Logging Ground Training?

[zippiesdrainage]

I'm a new CFII working at my flight school in Utah. I've been for the past 2 years buliding my flight hours and logging them, but now that I'm an instructor I look at my log book and see that row for "Ground Trainer" and I'm not sure if I should log the time I spend on ground with my students. I've never seen a job posting that required ground training time minimums, but I don't want to skip it and then be kicking myself in a year or so when I'm up to my 1000 hours and trying to get into the industry. Anyone have any insite or ideas about this?

 

Greatly Appreciated

[helonorth]

I don't think I even have that column in my logbook. You just need to show that you were instructed on the required areas of aeronautical knowledge. Whether it's in a training file or the log book, it doesn't matter. If you document it for the student, it seems a little redundant to put it in your own logbook, at least the ground training. That's what I did anyway.

[Trans Lift]

Never heard of anyone logging it and never had myself.

[rick1128]

I'm a new CFII working at my flight school in Utah. I've been for the past 2 years buliding my flight hours and logging them, but now that I'm an instructor I look at my log book and see that row for "Ground Trainer" and I'm not sure if I should log the time I spend on ground with my students. I've never seen a job posting that required ground training time minimums, but I don't want to skip it and then be kicking myself in a year or so when I'm up to my 1000 hours and trying to get into the industry. Anyone have any insite or ideas about this?

 

Greatly Appreciated

 

It really refers to a ground training devise like a 'flyit'. Other logbooks will refer to this a simulator.

 

As far as I am concerned, the only place a flight instructor needs to log ground training given is in the students records and on the billing records.

[gary-mike]

I have talked to schools, and read advertisements that sim time can be logged as instrument time. Provided of course that the training being conducted in the sim is instrument training. It was advertised as a $ saver and more realistic training for IIMC training as aposed to the foggles. I believe you do still have to do some actual flight time before being signed off though.

 

I don't know the actual reg, but now I have something to look up.

[280fxColorado]

I have talked to schools, and read advertisements that sim time can be logged as instrument time. Provided of course that the training being conducted in the sim is instrument training. It was advertised as a $ saver and more realistic training for IIMC training as aposed to the foggles. I believe you do still have to do some actual flight time before being signed off though.

 

I don't know the actual reg, but now I have something to look up.

 

I've never heard of it as required, but it's not a bad place to log required ground instruction: SFAR 73 stuff, flight reviews, required aeronautical knowledge for a licence, etc. Couldn't hurt! Cover your own butt. ie: If a solo student pilot goes out and busts some Bravo airspace you may be faulted for not covering that subject material, unless you did, and logged it, and they simply screwed up.

[iChris]

It really refers to a ground training devise like a 'flyit'. Other logbooks will refer to this a simulator.

 

 

That's correct...

 

14 CFR 61.51(h) Logging training time. (1) A person may log training time when that person receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device.

 

However, it's your logbook, so use the space any way you want.

Edited March 16, 2011 by iChris

[iChris]

I have talked to schools, and read advertisements that sim time can be logged as instrument time. Provided of course that the training being conducted in the sim is instrument training. It was advertised as a $ saver and more realistic training for IIMC training as aposed to the foggles. I believe you do still have to do some actual flight time before being signed off though.

 

I don't know the actual reg, but now I have something to look up.

 

 

14 CFR 61.51(g)(4)

Edited March 16, 2011 by iChris

[Helibear]

The column is for FTD or SIM time. If the FTD is approved you can log up to 50% of your IR flight requirements in it - so up to 20 hrs in a 61 program.

As a CFII I recommend logging IFR dual given, it might help for future jobs.

 

Independent from this you have to log ground training somewhere.

You need to be able to proof that you gave ground training when you sign a student off for a checkride.

 

§ 61.105 Aeronautical knowledge.

(a) General. A person who is applying for a private pilot certificate must receive and log ground training from an authorized instructor or complete a home-study course on the aeronautical knowledge areas of paragraph ( of this section that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.

 

Have a nice day

[r22butters]

...Independent from this you have to log ground training somewhere.

You need to be able to proof that you gave ground training when you sign a student off for a checkride.

 

§ 61.105 Aeronautical knowledge.

(a) General. A person who is applying for a private pilot certificate must receive and log ground training from an authorized instructor or complete a home-study course on the aeronautical knowledge areas of paragraph ( of this section that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.

 

Have a nice day

 

If the examinar asks, "where's his ground training?", you could just say, "he completed a home study program.",...I guess?

[iChris]

Independent from this you have to log ground training somewhere.

You need to be able to proof that you gave ground training when you sign a student off for a checkride.

 

§ 61.105 Aeronautical knowledge.

(a) General. A person who is applying for a private pilot certificate must receive and log ground training from an authorized instructor or complete a home-study course on the aeronautical knowledge areas of paragraph [a] of this section that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.

 

Have a nice day

The evidence is in the form of (the students logbook) and your requirements as a CFI under 61.189[a] along with your appropriate endorsement for the knowledge test and for the practical test. It's not required or necessary to keep a detailed log of ground instruction given.

 

"I certify that (First name, MI, Last name) has received the required training in accordance with section 61.105. I have determined he/she is prepared for the (name the knowledge test). J. J. Jones 987654321CFI Exp. 12-31-05"

 

Your flight instruction given (flight time) is normally logged along side your PIC flight time in the description section or a separate column of your logbook.

 

Another form of evidence is a certificate of graduation or statement of accomplishment from a ground school course or aviation home study course.

 

For the most part there is only one rule that requires you as a CFI to keep any logs or records.

 

FAR 61.189

 

a) A flight instructor must sign the logbook of each person to whom that instructor has given flight training or ground training.

 

A flight instructor must maintain a record in a logbook or a separate document that contains the following:

 

(1) The name of each person whose logbook or student pilot certificate that instructor has endorsed for solo flight privileges, and the date of the endorsement; and

 

(2) The name of each person that instructor has endorsed for a knowledge test or practical test, and the record shall also indicate the kind of test, the date, and the results.

 

c) Each flight instructor must retain the records required by this section for at least 3 years.

Edited March 20, 2011 by iChris