Glacier or Tomlinson?

wombosi · January 28, 2013

Just wondering if you guys had the choice between Glacier or Tomlinson, which would you choose?

Tomlinson (florida): Schweizer, more flying days per year (gets it done quicker), cheaper

Glacier: (washington state) r22, mountain/high elevation training, more cost. likely takes much longer to get it done given the unpredictable weather (maybe depending on time of year)

Tomlinson runs an R44 tour business that he says his students can volunteer in to build hours, in addition to or instead of CFI work.

eagle5 · January 29, 2013

First I was going to say Glacier, because I would rather train in the R22, and I prefer the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic,...however;

Then you mentioned doing tours in the R44 in addition to teaching, so with that in there I would pick Tomlinson even though I'm not very fond of the 300!

One question though; If you train in the 300 how do you get the hours in the R44 you'll need in order to do those tours?

wombosi · January 29, 2013

First I was going to say Glacier, because I would rather train in the R22, and I prefer the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic,...however;

Then you mentioned doing tours in the R44 in addition to teaching, so with that in there I would pick Tomlinson even though I'm not very fond of the 300!

One question though; If you train in the 300 how do you get the hours in the R44 you'll need in order to do those tours?

that's a good question and i'm not sure. i'll have to ask neil tomlinson.

thanks.

pilot#476398 · January 29, 2013

Don't pay more money just to train in the mountains!

BH206L3 · January 29, 2013

I would go to neither one to be frank about it. First you go to a good accountant and crunch the numbers in what its really going to cost. Figure in you housing and living expenses too. Then look at how long its going to take to pay back the loans and what that monthly note is going to be. Are you going fixed rate or variable rate on the loan? Then really really look at were and what the jobs are going to be with your 200 or so hours and what you are really going to make doing those sort of jobs for the next decade. Any good accountant will most likely tell you its a looser. Now If you want to fly great, you want to fly helicopters great, get a degree in something other than basket weaving 101, most of the aviation degrees fall into that category and get your self it the best shape you can and go for Flight School in the military. By the time you end up with enough flight time on the Civil Street to get that "Turbine Job" and servicing a mountain of debt, you will be well out of Rucker or where ever flying better toys. Or you could do what I did, Go work for a few years and save and then save some more and not go into debt at all. But I think you pretty much decided what you are going to do, and you posted not so much to get some good advise, but to validate the decision you already made. Oh there is no pilot shortage, never has been one, common sense would tell you that, since flight schools crank out pilots around the clock and to build fight time for that "turbineJob" you go flight instruct and crank out more pilots, its a constant motion machine- in order for you to get your 1000 hours- you need to replicate yourself about 40 times by the time to get to that number give or take. But its your life and money you can do with it what you please, its a free country for the time being. I am being just a little bit of the devils advocate here. Just really think it thru, they don't let you out of student loans, with bankruptcy. You are going to be stuck with it, and I take it that you are a young person be really careful and read the fine print. Or better yet have an accountant or a lawyer or both read and advise. You are talking about a big pile of money!

wombosi · January 29, 2013

Thanks guys.

BH206: are you saying neither because of specific issues with the schools, or just because you don't think anyone should pursue this as a career? It sounds like you have some regrets, and I've certainly heard a lot of the negativity.

First of all, I haven't decided for sure if I'll go through with this.

Secondly, I would do it in such a way as to have zero debt. I've owned a house for the last 4 years and put several hundred thousand $ in equity into it. My plan would be to sell it, and pay my way through flight school as quickly as I can learn it all and pass the check rides.

But, there are certainly a bunch of negatives to weigh first... I am well aware of them all. And I'm not so young anymore, either.

If you could better quantify your answer in regards to the two schools i would appreciate it.

Thanks.

eagle5 · January 29, 2013

Sometimes it seems as if most advice givers here assume that every newbie is a 17 yr old kid with no knowlege of the real world, who does no reaserch before asking about schools.

BH206L3 · January 30, 2013

I said I was playing the devils advocate both schools are fine, I like the 300 better than the R-22 but the R-22/44 is were most of the low time jobs are going to be. Since you have your finances in order, I made my suggestions based only on what you originally posted. Ok I made some assumptions, they were sound ones. As for being negative on it, well lets just say I been at this for almost 40 years now. I fly both and the industry is not what it was when I started and these days aviation is really on its back side. By all means go for it if that is what you want to do. Flying is not what its cracked up to be, when you are young its well oh so cool, then it becomes nothing more than a job, then it become do I really want to do this anymore. As far as the two schools you mentioned, well I would go Glacier for the hills. I transitioned to helicopters down in Oregon in Bell 47 G3 b-1's before the R-22's really started to take hold, that would be 1982! Of course I am Jaded, and you will be to in time, its the nature of the business. Some of my best friends are jaded pilots. We all bitch about it but would not have it any other way. Right now I am a very very part time Corp Pilot. I don't fly much, but I get to hang out in the hanger and keep the airplane looking good. When he gets his medical back I will be done by then the summer season will start and well the cycle continues. Go and talk to pilots that are doing the kind of flying you wish to do, and get their take on it and what ever advise they give. Most pilots would talk to you, I know I would. But then again I'm jaded so it might not count for much. Then again I helped guys in the pass with this stuff so what harm would there be with one more!

wombosi · January 30, 2013

I hear ya BH, and thanks.

Well, helicopters couldn't be any worse than construction right now and I'm already jaded in that field.

Let's put it this way: The $40,000 entry level helicopter position is looking pretty sweet right now!

eagle5 · January 30, 2013

Let's put it this way: The $40,000 entry level helicopter position is looking pretty sweet right now!

Where can you get an entry level helicopter position for $40,000?

wombosi · January 30, 2013

Where can you get an entry level helicopter position for $40,000?

What I meant was, after instructing to 1,000 or 1500 hours.

Most of the basic tour jobs seem to be in that range. Am I wrong?

HeliNinja · January 30, 2013

Most schools probably won't want to hear this, but sometimes it doesn't matter. I did my private at one (S300), commercial at another (R22), and finally CFI, Instrument and CFII at a third (R22), who ended up hiring me. It's really up to you what you get out of a school. Nothing is automatic and you have to work really hard to get your certs and a CFI job. It certainly helps to be professional, even more so as you approach the end of your instructor days.

Put simply, don't get into this unless you can't imagine yourself doing anything else. I spent 15 comfortable years as a computer programmer and now I have to worry about money and job security but I've never been happier.

eagle5 · January 30, 2013

What I meant was, after instructing to 1,000 or 1500 hours.
Most of the basic tour jobs seem to be in that range. Am I wrong?

Didn't realize you were skipping a step, so no you're not wrong.

Incidently, if you do your training in the 300, will Tomlinson really let you do tours with just the 10 hrs dual you'll need in the R44 to be PIC, or will you have to get a rating in it to get to either 25 or 50 hrs?