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Hey guys, I just came across a guy at my airport starting a new school. I believe he said it was going to be at the Salem Oregon airport KSLE. Anyways he said he was going to have an offer for his first 6 students of Private, Commercial and CFI for $40,000. I paid $50,000 for this. I would do it but Im done already. Just thought I would let you guys looking to train in Oregon know. I could find him at the local FBO if anybody wants more info just let me know! He did say he had an R22 on the way and was just waiting to finish setting up things with Sallie Mae.

 

Check it out, I will post more if I hear anything more.

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Hey guys, I just came across a guy at my airport starting a new school. I believe he said it was going to be at the Salem Oregon airport KSLE. Anyways he said he was going to have an offer for his first 6 students of Private, Commercial and CFI for $40,000. I paid $50,000 for this. I would do it but Im done already. Just thought I would let you guys looking to train in Oregon know. I could find him at the local FBO if anybody wants more info just let me know! He did say he had an R22 on the way and was just waiting to finish setting up things with Sallie Mae.

 

Check it out, I will post more if I hear anything more.

 

$40k...UPFRONT? And if so, how is the student to know the cash will be available to cover operating costs throughout their training?

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I believe he is a CFII. I said the same thing, "40k up front?Hmmmmm" He said no not up front, it is with Sallie Mae. Dont quote me, but when I did my training I used Sallie Mae and they gave my school disbursements that I scheduled and the school had to have a refund policy, so I ASSUME he has to have all of that with Sallie Mae. He said he wants to do 6 pilots and a good price just to get his name out there. Then it goes back to 50k.

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Hey guys, I just came across a guy at my airport starting a new school. I believe he said it was going to be at the Salem Oregon airport KSLE. Anyways he said he was going to have an offer for his first 6 students of Private, Commercial and CFI for $40,000. I paid $50,000 for this. I would do it but Im done already. Just thought I would let you guys looking to train in Oregon know. I could find him at the local FBO if anybody wants more info just let me know! He did say he had an R22 on the way and was just waiting to finish setting up things with Sallie Mae.

 

Check it out, I will post more if I hear anything more.

 

 

The helicopter is "on the way"...???

I wonder if he wants the 40K before or after the helicopter arrives?

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Hey there. I heard some might have questions for me. Go ahead and ask away!

 

I will answer a few that I saw so far. Yes it is 40k from 0 to CFI. It is just a promo for students ONLY! NO I dont require it up from, I will be offering financing with Sallie Mae so I do have a refund policy and it will be in FULL effect. Yes I know it sounds fishy that the R22 is on its way, but it really is. Nothing will be funded until it is here. I am having a site put together but in the meantime just post questions here and I will try to reply or email me at AlexanderAirServices@yahoo.com

 

Also I will be advertising here so look for the banner SOON!

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Hey there. I heard some might have questions for me. Go ahead and ask away!

 

I will answer a few that I saw so far. Yes it is 40k from 0 to CFI. It is just a promo for students ONLY! NO I dont require it up from, I will be offering financing with Sallie Mae so I do have a refund policy and it will be in FULL effect. Yes I know it sounds fishy that the R22 is on its way, but it really is. Nothing will be funded until it is here. I am having a site put together but in the meantime just post questions here and I will try to reply or email me at AlexanderAirServices@yahoo.com

 

Also I will be advertising here so look for the banner SOON!

 

How many hours of ground school and flight time does "40k" guarantee? How many flight hours per week do you anticipate having the resources to provide to get the students from "0 to CFI"? What is the maximum funds the students have at risk under the "refund policy"?

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Hey there. The way the classes will work is the ground is going to come first. We will do 2 weeks of ground lessons then start flying. I believe in knowing your airspace, WX minimums, hazards of flight, aerodynamics, emergency procedures etc.... before the bulk of your flying takes place. So those classes will be taught first off.

Each student gets approved with Sallie Mae, their money goes into a Sallie Mae account that the school is able to bill to. The school can bill for every HOUR, not a lump sum. At he end of every flight the student gets a sheet that shows total cost for the day, ground/hours flown and a remaining balance. If the student decides to quit, He/She calls Sallie Mae and tells them and the money goes back and they only owe what they spent with the school. That is how I did ALL of my training was with Sallie Mae and it worked GREAT! The R22 I have is FRESH out of 2200 overhaul so we will have plenty of time to fly, everyday and I DO mean EVERYDAY. 100 hour inspections are pre-paid annuals are paid for in advance. We are just looking to put out some quality students. I dont feel there is any need to take any more time than you have to to get your ratings done. When I did my training, I was putting in 5-8 hour days and I got done in no time. Thats what I want to pass on to my students. Its quality training at a great price for 6 people its that simple. Please continue to ask questions and also give me tips, what did you like about your school, what didnt you like? Thanks!

 

P.S. We only have room for 4 now 2 are funded and ready to go!

 

 

 

 

How many hours of ground school and flight time does "40k" guarantee? How many flight hours per week do you anticipate having the resources to provide to get the students from "0 to CFI"? What is the maximum funds the students have at risk under the "refund policy"?

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Honesty and integrity, thats what I like to see, thats what we all need a little more of in this industry. Good luck, god bless and be safe.

 

Guy

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Hey no problem, the 40k is to get them to their CFI, despite what bumps they may hit in the road! They will have excellent training so I dont worry about it.

 

Interesting plan...I've always thought that the best way for someone to get from 0 to CFI is to find three or four like-minded individuals and buy the aircraft and share the operating costs; hire an experienced CFI and have him train all four; and then, sell the aircraft. The problem of course is finding four folks with the wherewithal to buy the aircraft.

 

Anyway, just for the heck of it, let's run some numbers:

 

First some assumptions, the newly minted CFIs would need 200 hours each to begin their CFI careers and assuming a twelve month program the six students would have to fly four hours a week...every week. The trainer would fly twenty-four hours during the dual plus a like amount of ground time in addition to the ground school time...probably a full forty-hour week. Another assumption, the purchase of the aircraft is being financed. Let's say the loan payments would be...oh...$2,028 a month ($200k at 9% for 15 years...I have no idea if this kind of financing is even available but leased or purchased the cost would probably not be less than this).

 

According to RHC website the direct operating costs for an R22 run $44.10 per flight hour (probably optimistic...they are, after all, trying to sell aircraft). Insurance, according to RHC, will run $7,390 annually (probably a Pathfinder quote based on a private owner...a business will pay more). Also, there's the overhaul reserve; not an immediate out-of-pocket cash expense but a cost nonetheless because it's either paid at the time of overhaul or as a decrease in the aircraft value when the aircraft is sold. RHC estimates this at $99,283 or $45.13 per flight hour.

 

So, for a year of training six students the operating costs would be $138,808 (out-of-pocket cash for DOC, insurance & financing of $84,652 plus the deferred overhaul costs of $54,156). Now the overhead costs (these are probably what buried poor Doug at HSH) for classroom facilities, tie-down, supplies, utilities, etc, etc, etc...who knows. But count on them being higher than you anticipate and they'll be cash out-of-pocket every month. But let's assume $1,500 a month.

 

Total cost for one year...$156,808, leaving $83,192 to compensate the trainer (a full time job) and to cover the unknowns...which there will certainly be.

 

So, whattaya think?

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The R22 I have is FRESH out of 2200 overhaul so we will have plenty of time to fly, everyday and I DO mean EVERYDAY.

 

Your deal sounds great I wish it was around about 6 months ago. At the risk of sounding like a total kill joy there's one thing I should say. There is no way you will be able to fly EVERYDAY in Salem, OR. Maybe May thru September, but no dice this time of year. Not trying to discourage potential students, definitely get in on this program! It's just easy to believe you can fly everyday when your new to the game. I've heard the "everyday" before only to move to Oregon and be grounded weeks at a time.

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Sounds like a good deal to me. Most businesses are lucky to break even the first year. If the trainer is paid 40,000 a year that still leaves 43,000 for any unexpected expenses.

 

Ah, if it were only that simple...that $83k is only if everything goes without a hitch. Absolute perfection. One little setback...weather, maintenance, unpaid taxes, a hard landing, etc, etc...and that cash cushion disappears and the business is playing catch-up.

 

And here's another wrinkle they may already be experiencing...if the number of students drops from 6 to 4 the amount available for compensation and contingencies drops from $83k to $39k (revenue goes down 33% but expenses only go down 22%).

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fry, you've put together some good numbers and questions.

 

but what still eludes this community is YOUR pilot history.

I do tend to stay out of the threads you make multiple posts in, but there have been numerious requests for your pilot background and I too am interested in knowing what your avaition back ground entales.

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I really think you need to review your numbers. Insurance will run you almost double for flight training, non scheduled maintance, fuel, reserves for overhaul, bank financing will only amortize ten years.

 

Are you a Robinson dealer because if your not it will be very expensive for your parts. Are you going to try to sell time to your student to transport your robie for service? 50 hr/100hr/annuals?

 

Just some thoughts,

Good luck

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I really think you need to review your numbers. Insurance will run you almost double for flight training, non scheduled maintance, fuel, reserves for overhaul, bank financing will only amortize ten years.

 

Are you a Robinson dealer because if your not it will be very expensive for your parts. Are you going to try to sell time to your student to transport your robie for service? 50 hr/100hr/annuals?

 

Just some thoughts,

Good luck

Of course you are right, my numbers are wildly optimistic (but heaven forbid I should be too negative ;) ). My point was, "If it looks too good to be true (to the prospective student) there is probably some hidden risk".

 

Any startup business that expects to succeed must have some cash available besides what the students/customers will provide...especially if the company is going to offer its service below cost to attract the initial customers. But the business isn't going to tell prospective students where its investment cash is coming from (e.g., the owners, investors or the bank) or how much it has available. So the only protection the students have...from having advanced loan monies disappear if the school goes belly up...is to pay-as-they-fly. If the company still wants to offer flight training at a low price...to get established...on those terms, then it might be a good deal.

 

Silver State started that way. The initial group of students were offered 175 flight hours for less than $50k. Those that made it to CFI got a good deal. But...many are currently suing SSH alleging that they did not get the flight time they were promised because the company did not have the resources to service all the students they were taking on.

 

Just something to consider.

 

PS: thanks Dale

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I have the insurance already, you are right it is expensive! :o I have a mechanic who is a 10 minute flight away from the salem airport on a private strip and hanger that I have known for a very long time, he is doing all maintenance, 100 hours, annuals and unexpected repairs. Its not cheap by any means that for sure. Honestly at 40K, the company doesnt make a whole lot of profit but when we put out 6 happy students, they will each tell a student and so on and so on. :D

 

It seems a lot of people are negative about new schools, a new school can be the best opportunity for students, IF IT IS MANAGED RIGHT obviously. We have but a lot of thought, planning and not to mention a LOT of money into this to make sure everything is covered. So when that unexpected repair needs to be done, it gets done!

 

Somebody mentioned the Winters in Oregon. Yeah they are bad, but they are worse if you are a fixed wing pilot. Heli students dont have it too bad here, but the point is is that if its nice enough to fly, we will be flying and when it isnt we will be doing ground.

Edited by AlexanderAir
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