Check Lists

March 9, 2006

This is bound to be a controversial topic. How do we use our checklists? OR do we even?

I dont really use one, i have seen too many "readers" of checklists too. (i know as far as students go tho-- "USE YOUR CHECKLIST") ! !

I tend to keep mine in the "background", go thru everything as i see fit, then refer to the checklist to make sure i havent over looked anything on it.

ALSO?! where DID that checklist that you are using come from?,,, my hangar neighbor has a cessna 182, i used to see him out there starting the thing,,, pumping the throttle b4 he turned the key everytime ! one day i explained to him that he stood a good chance of starting a fire IF the engine backfired thru the carb. He then showed me his checklist that directed him to do that ! I then asked him for his operating handbook & proceeded to show him that his "checklist" was not according to the cessna book, & was made up by "someone".

HH60Pilot · March 13, 2006

There are several things that come to mind when I read your question.

First...Telling the plaintiff's attorney that you didn't use a checklist because you have it memorized will probably double the dollar amount of the settlement that the jury awards.

Second...If I had tried not using a checklist in the Air Force, I would have found myself standing in front of the CO, who would have his hand out asking me to kindly give him my wings.

Third...Next time you fly the friendly skies, how comfortable would you be knowing that the cockpit crew decided not to use the checklist?

Checklists are there for a reason; to ensure that everything is done properly and in the correct sequence. I'm not sure why you think that they shouldn't apply to you, eventhough you seem adament that the student pilot should be using them. Maybe you should check with the Chief Pilot at PHI, Air Log, Rotorcraft Leasing, Keystone Helicopters, Air Evac Med Team, Med-Trans Corp, CALSTAR, REACH, and a few others and see what they would say about the use of checklists. I have a feeling that you will find them pretty much in agreement..."USE YOUR CHECKLIST."

Using the checklist isn't just for the student pilot...it is for every pilot.

Just my two-cents...Doug

Gerhardt · March 13, 2006

yeah, what Doug said.

March 13, 2006

OK, let me clear this up:

I have flown w/ people that "read" the checklist- dont do anything but read it, you have never seen that type?

I said i keep mine "in the background" & refer to it AFTER i have checked everything ( which i personally think keeps me from being a "reader")

I heard a story of a ENG news pilot that got fired from his job for taking too long to get the machine in the air & to the story because he took too long to go thru his checklist, not sure how fast their "other" pilots were at "using" a checklist.

I do not think that using a checklist doesnt pertain to me & i never said that. What i wanted to get the point across is that 1) make sure you "know how to use" your checklist rather than "know how to read it" 2) make sure that you are using a proper checklist

Gerhardt · March 13, 2006

I know what you're saying and I'm absolutely not being judgemental, just giving my two cents worth. After going through a checklist a thousand times it's easy to become thoroughly knowledgeable about every item. There's another word for that - complacent. And I suspect every pilot has been there at one time or another. Has anyone here ever tried to start the engine with the mixture all the way out? Been there. Another one that stands out in my mind is breezing right through the part about checking the doors only to have the CFI smack me in the back of the head because the guy before me put the doors on but didn't put the cotter pins in. He was right that my transgression was greater than the guy that didn't put the pins in. That's one I'll never miss again.

It would be SO EASY to look at a checklist afterward and think you've gone over every item when in fact you've missed the smallest detail, one that could be fatal. It's not hard to picture someone forgetting to take off the cyclic friction...going over the checklist later and mentally checking off "cyclic". After all, there it is, right in front of you, and you remembered checking the movement to make sure it was free...before putting the friction back on.

And every bit as important as the effect it has on your flying is the effect it has on others' flying. You know the student pilot and low-hours pilot (ones easily influenced) that see you working w/o a checklist are taking note. And thinking that once they build a few hours and become more adept that they won't need to walk around using a checklist like a novice.

Have a good week.

flingwing206 · March 13, 2006

Using a checklist properly IMHO means combining a "to do list" process with something along the lines of what Pokey is describing. It also depends on what you are doing. For instance, a preflight inspection checklist is usually a line-item list. A startup checklist may have areas where you perform many steps in rapid succession - for instance, starting the mighty R22:

IGNITION SWITCH: START THEN BOTH

IDLE SPEED: 55%

CLUTCH SWITCH: ENGAGE (NO DELAY) SWITCH GUARD CLOSED

ALT SWITCH: ON

BLADES TURNING WITHIN 7 SECONDS

OIL PRESSURE: >25 PSI

KEEP 55%, AVOID OPERATION BETWEEN 60% - 70% ROTOR SPEEDS

You have to have this committed to memory, as you cannot perform the startup properly if you are following a to-do-list mentality. For a new to the R22 pilot, you have to rehearse it, do it, then check to be sure you didn't miss anything. Imagine the possible disasters of using a punch-list approach while starting a C20 - "Throttle to idle", yep ok, now what, where was I oh yeah, "TOT 810 - 927 ten sec max, not to exceed 927", now where's that TOT gauge...

If a checklist is properly designed, it will "flow" in the cockpit, having you move your eyes, hands and mind in an efficient and logical sequence inside the cockpit and through a process. I grill my trainees until they are able to preflight and start/runup the helicopter without the checklist, and I am adament that they use the checklist every time, as I do. Not too long ago I was (yes) "in a rush" to get a helicopter moved before a hailstorm arrived. I got it moved in one piece, but I arrived with transponder and boost pumps off, lateral cyclic friction partially applied, and a kneeboard lying behind the passenger-side pedals. Experience was a kind teacher that day - using the checklist would have only added about 20 seconds to the startup time. No ENG pilot is going to be fired for using a checklist - 90% of the time you are sitting on the dolly waiting for the camera op/reporter to wander out anyway (now THAT's something you should have on the checklist- CAMERA OP - ON BOARD)!

March 13, 2006

i totally agree Fling, and yes he was fired. Seems that he was afraid of the scenerio that HH60 presented & refused to go thru the list any faster or leave anything out,I dont know the full story & "knew of" this pilot but never met him. A friend of mine who is a retired 747 captain has this to say about checklists, of which i agree w/ "almost" all of it.

"Why would I ask a question that has such an obvious answer? I ask it because many pilots that I have observed and talked to do not appear to be standardized in their use of checklists. I have also noted about 50% of the pilots I have flown with dont use any checklists! Although almost every textbook on the subject of flying stresses the importance of using checklists, none that I have read give specific instructions on how to use them.

Two ways to use checklists

There appears to be two different ways that a checklist can be used. The first way is to use a checklist as a set of instructions that lead you to each item which you check. The second method is for the pilot to first check each item from memory and then to use a checklist as a true double check. This reaffirms that each item is ready for flight. Most of the light plane pilots that I have observed use the first method. I would like to suggest that the second method is the better one to use for your normal, everyday checklists. This is the method used by all airline pilots. The first method - using it as a list of instructions - does have a place in your flying operation. Ill address its proper use later.

Normal checklists and Emergency checklists

There are two kinds of checklists. The first can be described as normal checklists. They include the before start, after start, taxi, before takeoff, cruise, before landing, after landing and secure aircraft checklists. These are used every time you fly and should be committed to memory. The second are grouped together as emergency checklists and include the engine failure, engine fire, cabin fire, hydraulic system failure, landing gear does not extend checklists. They are rarely used and should not be memorized.

Each checklist, both normal and emergency is made up of two parts, a challenge and a response. For any normal checklist, the pilot first completes all preflight checks from memory. Next, he should read each challenge item and check that the item is correctly positioned according to the response part of the checklist. This is the way that the double check happens.

Use your passenger or co-pilot to read aloud the checklist

If you have a passenger or a co-pilot in the right seat, you should bring him into this process. After you have accomplished all items from memory, ask him to read the challenge and to check that your response is the correct one. This is considered to be so important that it is considered incorrect to use any words or phrases except those as noted exactly by the checklist. I also reach out and physically touch each item as I respond to the challenge.

If the reading of the checklist is interrupted in any manner, for example, by a passenger or an ATC radio call, it should be restarted again from the beginning. This method of using the normal checklist assures that a true and complete double check happens. This is the very best way to use a checklist.

The order of the items appearing on the normal checklist should reflect some order of flow to bring an organized, easily accomplished from memory, check. This can be a left to right flow or a clockwise flow or a counter clockwise flow. Your personal preference should be applied to this choice of flow.

A correct response is far more important than a quick one.

The emergency checklist should be utilized as you would use a set of instructions. First, you read the items, both the challenge and the response from the checklist, and then you complete the item as directed by the checklist. The philosophy guiding this policy is determined by the fact emergencies happen quite rarely. It would be a very difficult task to commit all the items for the many different emergency checklists to memory. In addition, very few emergencies call for instant responses.

The past 26 years experience of using checklists in the above described manner while flying the Lockheed Constellation, the Boeing 727, 707 and 747 in scheduled passenger service, has convinced me there is no better way. It has caused me to apply it to flying my Cessna 182 and Aeronca 7AC. It is the only system of using checklists that I use.

Most pilots that I have observed in the world of general aviation utilize their normal checklists incorrectly. Most use them as instructional lists by first reading the item and then checking that it has been accomplished. Therefore, no true double check has happened. I would suggest that the method of first setting up the aircraft systems from memory and then accomplishing a checklist be adopted.

In addition, I have observed that many pilots use no checklist!

When asked most will say they do it from memory or their aircraft is so simple that no checklist is needed.

I have also observed that the checklists supplied by the manufacturer have some serious drawbacks to their regular use. These drawbacks include the fact the checklist is usually printed as pages in a manual and is rarely convenient to use in a cramped, poorly lit cockpit. Frequently, they are not specific enough to the electronic equipment installed or the auto-pilot/flight director equipment.

Professional pilots use checklists 100% of the time!

To make the use of your checklist more palatable and more likely to be used on a regular basis, I would suggest that you personalize your normal checklists. Build your checklist in a format that is easily available in your cockpit and easy to read. It should reflect your specific use of the equipment that is currently installed and your preference regarding flow. If you do these two very basic items, you will enjoy safer flying by utilizing checklists the way the professionals use checklists - 100% of the time! "

joker · March 13, 2006

Pokey,

Great post, with a lot of good advice.

You will notice a slight contradiction to what you said about Emergency and Normal checklists and which to memorise or not. I think either way is appropriate, depending on the aircraft and the type of operation.

I work in a multicrew environment and the checklists are used religiously. As well as being a way to ensure that all necessary things are done, the checklists also create a 'standardized' environment. This means that any pair of pilots can jump in together and they both know what they are going to expect.

We use the challenge - response method. i.e. PF calls for the appropriate checklist. PNF not flying reads one side, and then the PF reads the response.

As you mentioned, the standard words printed on the checklist are used. For example:

Nav Comms.......Set and Checked

Some of the checklists do have specific jobs for RHS (right hand seat) and LHS. These might be due to the cockpit configuration where it is not practical for the RHS pilot to perform that task (or vice versa).

All our checklists terminate with the very important words, "CHECKLIST COMPLETE." This is particularly important with the emergency checklists.

Emergency Checklists

When I taught in the 300CB (and R22), I required my students to know most of the Emergency procedures verbatim in their head. This is beacuse in that aircraft, most of the emergencies listed are not ones which you have time to get the checklist out. For example, an engine failure requires immediate action, as does a Tail Rotor Failure. Also there aren't that many emergency procedures for the 300CB. The last reason was because when single pilot, faced with say, an engine fire in flight, you aren't really in a position to get a checklist out, flip the pages to the right procedure etc..etc..

Of course, as the aircraft gets more complicated, so does the range of emergencies. It is true that most of the emergency procedures in the S76 do not require memorised actions. There are some memory items, which of course must be memorised. But the main bulk of the emergency checklists do not. Still that's no excuse for not being familiar with all the proceedures, memory-items or not. I keep a copy of the Emergency Procedures by my bedside.

Another important thing is that unless there are memory items concerned, or they have been done, the checklist must be consulted and followed, no matter how small the emergency. This is because, when stressed, the mind can come to some very strange conclusions about situations, and it is easy to miss something or wrongly interpret a warning light.

At first during my training, I found myself trying to work problems based on instinct. Afterall, this is was what you'd do in a small piston, single pilot, isn't it?. After a while, I lost this bad habit. The training became relatively easy when I worked out what to do. For any emergency that the instructor gave me, (unless there are memory items concerned) the correct action is always....

"I have control. Please go to the checklist." OR "You have control, I will go to the checklist!"

The PNF then goes to the checklist and reads the title of the procedure. The other pilot confirms this is the correct procedure. After that the PNF reads EVERY WORD of that procedure, including any 'Notes'. At the end are those words,"CHECKLIST COMPLETE".

It is so important to establish control. The point of a multicrew is that one pilot is able to fly the aircraft, while the other works the problem. It is easy however, to end up with both pilots with their heads in the cockpit (looking at the faulty AP, or weather radar or whatever). This is a cardinal sin and will end in tragedy.

Single Pilot Ops

Above I have described what happens in the multicrew environment. However, single pilot operations are slightly different. However, as Pokey says, there are a lot of good habits that can be carried over to the single pilot operation. It just takes discipline.

Build your checklist in a format that is easily available in your cockpit and easy to read.

This is another important consideration. The old scrappy, dog-eard piece of paper is not a good checklist. Soon it will get so crappy that you won't bother using it.

Just as bad, is a checklist that is hugely long and drawn out. Same too for checklists with 'absoulutely everything' mentioned. This is unworkable. Instead of that, the checklist calls for say, "Nav Comms.....Set and Checked". The pilot then goes into a learned sequence (of about 5 nav/comms checks). Start at the top, check radios, navaids, AP settings etc..etc..)

We have our 'inflight checklists' on 8 laminated cards (about the size of a playing card). A single card represents an entire check (pretaxi checks, pretakeoff, post takeoff, cruise, initial approach, final approach, post landing, shutdown). And no card has more than 8 items on it. The cards are connected together into a 'miniture flip chart' format, which is velcroed to the dashboard in front of the pilot not flying. As each checklist is used, the next one is flipped over. That helps to confirm whether you did that check or not.

When I was flying 300CB, I did a similar thing for that aircraft, only I kept the checklist in my kneeboard.

Last of all, I concur. Use the checklist 100% of the time. If single pilot, find a way that works for you and stick to it. I can recall countless times that the checklists have saved me from embarrasment, and possibly worse.

Joker

Tip: When reading fuel, get into the habit of actually saying the quantity. Don't just say, "Fuel.....Sufficient or Good" I used to love it with students in the 300CB when I would turn the battery switch off, and hear the student say, "Fuel...Good" when actually the guage was reading 0!!!

March 13, 2006

Tip: When reading fuel, get into the habit of actually saying the quantity. Don't just say, "Fuel.....Sufficient or Good" I used to love it with students in the 300CB when I would turn the battery switch off, and hear the student say, "Fuel...Good" when actually the guage was reading 0!!!

Thank you Joker for your valuable input on this "often overlooked", but verry important subject,,AND as i said in the beginning "controversial"

can i add one thing to your "tip" tho? especially in a "smaller" aircraft,,,,, Always physically check the fuel level/quantity yourself. ! ( if i were yer student , i would have replied "i dipped the tank, the gage must be in-op,,, we need to get us another helicopter) ummm hit the starter button----hit the master 1st tho !

flingwing206 · March 14, 2006

i totally agree Fling, and yes he was fired.

If he was fired for using a checklist, then that was the best thing that could have happened to him. I fly ENG, and 30 seconds on the startup is NEVER going to make a difference, even in the life-and-death world of TV "news". You don't want to work for anyone who thinks so.

However, I suspect that perhaps there was a bit more to this story.

Anyway, great follow-up, good info!

HH60Pilot · March 14, 2006

Two ways to use checklists
There appears to be two different ways that a checklist can be used. The first way is to use a checklist as a set of instructions that lead you to each item which you check. The second method is for the pilot to first check each item from memory and then to use a checklist as a true double check. This reaffirms that each item is ready for flight. Most of the light plane pilots that I have observed use the first method. I would like to suggest that the second method is the better one to use for your normal, everyday checklists. This is the method used by all airline pilots. The first method - using it as a list of instructions - does have a place in your flying operation. Ill address its proper use later.

Normal checklists and Emergency checklists
There are two kinds of checklists. The first can be described as normal checklists. They include the before start, after start, taxi, before takeoff, cruise, before landing, after landing and secure aircraft checklists. These are used every time you fly and should be committed to memory. The second are grouped together as emergency checklists and include the engine failure, engine fire, cabin fire, hydraulic system failure, landing gear does not extend checklists. They are rarely used and should not be memorized.

Each checklist, both normal and emergency is made up of two parts, a challenge and a response. For any normal checklist, the pilot first completes all preflight checks from memory. Next, he should read each challenge item and check that the item is correctly positioned according to the response part of the checklist. This is the way that the double check happens.

Use your passenger or co-pilot to read aloud the checklist
If you have a passenger or a co-pilot in the right seat, you should bring him into this process. After you have accomplished all items from memory, ask him to read the challenge and to check that your response is the correct one. This is considered to be so important that it is considered incorrect to use any words or phrases except those as noted exactly by the checklist. I also reach out and physically touch each item as I respond to the challenge.

If the reading of the checklist is interrupted in any manner, for example, by a passenger or an ATC radio call, it should be restarted again from the beginning. This method of using the normal checklist assures that a true and complete double check happens. This is the very best way to use a checklist.

The order of the items appearing on the normal checklist should reflect some order of flow to bring an organized, easily accomplished from memory, check. This can be a left to right flow or a clockwise flow or a counter clockwise flow. Your personal preference should be applied to this choice of flow.
A correct response is far more important than a quick one.

The emergency checklist should be utilized as you would use a set of instructions. First, you read the items, both the challenge and the response from the checklist, and then you complete the item as directed by the checklist. The philosophy guiding this policy is determined by the fact emergencies happen quite rarely. It would be a very difficult task to commit all the items for the many different emergency checklists to memory. In addition, very few emergencies call for instant responses.

The past 26 years experience of using checklists in the above described manner while flying the Lockheed Constellation, the Boeing 727, 707 and 747 in scheduled passenger service, has convinced me there is no better way. It has caused me to apply it to flying my Cessna 182 and Aeronca 7AC. It is the only system of using checklists that I use.

Most pilots that I have observed in the world of general aviation utilize their normal checklists incorrectly. Most use them as instructional lists by first reading the item and then checking that it has been accomplished. Therefore, no true double check has happened. I would suggest that the method of first setting up the aircraft systems from memory and then accomplishing a checklist be adopted.
In addition, I have observed that many pilots use no checklist!
When asked most will say they do it from memory or their aircraft is so simple that no checklist is needed.

I have also observed that the checklists supplied by the manufacturer have some serious drawbacks to their regular use. These drawbacks include the fact the checklist is usually printed as pages in a manual and is rarely convenient to use in a cramped, poorly lit cockpit. Frequently, they are not specific enough to the electronic equipment installed or the auto-pilot/flight director equipment.

Professional pilots use checklists 100% of the time!
To make the use of your checklist more palatable and more likely to be used on a regular basis, I would suggest that you personalize your normal checklists. Build your checklist in a format that is easily available in your cockpit and easy to read. It should reflect your specific use of the equipment that is currently installed and your preference regarding flow. If you do these two very basic items, you will enjoy safer flying by utilizing checklists the way the professionals use checklists - 100% of the time! "

Two ways to use checklists...the right way and the wrong way.

While I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I have to disagree with your method of using checklists and with much of what you have said above.

First, in dealing with "Normal Procedures" and "Emergency Procendures" checklists. Running the normal procedures checklists should be done by following the checklist. Depending on the emergency, the checklist is either committed to memory or not. In the Air Force emergency procedures that are committed to memory are referred to as BOLDFACE ITEMS and aircrew are tested on them monthly. If you do not pass your test, you do not fly and you have some serious explaining to do. The boldface items are ones that are deemed to required immediate action and taking time to refer to the checklist could put the aircraft and aircrew into further jeopardy. Examples of BOLDFACE ITEMS are engine failure, engine fire, tail rotor drive system failure, APU fire, and others depending on the aircraft that you are flying. Not all items in the checklist were always BOLDFACE ITEMS, sometimes it was just the first couple of items that were required to be memorized, and then the remainder of the items were read from the checklist. An example from T.O. 1H-3CE-1-CL-1 is as follows:

SINGLE ENGINE FAILURE

1. THROTTLES-MAXIMUM.

2. GEAR-AS REQUIRED.

3. Gross Weight-REDUCE AS NECESSARY.

4. Accomplist ENGINE SHUTDOWN or RESTART checklist.

Second, recommending that a person restarts a checklist if a call from ATC interrupts the checklist seems like a waste of time. Of course, if the person was following the checklist to begin with instead of doing it from memory, maybe they wouldn't have to worry about missing a step and needing to start all over again.

Third, I'm not 100% in agreement with you telling people to design their own checklist in their preference regarding flow. Certain checklists may require that specific steps be performed in a specific sequence and may not have a damn thing to do with ease of flow for a specific pilot. Granted, you may need to add additional steps for specific avionics installed in your particular aircraft, but I wouldn't recommend that one changes the order of the steps as published by the aircraft manufactuer. I couldn't check the SAS in the H-60 if I didn't first start the APU, no matter what I thought the flow of items should be.

The past 27 years experience of using checklists in the above described manner while flying the Lockheed T-33, Cessna T-37, Northrop T-38, Boeing T-43, McDonnell Douglas F-4, Cessna T-41, Hughes TH-55, Bell UH-1H, Sikorsky HH-3E and HH-60G in the United States Air Force, has convinced me there is no better way. It has caused me to apply it to flying my Cessna 150 (when I owned one) and all other civilian aircraft that I currently fly. It is the only system of using checklists that I use as it was used by my first civilian instructor when I learned to fly at the age of 17. Using the checklist in this manner was reaffirmed during my 23 years of service (18 as a rated officer) with the Air Force.

While I am happy that your system seems to work for you, I have a feeling that if it is the absolute best way of using checklists, the United States Air Force (and all other branches of the service for that matter) would have adopted it many, many years ago.

Just my two-cents...Doug

March 14, 2006

just my 2 cents too

1) if you read who wrote that post , you will have noticed that it was written by a friend of mine who happens to be a retired 747 captain & i stated also that i didnt agree w/ ALL of it.

2) it is your right to disagree

The reason i started this thread to begin with was to share our thoughts, knowledge, & maybe learn something about the way everyone "reads" / "uses" the checklist----AND to notice how the fellow pilots that we share the skies with are using theirs.

I dont take any of your words in offense, but lighten up a bit & share, and maybe you will learn something about other people.

I fly regularly w/ a guy that is soo slow at going thru his checlkist, and is a "reader", i'de swear by the time he turns on the master ( according to the checklist ) & by time ready to hit starter button? the battery needs to be recharged----(an exaggeration of korse )! BUT? maybe HE needs a "personal" checklist?

And about "tailoring" your checklist ? I've seen guys reading "avionics master ---ON" they switch on the radio & think they are done ! (ship didnt have an avionics master)

BTW? do a search on aircraft checlists on the 'net--------there are millions of aftermarket checklilsts ! THAT was one of my original "gripes/questions" "who" wrote YOUR checklist & IF it has had any "additions" are they legitimit?

Flying Pig · March 14, 2006

I was an occassional checklist user myself until I did my Instrument rating. After a few missed approaches because of trying to memorize them (paying for an extra hour here and there) I made a practice of using them.

I figure if the military and airline guys use them religiously, then I should. Just like trying to communicate with ATC the way they do.

Suggesting Emergency Procedures Checklists should not be memorized? Those are the ones you need to memorize!

Scarab · March 15, 2006

I only fly civilian personal.

However I have to agree with fling. I'd rather discover I missed something 1 minute before take off, rather than 1 minute after. I find having a passanger read aloud the list relaxes them and also makes them feel more like they are part of the operation. Very cool thing for younger passengers. The Robbie does have some spots that require memory work but the list is right there on the knee board or in the hands of my 'copilot'

I rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than vice versa.

joker · March 15, 2006

Suggesting Emergency Procedures Checklists should not be memorized? Those are the ones you need to memorize!

If I may address this one as I think it is crystal clear....IT DEPENDS on the aircraft.

Take the two aircraft that I am mostly familiar with, the 300CB and S76

300CB pilots - Know the 8 pages of emergency procedures listed in chapter 3 of your RFM. If you can't fire off the 7 steps of the Engine Failure - Above 450feet procedure to your instructor or an examiner on the ground, how do you think you're going to fare in the air? Same goes for the other procedures.

S76 pilots - Know by heart 21 the 'Boldface' or 'Memory' items, but don't waste your time trying to learn all 17 pages and 85 procedures listed in your Emergency Checklist!

Be familiar and understand the procedures, yes of course. Learn them, no. Thinking you know them (when actually you don't) could be dangerous. Some of the procdures are so particular in their order, that trying to do it from your head is asking for trouble. Anyway, you'll be refering to the checklist if you get these malfunctions anyway.

The point I'm making is that it depends on the aircraft.

BTW? do a search on aircraft checlists on the 'net--------there are millions of aftermarket checklilsts ! THAT was one of my original "gripes/questions" "who" wrote YOUR checklist & IF it has had any "additions" are they legitimit?

A checklist should contain all the items that are in the Approved RFM, and in the same order.

Some might remember when Robinson made some changes to the R22 startup checklist. I got into a debate with an instructor who wanted to do things the 'old way'. I said from an liability point of view, any deviation from the manufacturers approved method is asking for it. In the end he agreed.

So ensure that your checklist at least conforms to the RFM/POH. However, I don't think there is anything wrong with adding items to suite your operation, or even grouping items under 1 heading.

For example, in the 300CB there are 4 warining lights in a row next to each other. (Low Volts, Fuel Low, MRGB Temp/Press, and TRGB Chip). These are listed in Schweizer's POH as four seperate items.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your own checklist including these as a single item

i.e. Warning Lights (4)......Check

Third, I'm not 100% in agreement with you telling people to design their own checklist in their preference regarding flow.

What about checklists which are not in the RFM / POH? For example the Cruise Checks. Then I would have to design my own (including any cruise considerations from the RFM), and I would do it in a logical flow.

So as you can see, I take a middle ground here. It all depends on the aircraft.

Joker

March 15, 2006

It just gets better ! I am sure all of us have our aircraft inspected by a Licensed A&P and IA, of korse ! What do "they" use for a checklist? FAR 43.15©(1)

There are "endless" possibilities to this "checklist" discussion are we having fun yet?

flingwing206 · March 16, 2006

There are "endless" possibilities to this "checklist" discussion are we having fun yet?

You are, anyway!

troops23 · March 16, 2006

For me, depends on when and where I'm starting the machine. If I'm firing up for the first time that day, then I will go through the whole checklist. If I land and shut down, and I'm only down for a short while, then I'll do a "field start". If somone else has flown the machine, then I will go through the whole checklist. But like I said, depends on the when and where.

vertrefadmin · March 17, 2006

If your checklist method prevents an accident or incident from happening then you are gaining the benefit of the checklist and your method is sound. If your checklist method (or lack of) is assisting the potential of an accident then that is the wrong method.