta wants to import that 212 but no TC exist. Agusta pulls the 212 into their shop and completes the work required to obtain a TC under 21.29. The TC is issued upon compliance and soon followed by the issuance of an Airworthiness Certificate. The 212 is now ready for U.S. operation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Okay, so short answer...nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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