R22 to AS350 B3

[rockapotomus]

Hi VR,

 

I'm a fairly low time private pilot currently pursuing my CPL and CFII. I have the opportunity to fly some dual in an AS350 B3 in about a month and a half. Coming from R22's, I'm curious as to what struck you right off the bat having flown R22's (if you did) and then flying an A-star.

 

Obviously, I know it's piston to turbine and semi-rigid to fully articulated, and those are just some of the big differences in and of themselves, which I'm incredibly excited and grateful to experience, but I'm curious about some other subtleties that might not be as obvious to someone with my experience.

 

Looking to enjoy every second of it and take it all in!

 

Thanks!

[takefootoff]

....once you strap yourself into the harness (compared to a seat belt) and grasp the cyclic between your legs (compared to a BS T-bar) you will get this overwhelming sense of being in a real helicopter for the first time.

 

I'm genuinely excited for you, this sounds like an awesome experience for a low-timer.

[r22butters]

....once you strap yourself into the harness (compared to a seat belt) and grasp the cyclic between your legs (compared to a BS T-bar) you will get this overwhelming sense of being in a real helicopter for the first time.

,...and when you rack your balls climbing over that "real helicopter" cyclic, you will long for that good old T-bar!

[kona4breakfast]

You'll feel your wallet getting lighter much more rapidly.

Edited January 4, 2017 by kona4breakfast

[AS350 pilot]

Don't over think the fact the the blades spin the opposite direction. The left peddle still moves the nose left and the right peddle still moves the nose right. I think you will find that the old saying "if you can fly an R22 you can fly anything" isn't necessarily true. The Astar is a humbling machine to fly. That being said it is also the most rewarding machine I have ever flown (and yes I've flown more than just those two heli's but that info is irrelevant in this topic).

 

I still have the opportunity to fly the astar; however, most of my time is in other machines. It never fails though - every time I fly it I'm reminded of why it's my favorite….even though the other ones are "cooler."

 

Enjoy!

[Whistlerpilot]

The hardest part will be getting back into the R22 after flying the H125. The Astar is a great helicopter and pretty easy to fly. The B3 start with a collective throttle rather than the fuel control lever is easier to start then the R22. Just watch voltage, T4, and NG on start, keep your hand on the start switch and abort if anything goes out of parameter. The rotor turns clockwise so you will pick up right skid low. The Astar is like a slope landing ever pick up and set down. As you get light on skids the left skid will lift first, then front right skid breaks ground and last contact

Is the right rear steel spring. Just go slow and feel your way up. Obviously the right pedal is power pedal which is more intuitive than left anyway. The Astar doesn't need much power pedal to lift into a hover. The French name Ecuriel means Squirel and some find it jittery close to the ground. As with all helicopters don't overcontrol. Less is more and and a steady hand will hold it still with no problem. When you set it down it's a 3 step landing. Lower till the right rear skid spring touches and pause. Lower with collective and cyclic to get the entire right skid on the ground and pause. Now comes the finesse to a smooth set down. If you put left skid down with collective only there will be a thunk and possible ground shuffle. Instead use cyclic and collective simultaneously to smear the left skid down gently for a butterfly smooth landing. Just don't rush, and don't overcontrol. It's way more sensitive than the R22, there is virtually no control lag. Less is more on the controls. Have fun. Ask if you can do 10 pick ups set downs right away on a softer surface like grass and voila you will be a French helicopter pilot.

[rockapotomus]

@Whistlerpilot - that's incredibly helpful. Thank you!

[Azhigher]

When I did that transition the hardest thing for me was the hydraulics. The cyclic feels different and is much more sensitive. My normal cyclic motions to sustain a hover in a 22 resulted in massive over controlling in the Astar. Play around with different amounts of cyclic friction to get something that works for you. The pedals weren't such a big deal and the only challenge from it being a turbine was to not be distracted when I pulled in power and heard the engine start to really work.

 

As was already stated under normal loading conditions every landing is a slope and most will be 3 point landings. It's squirrely in a hover due to the fuel sloshing around, you'll notice it more coming in for landing than picking it up. Depending on how fast you get proficient in hovering try to be very slow and smooth on landings. Obviously if you don't spend a lot of time hovering don't worry about it and don't beat yourself up too bad if your flying isn't to the level you're accustomed to. It's normal. Don't forget to look around every now and then and enjoy it.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Azhigher

[Wally]

Never even sat in a Robinson, but I used to go back and forth from the Aerospat (Aerospatial, Eurocopter, whatever they are this week) to Bells, 206Bs, Long Rangers and later the 412. AS350 just feels different, like you're sitting on the helicopter rather than in it. It 'feels' higher than a Huey, even.

The hydraulics aren't a thing until you're getting checked out. Even going back and forth to unboosted tail rotors in the Bell wasn't a problem. The main rotor turning the wrong way is only a thing on your first takeoff, I might find myself pushing left instead of right in that process. Just keep the nose in front.

The starts freak me out. The B3 starts itself...

Picking up form the ground is a 3 part process (depending on where the wind is) skid toes up (3-5 deg from shutdown), left skid up (again, 3-5 degrees), then right heel up, break ground. Light, it hovers nose up and always right side low. You get used to that. And it hovers nicely at 3-5 feet, stable but quick. Bell cyclics are oddly rigged, slower in pitch than roll compared to Aerospats, which are uniform in all axis. Lots of tail rotor.

Hover power off the hover, nose down, accelerate, twice as fast as you are high until nose up at 55 IAS, climb to 200' AGL(?) suck in all the power you want, respect the redline and speeds, it's a rocket.

Your redline will be whatever it is.The FLI (don't worry it's an easy gauge to learn) will keep you legal and determine temp, NG or TQ as your limit. Just watch the FLI.

A clean B3, light will scoot right along in cruise. I was always startled at how low the disk in front is.

When you get there, it's not a floater in the decel, especially light. Decel, descend, just don't slam the collective down or the NR will turn up.

I start at 90 knots and a mile, plan to hit 65 at 300 feet for a normal straight in.

Unt now for ZOMSING completely different...The Astar hovers nicely, but becomes schizo when you try to land it. Concentrate on holding stationary position and s-l-o-w-l-y lower collective. At 12 - 6 inches, you might get real busy, pitch roll and yaw... or you might not. Fly it like a helicopter and make the pig remain where you want- DO NOT FEEL FOR THE GROUND!!! Planet Earth is right where you left it, if you think you're down and your're not the helicopter will dart around and the world will laugh at you. Hold it still until the collective bottoms out.

Lock the collective down. Lock the collective down. Lock the collective down, every time you land. This kills people, you'll see why if you ever shut down or start up with it unlocked.

 

That's it. Open cabin, good vis, lots of elbow room, flies nice. Enjoy.

Edited December 15, 2016 by Wally

[AS350 pilot]

There has been a lot of sound advice on here…kinda rare for this website (no offense). Just don't forget to keep it simple. I don't care what machine you're flying; a normal approach is the same in a Chinook as it is in an R22. Mountain flying principals apply the same….and on and on. Just look outside and feel the machine.

 

Have fun!

[rockapotomus]

Wow. Thanks everyone. This is all incredibly helpful. I've flown in one before, but never flown one, so I'm incredibly excited. It's the helicopter that got me started on this whole journey and I can't wait to get back in it, this time as a pilot.

[Wally]

You will love it. The Astar wants you to throw it around, play rough. No mast bumping, proportionate controls... don't do it. The hydraulics will jack-stall with the single hydraulic system or you'll get a limit light, all at the most awkward moment..

[rockapotomus]

Smooth, easy, and delicate seems to be the name of the l'écureuil game.

 

So like, flying a helicopter?

 

A ton of solid advice thus far. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

[ridethisbike]

You will love it. The Astar wants you to throw it around, play rough. No mast bumping, proportionate controls... don't do it. The hydraulics will jack-stall with the single hydraulic system or you'll get a limit light, all at the most awkward moment..

Jack stall??

[AS350 pilot]

Jack stall aka servo transparency is a situation you can get into with the Astar if you have your head way up your butt and are flying like a fool or are flying too fast in a turn with heavy turbulence. It's only an issue with the single hyd systems. Essentially, the cyclic feels like it wants to lock up on you and will force you into a right turn. It's counterintuitive but you have to either release control on the cyclic or slightly fly into the turn. You will recover right away then slow down.

 

I have felt the onset of it two or three times in 2000+ hrs in the astar but only in the high speed plus turbulence situation.

[TomPPL]

This is a fantastic thread, I so wish I was you rockapotomus.!

 

Soak up every minute, enjoy it and more importantly.....Come back and let us know every single detail. It'd make a desk jockey like me oh so happy.

[r22butters]

So, what will you be doing with this Astar?

[Eric Hunt]

Had one case of jack stall when flying fast and making a pull up with right roll - the controls turned to concrete, and it snapped left back to level. Relax the controls, the hydraulics catch up, and it comes good. But for military purposes requiring some vigorous control inputs, it can cause accidents, and has.

[HawaiiCFII]

Your skids are way behind you and the mast is as well. When doing pedal turns don't turn around yourself because your turn will be like you are turning around the nose and sticking your tail out or into things. You will need to feel like you are on the circle the nose of the aircraft is making. If anything turn around the tail not the nose. It kind of feels like you are in putting forward cyclic as you rotate. She's a lot longer than you are used to.

 

Controls are very very light and precise and it's easy to put too much input in. In a hover it will start to do stuff on its own and wiggle randomly. This happens just as you think you are doing a good job. Stay humble and don't move the controls much to stop it since you will make it worse.

 

Your cyclic needs to be displaced before you pick it up since it's like a slope. Depending on the weight it will pick up either off the right front skid or right rear metal tab sticking out of the back of the skid. Start with the cyclic towards your right knee, as you get light start bringing it left as your left skid comes up. If you are light it will need some forward component, if heavy it will need to come aft a little. All in all the total movement is only like 2-3 inches or so. Reverse this on set down. Take it slow. A single slow set down is faster than having to start it over. Even great pilots have rocky set downs in the Astar.

 

It autos nice and easy with a good glide ratio. Nr is easy to manage and takes a decent amount of flare to build rpm at the bottom. Remember that tail is way back there. The twist grip on the collective is an on/off kind of action between flight and ground idle. It is not linear and you will feel it click and spring into place. It takes a little longer to spool up than you are used to but the rotors droop much slower.

 

Power management is easy since there is so much of it. Ignore the digital screen in the beginning and just worry about flying the thing.

 

If you want to geek out on it hit me up since I have the pdf manuals and some powerpoints I made for each model.

 

Have fun

[rockapotomus]

Thanks @HawaiiCFII! Just pm'd you.

[rockapotomus]

Hey VR,

 

Apologies it took me a while to get back to you all here. Just wanted to extend the biggest thanks to everyone that contributed to this thread. I had an incredible time flying my all-time favorite helicopter, and I do chalk part of that up to the fact that your insight and knowledge helped me prepare for it. I felt pretty prepared for a little Robbie guy! The Astar is one incredible machine. I'm in love haha.

 

A few observations. Probably not much new to anyone who's flown an Astar, but maybe helpful to folks making the transition at some point...

• There is SO MUCH POWER. You really feel it. I was very ginger on the collective at first, but once I got used to how it responds, I had an absolute blast. It was an absolute dream to fly, in my humble opinion. I love Robbies though, don't get me wrong!
• The controls are WAY more sensitive than I was anticipating. My first few times on them, I was pretty blown away, but once I got the hang of it, it was all good.
• It's definitely squirrelly on pick-up and set-down. It's weird; it just wants to buck around, which is disconcerting. My first time picking up was...well...kind of rocky. I learned that less is more here. When I over-controlled, I just ended up making it worse. I felt like I got better, but I didn't get as much practice doing this as I'd hoped for. All good, though!
• The FLI is my new favorite gauge. I love how simple it is.
• Start-up - it was a B3e - is awesome.
• Pedal work is, obviously, opposite and, honestly, it did trip me up for a hot second, but once I got the muscle memory of it down, it was great. Right pedal does seem more intuitive now as power pedal though...
• Once I got back in a Robbie, I actually felt like my flying was much tighter, more fluid, and just "cleaner." I don't know if that makes sense, but maybe it does. I learned a lot from the chief pilot of this Astar, which I know definitely contributed to that, but I also think it's in part to having the experience of operating such a powerful machine.

All in all, thank you again, sincerely. Feel free to ask any other questions or DM me.

[mudkow60]

I like your observations and enthusiasm.

 

I only have a few hours in one, but thought it was very fun, with lots of power. Now, if they would just put some darn baffles in the fuel tank!

[Retreating Brain Stall]

She doesn't need baffles if you treat her right;)

[takefootoff]

^^^undisputed, the best profile name^^^

[LTE]

The first thing that will strike you is how much higher you're sitting - your sight picture is going to be significantly different.

Which means your hover height is going to feel really weird at first.

If you can spend a few mins picking it up and setting it down, before you go fly, then do that.

Tail rotor is very responsive, relatively similar to the R22, you'll be amazed how similar the tail reacts to what you're used to.

Don't overthink the whole ...but the rotor blades turn the other way... in fact don't think about it at all, just keep your eyes outside and apply whichever pedal you need to keep the ship in trim.

The rest is going to be a ton of awesome, enjoy