SSH In Texas

Triple Play · March 27, 2006

...have any experience flying or going to school with SSH in Texas? I have done the research with my son who wants to be a helo pilot. We are in Houston and have been to SSH a few times here. Very nice facility, very professional folks.

Yes, I’ve read the threads on SSH, but most seem to be about financing and we have our own secured, but will look at the SSH “plan.”

Specifically, the GM down here is from the New Braunfels, Texas, anyone have anything positive or negative to say about him or the organization here?

It seems to me that according to the threads, some offices are run well, some are not. Anyone care to comment?

Is it possible that the offices are run some what autonomously and the success hedges on the talents of the General Manager? Any truth to this?

Please reply if you have some info. 60 days ago I couldn’t spell helicopter and I just want to do the right thing for my son.

Thanks for reading this and replying if you have some constructive advice.

PhotoFlyer · March 27, 2006

Check out this thread for information about the New Braunfels location.

Have you looked at other schools yet? There are quite a few: Helicopter Services, Sky Helicopters, Summit Helicopters, Rocky Point Aviation, CFC Aviation, and others that I am forgetting. If you are looking for a school with a fully developed curriculum, like SSH, also consider Helicopter Adventures (HAI) in Florida and California, Hillsboro in Oregon, Vortex Helicopters in Mississippi, Mazzei Flying Service in California, and (again) others that I am forgetting.

This link is a PDF, by the FAA, that lists all of the part 141 schools. It tells you what all the codes mean, but if it has "RH" then it is a helicopter school.

This link is to another FAA document, the "Student Pilot Guide."

Not trying to point you away from SSH, as some other will undoubtedly do, but you should look into other schools before you settle on a particular place.

Now a note to the SSH detractors...don't crud up this thread.

jehh · March 27, 2006

Just to follow up with what PhotoFlyer said...

Be sure to look at other schools. Helicopter Adventures is a good school with a long history in the business. Vortex also gets positive things said about it.

That being said, don't take anyone's word for it, you need to visit each school.

One thing to consider, have your son just plan to get his private, then go on to the other ratings. Pay as you go, and don't fear changing instructors, or even schools if it isn't working. This isn't college, there is no real penalty for changing mid course, other than perhaps an hour or so of instruction to help your new CFI catch up on where your son is at.

I've worked for 3 flight schools, trained at 5. Every one is different. BTW, one I worked for was SSH, and while it was a good place to be a CFI, I cannot recommend it to students due to their harsh pay up front policies. The penalties for leaving are just too high. And that is all I'll say about that!

I can recommend either Sky or Summit Helicopters in Dallas, TX (Actually Garland & Addison, TX). Both are good places run by honest people. I've flown with both, worked for one, and neither will steer you wrong.

mechanic · March 27, 2006

Hi Triple Play,

IF, you did not know there are two other options in the Hooks Field area besides SSH. I am a student at Helicopter Services Inc. Helicopter Services has been good to me thus far and I prepaid for my course. The only thing I really don't like is the R44 is the only ship used for instrument training. Maint has not been a problem in my training, just a few times I have caught them with the heli's in for 100 hrs maint. Helicopter Services has been in buisness since 79'. The instructors have 300-1000 hrs flight time. The Chief has approx 3000 hrs flight time. They train both part 61 and 141 offer VA benefits and were with UVSC.

The other option is a newer buisness called Anythings Possible Aviation. The owner is a very nice likable person. I work with his 3rd cousin. The only thing that they can't offer yet is the instrument course. He has both R22 and R44 available. Trains under part 61 only and is with UVSC.

UVSC homepage

Anythings Possible Aviation

Helicopter Services Inc

If you have any questions just ask!

Regards

Vaqueroaero · March 27, 2006

How many other schools have you visited? If the answer is none then why not? Why the hurry?

A $70,000 investment demands a lot of careful consideration as to where the best place is for it to grow. Has your son taken a trial flight, and I don't mean sat in one while he's taken on a joy ride. He needs to go and do a demo flight with an instructor before signing on the line.

Do not be rushed into making a decision, regardless of how well the school is run.

Good luck.

Triple Play · March 27, 2006

Hi Triple Play,

IF, you did not know there are two other options in the Hooks Field area besides SSH. I am a student at Helicopter Services Inc. Helicopter Services has been good to me thus far and I prepaid for my course. The only thing I really don't like is the R44 is the only ship used for instrument training. Maint has not been a problem in my training, just a few times I have caught them with the heli's in for 100 hrs maint. Helicopter Services has been in buisness since 79'. The instructors have 300-1000 hrs flight time. The Chief has approx 3000 hrs flight time. They train both part 61 and 141 offer VA benefits and were with UVSC.

The other option is a newer buisness called Anythings Possible Aviation. The owner is a very nice likable person. I work with his 3rd cousin. The only thing that they can't offer yet is the instrument course. He has both R22 and R44 available. Trains under part 61 only and is with UVSC.
UVSC homepage

Anythings Possible Aviation

Helicopter Services Inc
If you have any questions just ask!

Regards

Thanks for the reply...My son has about 6 hours of "demo" type flights now...Anything Possible...Great guy...My son has flown with him twice, but there's just one of him to go around, right?...I'd like to keep him in Houstpn...We flew at Heli Services, but the CFI was not a real like able guy...Maybe I need to talk to Robyn about someone he would get along with better...Thank so much for your help..

jehh · March 27, 2006

A $70,000 investment demands a lot of careful consideration as to where the best place is for it to grow. Has your son taken a trial flight, and I don't mean sat in one while he's taken on a joy ride. He needs to go and do a demo flight with an instructor before signing on the line.

To heck with a demo flight, he needs to go get 5 hours of real dual instruction, learn to hover, and see how that goes. If it goes well, the CFI is good, you feel comfortable with the school, then look at the rest of it.

What amazes me is how many people take a 30 minute demo flight, then sign up for a $50K to $70K loan. I did 22 hours of dual, the soloed, before I made the commitment, so don't rush, you never know what you'll find. Besides, maybe it isn't a huge loan, perhaps you'll find that buying a helicopter makes more sense. It did to me, and because I did, I have no loan to pay back. Something to be said for that.

mechanic · March 27, 2006

Triple Play,

Was the guy at HSI your son flew with name Aaron?

Regards

jehh · March 27, 2006

We flew at Heli Services, but the CFI was not a real like able guy...Maybe I need to talk to Robyn about someone he would get along with better...Thank so much for your help..

Rule #1, your CFI is the one teaching you how to fly, not the school.

A great CFI can provide great instruction, even in a lousy school. The reverse is not true. Never be afraid to said, "I'd like to try flying with someone else".

(edit) pardon the multiple replies, just trying to be helpful...

Ace · March 27, 2006

To heck with a demo flight, he needs to go get 5 hours of real dual instruction, learn to hover, and see how that goes. If it goes well, the CFI is good, you feel comfortable with the school, then look at the rest of it.

What amazes me is how many people take a 30 minute demo flight, then sign up for a $50K to $70K loan. I did 22 hours of dual, the soloed, before I made the commitment, so don't rush, you never know what you'll find. Besides, maybe it isn't a huge loan, perhaps you'll find that buying a helicopter makes more sense. It did to me, and because I did, I have no loan to pay back. Something to be said for that.

Unfortunately, I don't think most people want to or can shell out close to $5,000.00 deciding if flying is for them. And most people can't go out and purchase a helicopter to do their training in, pay for maintenance, fuel, instructor time, etc. You obviously sound like you have lots of money to spend, unlike the rest of us. Not to take anything from your posts, it just doesn't sound feesible to do for the average blue collar worker, which is what most people are that start training.

fry · March 27, 2006

This thread has pretty well covered SSH's cons (there are no pros) so I won't "crud" it up by disgusting (no typo) them further.

As a pilot and a father who has financed three sons career ambitions I can offer these observations:

It will probably cost more than the $50k most schools advertise for your son to go from pedestrian to CFI... that amount covers about 200 flight hours and many students take longer than that. And once there he has achieved the CFI rating he has acquired only the minimum entrance requirement to the occupation. If at that point, or subsequently during what amounts to an apprenticeship while he acquires another 400 to 800 hours, he decides that the helo pilot lifestyle is not really for him he, or you, will have paid a lot of money for, basically, a private pilot's license.

Occupationally speaking, the CFI rating is good for only one thing...to begin a career as a paycheck-generating pilot.

My point is that you will not know, until after there has been a significant commitment of money, if your son has the aptitude or motivation to actually earn a living as a pilot. And while flying is terrific, and seems preferable to 9 to 5 behind a desk to a young man starting out, the reality is that doing it for a living is much like driving a truck...and doesn't pay much differently.

My personal opinion is that learning to fly entails mastering a whole body of knowledge...aerodynamics, a/c systems, navigation, etc...and if he can do that he can succeed in an educational program that would afford him more career options (i.e., college). Basically, he can get more bang for his educational investment buck.

One more personal opinion. He might consider getting a fixed wing private pilot license before pursing a helicopter rating. The cost is significantly less and much of the body of knowledge I mentioned above can be used in helo flight training later if he still wants to pursue that.

Go slow and keep your options open. Young mens' attention spans tend to be short.

jehh · March 27, 2006

Unfortunately, I don't think most people want to or can shell out close to $5,000.00 deciding if flying is for them. And most people can't go out and purchase a helicopter to do their training in, pay for maintenance, fuel, instructor time, etc. You obviously sound like you have lots of money to spend, unlike the rest of us. Not to take anything from your posts, it just doesn't sound feesible to do for the average blue collar worker, which is what most people are that start training.

I don't have that much money, I was able to borrow some money from family, I leased the helicopter to the flight school, and the income from it paid the payments on it, as well as all the expenses. I ended up about breakeven on the deal, but got almost 300 hours of flying out of it, with nothing out of pocket.

5 hours of dual should cost about $1,250, an amount worth investing before signing a loan for $50K or more.

clay · March 27, 2006

im living in houston and im going to a school down south of houston towards angleton, its called salaika aviation. everyone on here seems to forget about it because its a little school, but i have to say that out of all the schools i've looked at in texas, i liked them best. they all have there ups and downs, but salaika is the one i went with. they fly in the enstrom f28a and have 2 right now, building up the 3rd. it will be a turbo charged model. anyway, the big thing i liked was that they have been open since 1979 and have never had any fatal crashes or incidents. i dont know of any other school in the area that can say that. Tim salaika is the owner and he is also a DPE, which means you dont have to wait to get your check ride as long, and the a&p mech for the ships. if you look at the website, www.salaikaaviation.com i think you will be impressed by the set up. as far as price, im actually doing my full commercial rating and coming out at the same as HSI, and WAY less than SSH. the enstrom is bigger, more stable, and alot more usfull load than the robbie's too. if you have any other questions about it, feel free to email me at Clayvoss@hotmail.com . but i have to say that you should definatly look at this school if your wanting to stay in the houston area.

clay

Triple Play · March 28, 2006

Hi Triple Play,

IF, you did not know there are two other options in the Hooks Field area besides SSH. I am a student at Helicopter Services Inc. Helicopter Services has been good to me thus far and I prepaid for my course. The only thing I really don't like is the R44 is the only ship used for instrument training. Maint has not been a problem in my training, just a few times I have caught them with the heli's in for 100 hrs maint. Helicopter Services has been in buisness since 79'. The instructors have 300-1000 hrs flight time. The Chief has approx 3000 hrs flight time. They train both part 61 and 141 offer VA benefits and were with UVSC.

The other option is a newer buisness called Anythings Possible Aviation. The owner is a very nice likable person. I work with his 3rd cousin. The only thing that they can't offer yet is the instrument course. He has both R22 and R44 available. Trains under part 61 only and is with UVSC.
UVSC homepage

Anythings Possible Aviation

Helicopter Services Inc
If you have any questions just ask!

Regards

Thanks for the reply...I appreciate it...Some questions for you, please...

Why do they do the instrument rating in a 44 and not a 22?

Can you briefly explain the part 61 & 141? SSH does not?

I know HeliServices has an excellent reputation, but I hear they don’t have many students. How do you expect to go from CFI to that upper range of hours with out anyone to train?

Can you do the UVSC here, but on line right?

Thanks Again...

Check out this thread for information about the New Braunfels location.

Have you looked at other schools yet? There are quite a few: Helicopter Services, Sky Helicopters, Summit Helicopters, Rocky Point Aviation, CFC Aviation, and others that I am forgetting. If you are looking for a school with a fully developed curriculum, like SSH, also consider Helicopter Adventures (HAI) in Florida and California, Hillsboro in Oregon, Vortex Helicopters in Mississippi, Mazzei Flying Service in California, and (again) others that I am forgetting.

This link is a PDF, by the FAA, that lists all of the part 141 schools. It tells you what all the codes mean, but if it has "RH" then it is a helicopter school.

This link is to another FAA document, the "Student Pilot Guide."

Not trying to point you away from SSH, as some other will undoubtedly do, but you should look into other schools before you settle on a particular place.

Now a note to the SSH detractors...don't crud up this thread.

Thanks for the help...I would like my son to stay in Houston to go to school...So some of your options will not help us. I am answering and asking some questions based on everyone’s feed back so if you see part of the thread where you can help, please do.

Thanks again for your input and time...

Hi Triple Play,

IF, you did not know there are two other options in the Hooks Field area besides SSH. I am a student at Helicopter Services Inc. Helicopter Services has been good to me thus far and I prepaid for my course. The only thing I really don't like is the R44 is the only ship used for instrument training. Maint has not been a problem in my training, just a few times I have caught them with the heli's in for 100 hrs maint. Helicopter Services has been in buisness since 79'. The instructors have 300-1000 hrs flight time. The Chief has approx 3000 hrs flight time. They train both part 61 and 141 offer VA benefits and were with UVSC.

The other option is a newer buisness called Anythings Possible Aviation. The owner is a very nice likable person. I work with his 3rd cousin. The only thing that they can't offer yet is the instrument course. He has both R22 and R44 available. Trains under part 61 only and is with UVSC.
UVSC homepage

Anythings Possible Aviation

Helicopter Services Inc
If you have any questions just ask!

Regards

Thanks for the reply...I appreciate it...Some questions for you, please...

Why do they do the instrument rating in a 44 and not a 22?

Can you briefly explain the part 61 & 141? SSH does not have this?

I know HeliServices has an excellent reputation, but I hear they don’t have many students. How do you expect to go from CFI to that upper range of hours with out anyone to train?

Can you do the UVSC here, but on line right?

Thank you again…

Triple Play,

Was the guy at HSI your son flew with name Aaron?

Regards

No, it was Ben and I scheduled my son to fly with someone else and get some more hours this week per some good advise from all of you... Thanks

This thread has pretty well covered SSH's cons (there are no pros) so I won't "crud" it up by disgusting (no typo) them further.

As a pilot and a father who has financed three sons career ambitions I can offer these observations:

It will probably cost more than the $50k most schools advertise for your son to go from pedestrian to CFI... that amount covers about 200 flight hours and many students take longer than that. And once there he has achieved the CFI rating he has acquired only the minimum entrance requirement to the occupation. If at that point, or subsequently during what amounts to an apprenticeship while he acquires another 400 to 800 hours, he decides that the helo pilot lifestyle is not really for him he, or you, will have paid a lot of money for, basically, a private pilot's license.

Occupationally speaking, the CFI rating is good for only one thing...to begin a career as a paycheck-generating pilot.

My point is that you will not know, until after there has been a significant commitment of money, if your son has the aptitude or motivation to actually earn a living as a pilot. And while flying is terrific, and seems preferable to 9 to 5 behind a desk to a young man starting out, the reality is that doing it for a living is much like driving a truck...and doesn't pay much differently.

My personal opinion is that learning to fly entails mastering a whole body of knowledge...aerodynamics, a/c systems, navigation, etc...and if he can do that he can succeed in an educational program that would afford him more career options (i.e., college). Basically, he can get more bang for his educational investment buck.

One more personal opinion. He might consider getting a fixed wing private pilot license before pursing a helicopter rating. The cost is significantly less and much of the body of knowledge I mentioned above can be used in helo flight training later if he still wants to pursue that.

Go slow and keep your options open. Young mens' attention spans tend to be short.

Fry,

Thanks for your input. It was valuable to me since you obviously have gone through my situation...

SSH offered to put my son in ground school class for the week at no charge to see what it's like...Very nice of them...He just got home from it...He was impressed by the instructor, I think he was more surprised at some folks in there that had no real clue as to what they were getting into after he shared some of the research we have done with a couple of students after class. Pity them, but it's not really any of our business.

I like your "private fixed wing solution." I actually had heard that idea from someone else and you have confirmed it. A definite viable option.

I guess the next thing I'm wrestling with is after he gets through school and he’s a CFI he'll have a tuff time getting to that "magic" 400-1000 hour threshold. If SSH goes by their plan (that is if nothing catastrophic happens to the whole organization, hint, hint) he should have plenty of students to train and build hours on their tab.

If he goes to a smaller school here, we either pay more to get the hours needed to be employable, does recruiting of students on his own, or I’m stuck paying for more. True?

I like your advise of keeping options open. I saw this a week or so ago, and explained to him that SSH financially would lock us in. We only have one shot at this. I'm definetly don't have anymore credit to burn.

I have all the SSH final paperwork. I guess it will be a long night reading the fine print and giving my attorney a long lunch to look at this.

Thanks Again...Any more constructive info from you or anyone else would be great.

mechanic · March 28, 2006

Triple Play,

HSI uses the R44 for Instrument Training because Robinson Helicopters no longer offers R22 Inst Trainers. My understanding is that there is a weight issue in the R22 IFR Training Config, ie reduced max seat weight per person, reduced fuel capacity, and would reduce overall flight time available per lesson. This is what I have heard anyway.

Part 61 is a general FAA training guideline so to speak.

Part 141 is a FAA approved training course outline with reduced training hours required per course. To recieve VA Benefits, the school must have part 141 cert and VA approval for each course offered. HSI has the PPL, CPL, CPL add, um don't remember if the CFI is 141?

HSI is not a pilot mill. They do pipeline patrols, tour/sightseeing flights, as well as other Part 135 commercial flights. Prior to 9/11 they trained a lot of Japanese students.

Well the hour building thing! That is the 1 million dollar question that every new pilot has to ask. You get hours just about anyway you can. Most people start as a CFI but, don't expect to work as a CFI at the school you trained at that. I know that SSH promised this in there seminar. Most people don't seem to work where they trained. You must be prepared to go to where the job is and more and more schools require 300 hrs TT flight time due to Pathfinder insurance. HSI is a 300 hr TT school for CFI. I know of 4 of HSI's CFI's that have moved on to the GOM this last year with approx 800-1100 hrs TT.

The UVSC deal is good, but the only thing I really don't like is the ground school is fixed wing based. I was told by UVSC that they would prob develope a heli ground school, but they have not done so yet. I think a lot more heli students would do it if they offered more heli info in the course. Anyway, you get to count your flight time towards a real degree, so you won't be wasting money.

Hope this helped

jehh · March 28, 2006

Why do they do the instrument rating in a 44 and not a 22?

I did my instrument in the R22, it works, but there is very little useful load in the aircraft to begin with. Many places are starting to move away from the R22 for instrument training, and Robinson won't sell an R22 equipped for it anymore.

I guess the next thing I'm wrestling with is after he gets through school and he’s a CFI he'll have a tuff time getting to that "magic" 400-1000 hour threshold. If SSH goes by their plan (that is if nothing catastrophic happens to the whole organization, hint, hint) he should have plenty of students to train and build hours on their tab.

There are plenty of CFI jobs out there, just look in the job section of this web site and of justhelicopters.com.

Now here is the trick, you have to be willing to move for the job. But that is true in all of aviation.

If he goes to a smaller school here, we either pay more to get the hours needed to be employable, does recruiting of students on his own, or I’m stuck paying for more. True?

Or he goes and gets a job in another city. If he is expecting to be able to stay in one place his whole career, both of you are in for a shock.

If you're restricting yourself to Houston, you're really limiting your options.

Triple Play · March 28, 2006

I did my instrument in the R22, it works, but there is very little useful load in the aircraft to begin with. Many places are starting to move away from the R22 for instrument training, and Robinson won't sell an R22 equipped for it anymore.
There are plenty of CFI jobs out there, just look in the job section of this web site and of justhelicopters.com.

Now here is the trick, you have to be willing to move for the job. But that is true in all of aviation.
Or he goes and gets a job in another city. If he is expecting to be able to stay in one place his whole career, both of you are in for a shock.

If you're restricting yourself to Houston, you're really limiting your options.

Thanks Jehh...I've talked to a couple of young CFI's that said they lived in a van in the parking lot for awhile...I respected both of these young men for chasing their dream. If it's good enough for them, then it shoud be good enough for my son. I cut his pacifier off a coupe of years ago...

Ok, when your attorney looks the contract over be sure to have him explain to you exactly how you are going to be charged. If your contract reads that 10% will be charged every month, I really think you should go elsewhere. Also see if there is a refund policy and fat contract cancellation fees. Ask your attorney what you can do to compromise with SSH on the contract. I imagine they will tell you to get lost...but go ahead and revise the contract as you feel is fair to both you and them...see what they say. Put some additional agreement terms such as: if you decide to pull your son out for whatever reason they will have to pay you back within 30-90 days in full...that they will only charge you the base "student" rate of $200/hr and not their proposed "commercial" rate of $285/hr.
Be creative, if you think they are providing a way to screw you over, revise it, barter with them on the contract. If this contract has absolutely no provisions to protect the students and they are unwilling to compromise on anything then they arent worth doing business with. Make them define the term "due diligence" in writing on the contract to be signed. If you see anything to this effect:

"The abovenamed understands that SSH may experience scheduling conflicts caused by lack of available personnel or due to either maintenance and/or mechanical failure of helicopters. In the even that SSH is unable to perform a scheduled training session the abovenamed will not be entitled to any form of compensation."

or:

"The release of liability contains and embodies the entire agreement of the parties hereto. No representations, inducements or agreement, oral or otherwise, between the parties not contained and/or embodied herein shall be of any force or effect. The same may not modify, change, or terminate in whole or in part, orally or in any manner other than by an agreement in writing duly signed by all parties hereto assigned."

These are considered "catch-all" provisions and may or may not have legal recourse attached to them depending on the conditions. Having these types of clauses in their contracts is precisely why SSH thinks it can do/say anything to get someone to sign a contract without themselves having to suffer consequences. In the contract world that particular ideal (which is properly called "fraud") does not fly because when misrepresentations are made BEFORE an agreement has been made, all prior representations said, written, or advertised is binding and can void the contract in its entirety even if the purchasing party agrees (upon the contracts provisions/clauses) that any prior representations have no force or effect. If lack of available personel/equipment or mechanical failures causes "lack of due diligence" in training, then that latter provision is also void and the student WILL be entitled compensation. In my case, I was getting cancelled flights for all sorts of reasons (about 50% of them), but it really all boiled down to one thing...SSH is, always has been, and always will be over-booked and under-staffed (instructors and helis).

These "catch-all" clauses are rarely upheld in court and primarily depends on the degree of consumer damage it causes or intends to cause. In SSH cases it is very obvious that these clauses intend to do considerable damage to the consumer and his rights and will be struck down by a judge. It is unfortunate for Jerry Airola that he will have to learn this the hard way. It might be unfortunate for all the students he has/is swindling as well.

Thanks Dslmtrcle...I guess I need to start a pot of coffee...I apppreciate your thoughts...And well taken...Thanks Again...Triple Play...

jehh · August 13, 2006

Triple Play, any updates on your decision? I'm curious as to what you finally decided...

Triple Play · August 14, 2006

Just an update..My son now has 65 hours with David Lewis at Anything's Possible Aviation in Houston...Great guy...Very thorough with my son. He just did a 6 hour solo up to Arkansas to observe how they do the rice field flying. David has challenged my son in a very professional way. David has exposed my son to some situations I don’t believe most students would experience. For example, he flew down to San Antonio to observe the 100 hour maintenace on the R-22. He got to “hang out” with some very experienced pilots. He is doing the same in Arkansas. He is ready for his check ride as soon as he gets back. If anyone is looking for a great instructor in Houston get in touch with David Lewis.