Silver State Helicopters lawsuit Witnesses

[xxxxxx]

To anyone who has witnessed the following statements (or variation of) during Silver State Helicopters employment opportunity seminars or anywhere else, please personal message me or email thesilverstatetruth@gmail.com with your contact information. If you know of ANY persons who can witness ANY of the following statements or actions, please inform them of this request immediately. Please specify exactly which statements, when, and where you witnessed them; any additional information is not needed at this time:

 

1. Airola: "Silver State Helicopters doesn't accept people into the program they can't hire” 2002-2006

 

2. Airola: “We do not train pilots to work for other companies” 2002-2006

 

3. Airola: “We have more work available than pilots to do the work” 2002-2006

 

4. Airola: “We have hired all but one of our graduates, that one wrecked a helicopter of ours” 2004-2006

 

5. Airola: “Our students are trained to become commercial pilots, through CFI, in 12-18 months.” 2002-2006

 

6. Anyone from SSH: "We will be a part 141 school soon"

 

7. Anyone from SSH: "We are a part 141 school"

 

8. Witnesses who vouch that SSH could not train a student within the advertised 12-18 months, extrapolation is relevant whether or not having stayed in the program the full 18 months.

 

9. Witnesses who vouch that SSH wrongfully accused a student of not attending class or scheduled flights. In accordance with their attendance policy, SSH should be able to provide a disciplinary statement signed by any student who misses a class or scheduled flight.

 

10. Witnesses who vouch that SSH alleged a students work schedule was prohibitive for their flight training progression, especially when this student's work-schedule was typical. SSH advertises: "nearly everyone enrolled in our program is a working adult...the sessions are designed to accommodate most every schedule"

 

11. Witnesses who vouch that SSH would, at times, impliment the infamous "deal-today, or no-deal at all" tactic on enrollees.

 

12. Witnesses who vouch that Silver State claimed it would transform training centers into commercial operations centers within a relatively short time-frame, while hiring the majority of its students as pilots in order to handle the excess of local helicopter work Silver State had supposedly acquired.

Edited November 25, 2006 by xxxxxx

[freefaller]

just wanted to say thanks for posting this, i was about to enroll with SSH until i heard a rumor about things like this.... im in the midwestern part of FL, any advice on a good school?

[amenra]

Are you closer to Orlando or Tampa?

 

There are several good schools in both directions. Just make sure you do the research to see which school can accomodate your goals in the time frame you want. Ie, do you want to fly for fun or employment; can they help you with financing thru grants, student loans and such; do they have the type of helicopter you want to learn in; do they have the student to instructor ratio that will allow you to fly on your time schedule.

[Bristol]

Tomlinson Aviation in Ormond Beach would be well worth the drive or move. Call and ask for Brian.

I train there and thing I am very luck to have them in my own backyard. Exceptional training atmosphere and a friendly expert staff. Just ask anyone that has trained there.

 

Bristol

Edited November 24, 2006 by Bristol

[Witch]

3. Airola: “We have more work available than pilots to do the work” 2002-2006

I remember something like that, mostly about cherry drying.

4. Airola: “We have hired all but one of our graduates, that one wrecked a helicopter of ours” 2004-2006

Something similar. Someone was practicing pinicals at high density altitutude and the helo wouldn't lift off, so they tried a running takeoff and experienced a rollover.

5. Airola: “Our students are trained to become commercial pilots, through CFI, in 12-18 months.” 2002-2006

Sounds fimalliar.

11. Witnesses who vouch that SSH would, at times, impliment the infamous "deal-today, or no-deal at all" tactic on enrollees.

All the paperwork was there to sign, and was starting to, but went for a ride instead. After the interview, he kept the paperwork that I had not signed. He denied enrollment for me.

12. ..., while hiring the majority of its students as pilots in order to handle the excess of local helicopter work Silver State had supposedly acquired.

Asked about the "contracts", but never got a good straightforward answer. Even the pilot was a little evasive about the "contracts". Hmmm

 

Later

Edited November 24, 2006 by Witch

[xxxxxx]

It has come to my attention that many people responding to this request do not want to provide their contact information in spite of various forms of potential retaliation by Silver State Helicopters and/or Jerry Airola.

 

I assure all witnesses who are currently in Silver States program that their contact information can and will be kept confidential between the Courts and I. If others not in the program do not want their identity divulged I can only provide assured protection if that person can give the Court a reason of how they would be threatened if their contact information is revealed to Silver State Helicopters and Jerry Airola.

 

You must provide at least your full name and working telephone number. I am forced to verify everyones contact information.

Edited November 26, 2006 by xxxxxx

[Jocko]

It has come to my attention that many people responding to this request do not want to provide their contact information in spite of various forms of potential retaliation by Silver State Helicopters and/or Jerry Airola.

 

I assure all witnesses who are currently in Silver States program that their contact information can and will be kept confidential between the Courts and I. If others not in the program do not want their identity divulged I can only provide assured protection if that person can give the Court a reason of how they would be threatened if their contact information is revealed to Silver State Helicopters and Jerry Airola.

 

You must provide at least your full name and working telephone number. I am forced to verify everyones contact information.

 

 

I find this an interesting statement from someone with the name of xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[xxxxxx]

If you contact me with your legitimate witness accounts, then you will have my contact info. Those who need to know who I am, already know.

[Tenacious T]

I find this an interesting statement from someone with the name of xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Ha! Good point Jocko!

[Jocko]

If you contact me with your legitimate witness accounts, then you will have my contact info. Those who need to know who I am, already know.

 

 

Kinda like "Big Brother" huh T?

[danter]

If you contact me with your legitimate witness accounts, then you will have my contact info. Those who need to know who I am, already know.

 

I worked at the Provo, Utah location. I had seen Jerry twice, never talked to him. The general manager and the chief flight ins. is where the problem was.

 

XXXXXXXXX,

 

Would you like to take on another school when you are done with ssh? I would like to get my money back from universal helicopters. In my opinion they are a bigger crook than ssh.

[xxxxxx]

I worked at the Provo, Utah location. I had seen Jerry twice, never talked to him. The general manager and the chief flight ins. is where the problem was.

 

Would you like to take on another school when you are done with ssh? I would like to get my money back from universal helicopters. In my opinion they are a bigger crook than ssh.

 

No, no, Im not going to deal with anymore of this bull-crap after Im done with SSH. I dont doubt you were screwed by Universal, but I do seriously doubt they are bigger crooks (in my opinion) than SSH.

 

As it stands, SSH's claimed statistics show that it has only graduated about 15% of all the students who have been in their program for the 12-18 month advertised duration.

 

To make a quick comparison: HAI, for the year of 2005, 88% of those who went in for a PPL completed their training, of those who continued 93% completed their CPL, of those who continued 96% completed their CFI. The representative from HAI said that the average time for their students to go from zero to CFI was between 12 and 15 months.

 

However, Silver State Helicopters claims they have the industries "highest success rate for passing students", according to several published articles.

Edited November 27, 2006 by xxxxxx

[oldcobrapilot]

As it stands, SSH's claimed statistics show that it has only graduated about 15% of all the students who have been in their program for the 12-18 month advertised duration.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I COULDN'T DO THAT. COULD YOU DO THAT? WHY CAN THEY DO IT? WHO ARE THOSE GUYS?"

 

BUTCH CASSIDY

[fry]

As it stands, SSH's claimed statistics show that it has only graduated about 15% of all the students who have been in their program for the 12-18 month advertised duration.

 

So it would appear...because of the dropouts prior to 12 months...that of all those who sign up and pay money to SSH the percentage that actually achieve a CFI ticket would be significantly less than 15%...maybe 10% or even 5%.

 

Maybe "xxxxxx" you're fighting a losing battle. Maybe there are just too many gullible folks out there willing to borrow $70k and hand it over to a salesman.

 

I would bet it even surprises the guy at SSH. He's got to be feeling like he's won the lottery. He rolls out some helicopters, makes an impassioned pitch about "living your dream"...maybe even sheds a tear...and they put themselves in debt so they can throw money at him. And they just keep coming; 9 out of 10 just throwing the money down a hole. Amazing.

 

And maybe he's not to blame. I mean, is it his fault the students don't do any research before signing up and paying over their cash? Do they consider that they are paying...at a premium price...for 200 flight hours but in addition they will still need 4 times that many hours to get a real flying job? Or that the flying jobs are in Louisiana or Alaska? Or that the career advancement for a pilot is pretty much limited and the pay tops out at about $60k?

 

The sad fact is, these folks are adults and it is their God-given right to make stupid decisions. You can't save 'em all.

 

Hey...if it's any consolation, Jerry got taken for a ride by his political consultants in his bid for Sheriff of LV. He never had a chance but they kept telling him he could win and he kept writing the checks. The first consultant felt so bad about taking advantage of the guy he took his money and went to Turkey after the primary. The second string came in to ride the gravy train through the November vote. Can't ya just hear 'em, "You've got him on the ropes Jerry, the people love ya. You can just make that out to cash".

 

Those who think they are immune from a con job are actually the most susceptible.

[xxxxxx]

Fry, I know you are correct in saying that I am fighting a losing battle. That was known from the beginning. I do know that what I have done in protesting against Silver State is for the right cause and that eventually (in some form) justice will prevail (Airola getting taken for $3.5mil, for example). I am sure additional justices will eventually bite him on the butt. It might not be through me, but someone will bring justice to him.

 

Yes, first it is Silver States (Airolas) fault for misleading; second it is the students fault for believing.

 

Airola is not at fault for the students lack of research, that is a personal problem of the students. But it is certainly Airola's fault for putting such an impression upon potential students as to force them to seek contradiction of his advertising claims. A person should never be put into a position where he cannot trust someones word. In short, that means no person should lie or be lied to. Airola specifically impresses upon his audience that he intends to hire all of his students (with few exceptions) and that positions for them would be available.

 

In an interview of Airola in September 2006, Airola stated:

 

“…you look at the 500, I think its 560 employees that I have, I also have 2200 that are in training right now…"

 

We all know now that Airola does not intent to hire any sizable portion of his graduates. He is using Silver States "we do not guarantee employment" statement found in the service agreement to counter any employment implications Airola repeatedly makes to thousands of people over the past several years.

Edited November 28, 2006 by xxxxxx

[Jocko]

And maybe he's not to blame. I mean, is it his fault the students don't do any research before signing up and paying over their cash? Do they consider that they are paying...at a premium price...for 200 flight hours but in addition they will still need 4 times that many hours to get a real flying job? Or that the flying jobs are in Louisiana or Alaska? Or that the career advancement for a pilot is pretty much limited and the pay tops out at about $60k?

 

The sad fact is, these folks are adults and it is their God-given right to make stupid decisions. You can't save 'em all.

 

 

That my friend was quite an interesting statement you made. I can only hope that you or a member of your family are never taken advantage of because of a lack of information or God forbid human trust. IMO that is the exact type of attitude that gives the crooks and con artists the justification for what they do. Thanks for the support.

[HH60Pilot]

Or that the career advancement for a pilot is pretty much limited and the pay tops out at about $60k?

 

Fry,

 

I'm not sure where you are looking at, but I just checked the top pay at the big helicopter operators and most of them were in the $80k to $90k range and more than one was topping $100k per year. Granted, you have to be a helicopter pilot to earn that pay, but you may want to recheck your facts and take a look at Helicopter Payscales.

 

And for career advancement, a quick look at JSFirm shows over 60 job postings for helicopter pilots on this one site alone. Many of the companies posting have multiple openings for the single posting on the site. Last I heard, Air-Log was some 30 pilots short and most of the big companies are in similar positions. So, at least to me, it seems that career advancements aren't an issue. Of course, you do have to be a professional helicopter pilot to have any career advancement in the field.

 

Doug

Edited November 29, 2006 by HH60Pilot

[danter]

Fry, I know you are correct in saying that I am fighting a losing battle. That was known from the beginning. I do know that what I have done in protesting against Silver State is for the right cause and that eventually (in some form) justice will prevail (Airola getting taken for $3.5mil, for example). I am sure additional justices will eventually bite him on the butt. It might not be through me, but someone will bring justice to him.

 

Yes, first it is Silver States (Airolas) fault for misleading; second it is the students fault for believing.

 

Airola is not at fault for the students lack of research, that is a personal problem of the students. But it is certainly Airola's fault for putting such an impression upon potential students as to force them to seek contradiction of his advertising claims. A person should never be put into a position where he cannot trust someones word. In short, that means no person should lie or be lied to. Airola specifically impresses upon his audience that he intends to hire all of his students (with few exceptions) and that positions for them would be available.

 

In an interview of Airola in September 2006, Airola stated:

 

“…you look at the 500, I think its 560 employees that I have, I also have 2200 that are in training right now…"

 

 

Universal calls this the long interview. They know once you walk in if they want to hire you or not, and everyone that trains with them gets taken advantage of.

 

 

We all know now that Airola does not intent to hire any sizable portion of his graduates. He is using Silver States "we do not guarantee employment" statement found in the service agreement to counter any employment implications Airola repeatedly makes to thousands of people over the past several years.

[fry]

Fry,

 

I'm not sure where you are looking at, but I just checked the top pay at the big helicopter operators and most of them were in the $80k to $90k range and more than one was topping $100k per year. Granted, you have to be a helicopter pilot to earn that pay, but you may want to recheck your facts and take a look at Helicopter Payscales.

 

And for career advancement, a quick look at JSFirm shows over 60 job postings for helicopter pilots on this one site alone. Many of the companies posting have multiple openings for the single posting on the site. Last I heard, Air-Log was some 30 pilots short and most of the big companies are in similar positions. So, at least to me, it seems that career advancements aren't an issue. Of course, you do have to be a professional helicopter pilot to have any career advancement in the field.

 

Doug

 

You're right of course, I overstated my case. A pilot with 25 years with one of the larger companies may be making nearly $100k a year. My point is really not that flying is not a viable occupation; of course it can be. My point is...and I believe you acknowlege this as well...most of those paying big bucks to flight school mills like SSH and Universal will never actually have a career in aviation.

 

And the irony is that if a student has the motivation needed to complete the training and acquire the additional hours needed to make the leap to a real flying job they don't need SSH. They can get better training less expensively at a smaller school. SSH is geared to those who need their hand held and it's exactly those folks who are the least likely to actually make it in the field.

[danter]

You are right Fry, most of the students that train at universal do not have a career in flying because universal only wants your money. They do not care if you have ratings or not. Their goal is to charge the student any way they can and as much as they can without you knowing within six months. They then hold the cfi and ii ratings in front of you saying give me more money and you can have it.

[HH60Pilot]

You're right of course, I overstated my case. A pilot with 25 years with one of the larger companies may be making nearly $100k a year. My point is really not that flying is not a viable occupation; of course it can be. My point is...and I believe you acknowlege this as well...most of those paying big bucks to flight school mills like SSH and Universal will never actually have a career in aviation.

 

And the irony is that if a student has the motivation needed to complete the training and acquire the additional hours needed to make the leap to a real flying job they don't need SSH. They can get better training less expensively at a smaller school. SSH is geared to those who need their hand held and it's exactly those folks who are the least likely to actually make it in the field.

 

Fry,

 

I do agree with you that many people paying money to SSH will never see a career as a professional helicopter pilot, the issue with Universal is something that I am unaware of and I will not comment on that.

 

You are correct in stating that a motivated student does not need a large school such as SSH to complete their training. Although, I have a feeling that it is only the highly motivated ones that are getting through SSH and getting their ratings.

 

Of course, we having to be careful in noting that there are those that pay money to learn to fly and for different reasons never realize a career as a pilot. How many people reading this post and have a college degree are actually working in a career that they earned their degree in? I majored in Music Education and have never been a music teacher. In fact, it's been years since I've done anything professionally as a musician. While we also talk about the cost of learning to fly and what a shame it is that some people pay a great deal of money and never have a career as a pilot, the cost of a college education can be quite pricey as well. My daughter is a freshman in college and with tuition, room & board, books, and other expenses, the total cost is $20,000 per year for a total of $80,000 for four years and there is no guarantee that she will ever have a career in her chosen major of Business Communications.

 

So, I agree that it is a bad deal that there are flight schools out there that are more interested in getting a students money than the success of the student, aviation (fixed-wing and rotary-wing) is not the only career path that people spend good money to get into and never have a career in.

 

Doug

[67november]

Doug

 

I know what you mean I'm an A&P, jockying a desk managing inventory

 

go figure

[fry]

My daughter is a freshman in college and with tuition, room & board, books, and other expenses, the total cost is $20,000 per year for a total of $80,000 for four years and there is no guarantee that she will ever have a career in her chosen major of Business Communications.

 

So, I agree that it is a bad deal that there are flight schools out there that are more interested in getting a students money than the success of the student, aviation (fixed-wing and rotary-wing) is not the only career path that people spend good money to get into and never have a career in.

 

 

Actually, most college graduates are not employed in exactly the field in which they received their degree. But the comparison of $80k, plus finance costs, spent on a Bachlor's Degree and the same amount (with even greater interest cost) spent on a CFI ticket is an apples to coconuts comparison. The number of doors that a college education will open...even a liberal arts degree...are many orders of magnitude greater than what will be available from vocational training in the narrow field of heli operation.

 

A CFI ticket is only good for one thing, as the minimum requirement to begin an apprenticeship toward a job as a working pilot. Anything less than achieving 1,000 some odd hours and that first real job is just a private pilot's license. And a PPL can be gotten for a whole lot less than $200k (training and finance cost).

[Jocko]

Fry, so what is your point?

 

other than your standard party line?????? Do you have anything new to say??????

 

 

 

just wondering

[HH60Pilot]

Actually, most college graduates are not employed in exactly the field in which they received their degree. But the comparison of $80k, plus finance costs, spent on a Bachlor's Degree and the same amount (with even greater interest cost) spent on a CFI ticket is an apples to coconuts comparison. The number of doors that a college education will open...even a liberal arts degree...are many orders of magnitude greater than what will be available from vocational training in the narrow field of heli operation.

 

A CFI ticket is only good for one thing, as the minimum requirement to begin an apprenticeship toward a job as a working pilot. Anything less than achieving 1,000 some odd hours and that first real job is just a private pilot's license. And a PPL can be gotten for a whole lot less than $200k (training and finance cost).

 

Don't forget that many people have to get student loans to pay for college and that will add a considerable amount to the total cost of a bachelor's degree. Especially when you factor in the additional expense incurred when many students take closer to five years to finish their four year degree.

 

I'm not 100% in agreement with your claiming of an apples to coconuts comparison. Many degrees are very specific in what they will do for you in opening doors in your career. I have a brother with a PhD in geology and it has served him greatly in his pursuit as a research scientist, but he could never be a band teacher with his degree. Just the same as my majoring in music would allow him to do his job. Someone with a degree in computer engineering would find it difficult to get a job as a registered nurse. While there are some college degrees that may do more in opening specific doors, having a degree in a specialized area is analogous to training for a specific vocation (ie helicopter pilot).

 

You are correct in your stating a CFI ticket is only good for one thing. However, your statement about it only getting you an apprenticeship is not true in all cases or all countries. The insurance companies in the United States have it set up that about the only job that you can get to start with is a CFI. However, other countries, such as Canada have higher requirements before one can instruct others.

 

The old requirement of 1,000 hours to get any job other than being a CFI is going away as well. I just lost a CFII that was working for me to a company on the gulf with a little over 700 hours total helicopter time. There are two operators on the gulf coast that have lowered their requirements to Part 135 minimums (500 hours, 100 hours cross country with 25 hours of that at night), and I have also seen other job postings recently with the 500 hour minimum as well.

 

Of course, if you are looking for a opportunity to use any degree you have to be a pilot and want to do something other than be a CFI to start with, then go fly for Uncle Sam. The military doesn't care what your degree is in, you need a degree to be an officer and you need to be an officer to be a pilot. In fact, if you don't have a degree, no worries as you can still fly as a Warrant Officer in the US Army, which is actually a better deal for those that want to fly a helicopter in the Army instead of flying a desk most of the time.

 

Doug