206' Sluts of the Industry??

[chop_top]

Hey all;

 

I hear day in an day out about these glorified taxi drivers of the gulf. Wow, thats some excitment. Although I think the industry of the giant oil company's should give a little more credit to the backbone of their industry. And I know people have read this time and time again. But yes, I am a student pilot and I would be happy with flying whatever. It seems to me that there is alot of negative talk on this site about GOM life, training and this that and the other. The whole point of all of our training was what? Yes, thats right the freedom of a little thing called flight. Its bad enough to have to get raped in training costs. Then to see people bitch about there horrible $50,000 plus jobs a year. (WTF) Before I started flight school, I was a farm boy in Iowa, feeding cows and all of the hill billy stuff. (yes, I did graduate from High School and College) What I am meaning with that is you are granted a job that pays a very well wage, that is a challenge and is what we all wanted at first FLYING. But insted I hear bitches and moans about washing there own "birds" and getting up early and the crew on the rigs are assholes. Its a job! Last time I checked nobody could walk down the road and ask someone to pay them $100,000 dollars for sitting on there ass. I just think that now a days peoples out look on life is so strange. I know that it is also a dangerous job but so is coal mineing. Just tell us younger folks about the good stuff too. Its to hard to hear all about how horrible flight school is and then how much your job sucks. When that student really enjoys flying.

 

But more GOM stuff. I know theirs a connection between what you have trained in and what you fly. But if these 206's are in such bad condition should a person try to look at a differant model. I'm going to eat my own words here but, I think that the Bell 430 is the cats ass. And was wondering if there is some sort of small light at the end of the tunnel. That if a person were to go to bell and take the 430 trainning they could possibly start a job in a 430? Don't get me wrong I will take a job flying to the arctic circle naked if I can get paid to pay off my flight school and eat. Even if its flying with a little yellow helicopter. But I was just wondering is it like flight school where everyone mostly learns in a robi? And then everyones first turbine job is in a 35 year old 206? Or if that bell school would help to get like a SIC job with 1,000 hours and very little turbine time? Thanks for your time

 

chop_top

Edited September 7, 2007 by chop_top

[Collective Down!]

In 1000 hours and 3 years (and counting) of instructing my favorite people to train were the ones that made a mid-life career change to flying. Sure they were a little harder to train sometimes but they had one unique quality that no 18 year old kid ever had.... They have already experienced the flourecent lights and confined cubicles of an office, or the tortures of other various working environments. But, they KNEW they want to fly. They're passion to fly is red hot, and they have always dreamed of doing it.

 

I have a good friend that has been a flight attendant at Delta since 1997 and now she wants to be a pilot... I have never seen so much drive and determination in an individual. I don't think I've ever heard a single complaint out of her mouth, and when she finally gets to fly the jet of her dreams, I'm sure that won't change. I have taken her along on several charter trips and let her fly dead-legs so she can get some exposure to bigger and better aircraft because she has a great attitude and a unbelievable work ethic....

 

Do you think I would extend a similar offer to some cocky kid that refers to "sluts of the industry." I doubt it. Yes, there are alot of complainers in this industry, we all know that. But that's no excuse to go off the hook and add to it. What's that old saying?... "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

 

This is a very very very small industry. If you piss someone off at one operation, good luck finding a good job after that. In fact, if you move from one 135 operator to another 135 operater, the second one is supposed to contact your previous employer and find out your history.

 

And by the way, no one OWES you a job when you get to a 1,000.0 hours!

 

 

 

http://www.heliflite.com/about/careers.html

 

There's a 430 job, but you'll have to be an SIC first of course.

[arismount]

To answer your question: No, you won't be able to get a 430 job if you spend the money for the Bell 430 school, with no other hours or experience. You'll only be getting about another $20K in debt. Bell might not even accept you for training without any turbine time, although money does talk.

 

It's understandable that you hear people complaining about the Gulf and you find that hard to understand. To you in your present situation, any job sounds like magic. All I'd say to you is, listen and try to learn. When you hear experienced helicopter pilots complaining about something, understand that there's a reason. Also try to understand that if you do ever get a job in the industry and get some experience and perspective, you might be complaining about the same things.

 

In short, you will be a far different person in 5 years than you are now. Something to think about.

 

Hey all;

 

I hear day in an day out about these glorified taxi drivers of the gulf. Wow, thats some excitment. Although I think the industry of the giant oil company's should give a little more credit to the backbone of their industry. And I know people have read this time and time again. But yes, I am a student pilot and I would be happy with flying whatever. It seems to me that there is alot of negative talk on this site about GOM life, training and this that and the other. The whole point of all of our training was what? Yes, thats right the freedom of a little thing called flight. Its bad enough to have to get raped in training costs. Then to see people bitch about there horrible $50,000 plus jobs a year. (WTF) Before I started flight school, I was a farm boy in Iowa, feeding cows and all of the hill billy stuff. (yes, I did graduate from High School and College) What I am meaning with that is you are granted a job that pays a very well wage, that is a challenge and is what we all wanted at first FLYING. But insted I hear bitches and moans about washing there own "birds" and getting up early and the crew on the rigs are assholes. Its a job! Last time I checked nobody could walk down the road and ask someone to pay them $100,000 dollars for sitting on there ass. I just think that now a days peoples out look on life is so strange. I know that it is also a dangerous job but so is coal mineing. Just tell us younger folks about the good stuff too. Its to hard to hear all about how horrible flight school is and then how much your job sucks. When that student really enjoys flying.

 

But more GOM stuff. I know theirs a connection between what you have trained in and what you fly. But if these 206's are in such bad condition should a person try to look at a differant model. I'm going to eat my own words here but, I think that the Bell 430 is the cats ass. And was wondering if there is some sort of small light at the end of the tunnel. That if a person were to go to bell and take the 430 trainning they could possibly start a job in a 430? Don't get me wrong I will take a job flying to the arctic circle naked if I can get paid to pay off my flight school and eat. Even if its flying with a little yellow helicopter. But I was just wondering is it like flight school where everyone mostly learns in a robi? And then everyones first turbine job is in a 35 year old 206? Or if that bell school would help to get like a SIC job with 1,000 hours and very little turbine time? Thanks for your time

 

chop_top

[Gomer Pylot]

There are no 430s in the GOM, and there likely won't be. There aren't many of them anywhere. They're too expensive to operate, and won't carry any more, realistically, than a 206L. There were once a few 222s in the GOM, but never very many, because they just weren't practical. It's a utility job, and the object is to carry as much as possible as cheaply as possible. The 206 does that. The airframes may be old, but in general, at least for the major companies, they've been well maintained, and are very reliable. There is the occasional engine failure, but when there are as many aircraft flying as many hours as there are, engine failures will sometimes occur.

[Wally]

I liked the GoM well enough to stay for 13 years. I'd probably still be there, except...

I wouldn't walk across the street for a "430 job" in preference to a "206 job", even if it was a "35 year old 206". Perhaps you'll feel the same after you've flown a 206. They're not my favorite airframe.

I would go to great lengths to talk to the folks that would go to the expense of fielding a 430. They most likely won't want a green kid pilot in any job that truly requires a 430.

You're getting close to an answer, though, with your question. The "green kid pilots" who have the drive to get advanced training do have an edge- but not enough to make up for a significant lack of work history. Potential employers operate on the priniciple that one does as one has done- if you've proven you can do the job, you're a good bet. Especially if you have a positive attitude and interview well.

You're also on the mark with your observation that one hears a lot of bitching, and not a lot of hoorahs. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and complainers complain- which makes the rest of us look good, as we just do the job, in a 206, 430, or whatever.

[FUSE]

Last time I checked nobody could walk down the road and ask someone to pay them $100,000 dollars for sitting on there ass.

 

LOL, goto USAJOBS.com, they are there all day long...

[palmfish]

LOL, goto USAJOBS.com, they are there all day long...

 

I stand up a couple times a day...

Edited September 7, 2007 by palmfish

[kodoz]

my favorite people to train were the ones that made a mid-life career change to flying. Sure they were a little harder to train sometimes but they had one unique quality that no 18 year old kid ever had.... They have already experienced the flourecent lights and confined cubicles of an office...but, they KNEW they want to fly.

 

this is so me. when i read about GOM jobs--even the shitty aspects--it still sounds like an adventure. don't have to do it forever, and i've put up with more worthless crap for no reason in an office for longer. it's all your attitude.

[slick1537]

Collective down, at 18 years old I was getting up at 2:45 am to head to my job in a -20ºF freezer lifting heavy ass boxes of frozen meat. So I wouldn't go as far as to say young people can't have drive to do this.

[Bayou06]

Hey all;

 

I hear day in an day out about these glorified taxi drivers of the gulf. Wow, thats some excitment. Although I think the industry of the giant oil company's should give a little more credit to the backbone of their industry. And I know people have read this time and time again. But yes, I am a student pilot and I would be happy with flying whatever. It seems to me that there is alot of negative talk on this site about GOM life, training and this that and the other. The whole point of all of our training was what? Yes, thats right the freedom of a little thing called flight. Its bad enough to have to get raped in training costs. Then to see people bitch about there horrible $50,000 plus jobs a year. (WTF) Before I started flight school, I was a farm boy in Iowa, feeding cows and all of the hill billy stuff. (yes, I did graduate from High School and College) What I am meaning with that is you are granted a job that pays a very well wage, that is a challenge and is what we all wanted at first FLYING. But insted I hear bitches and moans about washing there own "birds" and getting up early and the crew on the rigs are assholes. Its a job! Last time I checked nobody could walk down the road and ask someone to pay them $100,000 dollars for sitting on there ass. I just think that now a days peoples out look on life is so strange. I know that it is also a dangerous job but so is coal mineing. Just tell us younger folks about the good stuff too. Its to hard to hear all about how horrible flight school is and then how much your job sucks. When that student really enjoys flying.

 

But more GOM stuff. I know theirs a connection between what you have trained in and what you fly. But if these 206's are in such bad condition should a person try to look at a differant model. I'm going to eat my own words here but, I think that the Bell 430 is the cats ass. And was wondering if there is some sort of small light at the end of the tunnel. That if a person were to go to bell and take the 430 trainning they could possibly start a job in a 430? Don't get me wrong I will take a job flying to the arctic circle naked if I can get paid to pay off my flight school and eat. Even if its flying with a little yellow helicopter. But I was just wondering is it like flight school where everyone mostly learns in a robi? And then everyones first turbine job is in a 35 year old 206? Or if that bell school would help to get like a SIC job with 1,000 hours and very little turbine time? Thanks for your time

 

chop_top

 

 

Bud, I'm not trying to be mean, but it appears you have a little bit of a maturity issue. While I understand you really dig the sexy twin aircraft, you have to understand that helicopters are a utility vehicle for the most part. People use them to move as much "stuff" and people at the least cost. They're basically an expensive bus. Let me give you a analogy;

 

1. Fire fighting aircraft (big or small): = Fire Truck.

2. EMS aircraft: = Ambulance.

3. Offshore: = Crew truck (or boat, take your pick)

4. ENG: = TV Van.

5. Corporate aircraft: = Limousine.

6. Crop duster/Aerial application: = Tractor.

 

We are just an efficient, but pricey, means of moving things around. Once you get your head around that, then the whole aspect of what type of aircraft will make sense to you.

 

As far as you comment about the 206. Come on guy, grow up a little. The reason the 206 is so popular as a helicopter is that the aircraft is inexpensive to operate, has a decent payload and is easy to fly. Why would a operator pay twice as much for a light twin that is MUCH more expensive to maintain and only has marginally more capability?

 

Once you get in the business and start working, you'll understand. Good luck

[Collective Down!]

Collective down, at 18 years old I was getting up at 2:45 am to head to my job in a -20ºF freezer lifting heavy ass boxes of frozen meat. So I wouldn't go as far as to say young people can't have drive to do this.

 

 

I was referring to the students that I interacted with in the past, not generalizing every 18 year old.... Read it carefully. I'm standing by what I said.

 

I don't know chop_top, but I doubt he was slinging meat boxes before sunrise at such a young age like you slick.

[slick1537]

I agree with you collective down, as long as it is not a generalization for every younger person. Some lessons can only be learned and not taught, and everyone will learn these at different times. I just know I have worked at enough crappy warehouse jobs, with enough warehouse lifers to know to do what you think you should do, and knowing you get out what you put in.

[HelliBoy]

Just tell us younger folks about the good stuff too. Its to hard to hear all about how horrible flight school is and then how much your job sucks. When that student really enjoys flying.

 

By focusing on the negative things you hear you've made yourself one of those negative people. This site is awash in people whose love of helicopter flight make them the people whose opinions I value. They dont often say "flying for a living is the greatest thing ever" but you can read it in their attitudes. I'm not sure what made you post this rant but as a student pilot wanting a career in helis you should try to educate yourself a little better on the industry. You dont HAVE to do anything in this biz as long as you are willing to sacrifice to get what you want. I never wanted to fly in the GOM, decided I wasnt going to, and never have. Would it have been easier? probably. Did I bitch about it? probably a little(mostly to a short line of girlfriends). But having a consistently positive attitude is not something you learn at flight school.

 

You also dont have to hate being a flight instructor, I always loved teaching people to fly. It makes me feel so much smarter than I really am.

 

I just posted on another thread that I wish the negative people would quit flying...does that make me a negative person when it comes to negative people and thus be compelled to quit by my own wishes? Ok, back to feeling dumb.

 

Oh, and you have to bring your own 430 to get the factory training for it at bell school. They've also just upped the 206 training to $9500!!!! Jerks. Corprate collusion with insurance companies makes me feel negative.....whoops, sorry.

[rollthbns]

Hey all;

 

I hear day in an day out about these glorified taxi drivers of the gulf. Wow, thats some excitment. Although I think the industry of the giant oil company's should give a little more credit to the backbone of their industry. And I know people have read this time and time again. But yes, I am a student pilot and I would be happy with flying whatever. It seems to me that there is alot of negative talk on this site about GOM life, training and this that and the other. The whole point of all of our training was what? Yes, thats right the freedom of a little thing called flight. Its bad enough to have to get raped in training costs. Then to see people bitch about there horrible $50,000 plus jobs a year. (WTF) Before I started flight school, I was a farm boy in Iowa, feeding cows and all of the hill billy stuff. (yes, I did graduate from High School and College) What I am meaning with that is you are granted a job that pays a very well wage, that is a challenge and is what we all wanted at first FLYING. But insted I hear bitches and moans about washing there own "birds" and getting up early and the crew on the rigs are assholes. Its a job! Last time I checked nobody could walk down the road and ask someone to pay them $100,000 dollars for sitting on there ass. I just think that now a days peoples out look on life is so strange. I know that it is also a dangerous job but so is coal mineing. Just tell us younger folks about the good stuff too. Its to hard to hear all about how horrible flight school is and then how much your job sucks. When that student really enjoys flying.

 

But more GOM stuff. I know theirs a connection between what you have trained in and what you fly. But if these 206's are in such bad condition should a person try to look at a differant model. I'm going to eat my own words here but, I think that the Bell 430 is the cats ass. And was wondering if there is some sort of small light at the end of the tunnel. That if a person were to go to bell and take the 430 trainning they could possibly start a job in a 430? Don't get me wrong I will take a job flying to the arctic circle naked if I can get paid to pay off my flight school and eat. Even if its flying with a little yellow helicopter. But I was just wondering is it like flight school where everyone mostly learns in a robi? And then everyones first turbine job is in a 35 year old 206? Or if that bell school would help to get like a SIC job with 1,000 hours and very little turbine time? Thanks for your time

 

chop_top

 

Well, there is so much to add to this that it is difficult to decide where to begin.

 

The first hurdle you will have to leap will be actually getting through your training. There is a an awful lot more to being a professional pilot than jumping into the machine for some "fun" flying. Once you attain your instructors rating, and assuming you can secure a job, you will be required to relate and communicate skills to a variety of different people of all age brackets. Your goal will be to help them fly better and safer than you. You will be required to learn how to keep them motivated and moving forward towards their goals. The list goes on and on.

 

If you think you are being raped on your training costs, how are you possibly going to be able to encourage other people to train without being an ass bandit yourself? Helicopters cost lots of money to operate. Owners and operators take many risks in order to provide that opportunity to you. I challenge you to compare costs to many College degrees, and you will discover that flight training isnt all that expensive. Not to mention the fact that you get paid to complete your second year of school (Instructing) and the salary of your first job will likely eclipse that of someone just leaving college. The long run is a different story altogether, but I would venture to guess that none of us jumped into this career with aspirations of the big dollars.

 

I have a nephew who just started training this month, who just graduated high school in june. If he works hard, and learns professionalism, he could very well have a turbine job at 20. According to Jim Palmer at PHI, they have a pilot who was 24, working as an S-76 Captain and as SIC on the S-92. What kind of an attitude do you think that young man posessed in order to achieve that? I bet he worked hard, he learned everything he could from those around him, and he had great enthusiasm and respect for the job and the people he worked with. Before you refer to helicopter pilots as glorified taxi drivers or Jet Ranger sluts, you might want to consider the skill, knowlege and responsibility required to act in those positions. Carrying passengers demands even closer attention to safety, since the decisions you make can affect many other lives.

 

Employers look for more than just logbook entries. Enthusiasm for the company and for the job will be an important attitude to develop. Pretend for a minute that you have an 800,000 dollar Jet Ranger, and you are looking to hire a pilot. Aside from the experience, who would you prefer to hire? BE that person. I would also suggest that respect for those who have gone before you is important as well. Treat them with an attitude of service and you will be amazed at the doors that will open for you.

 

I have read a couple of your posts, and while I appreciate your energy and your love of flying, I would humbly suggest that you take a hard look at the role attitude and professionalism will play in your career. Good luck with your training, and fly safe!

[FredR]

Well, there is so much to add to this that it is difficult to decide where to begin.

 

The first hurdle you will have to leap will be actually getting through your training. There is a an awful lot more to being a professional pilot than jumping into the machine for some "fun" flying. Once you attain your instructors rating, and assuming you can secure a job, you will be required to relate and communicate skills to a variety of different people of all age brackets. Your goal will be to help them fly better and safer than you. You will be required to learn how to keep them motivated and moving forward towards their goals. The list goes on and on.

 

If you think you are being raped on your training costs, how are you possibly going to be able to encourage other people to train without being an ass bandit yourself? Helicopters cost lots of money to operate. Owners and operators take many risks in order to provide that opportunity to you. I challenge you to compare costs to many College degrees, and you will discover that flight training isnt all that expensive. Not to mention the fact that you get paid to complete your second year of school (Instructing) and the salary of your first job will likely eclipse that of someone just leaving college. The long run is a different story altogether, but I would venture to guess that none of us jumped into this career with aspirations of the big dollars.

 

I have a nephew who just started training this month, who just graduated high school in june. If he works hard, and learns professionalism, he could very well have a turbine job at 20. According to Jim Palmer at PHI, they have a pilot who was 24, working as an S-76 Captain and as SIC on the S-92. What kind of an attitude do you think that young man posessed in order to achieve that? I bet he worked hard, he learned everything he could from those around him, and he had great enthusiasm and respect for the job and the people he worked with. Before you refer to helicopter pilots as glorified taxi drivers or Jet Ranger sluts, you might want to consider the skill, knowlege and responsibility required to act in those positions. Carrying passengers demands even closer attention to safety, since the decisions you make can affect many other lives.

 

Employers look for more than just logbook entries. Enthusiasm for the company and for the job will be an important attitude to develop. Pretend for a minute that you have an 800,000 dollar Jet Ranger, and you are looking to hire a pilot. Aside from the experience, who would you prefer to hire? BE that person. I would also suggest that respect for those who have gone before you is important as well. Treat them with an attitude of service and you will be amazed at the doors that will open for you.

 

I have read a couple of your posts, and while I appreciate your energy and your love of flying, I would humbly suggest that you take a hard look at the role attitude and professionalism will play in your career. Good luck with your training, and fly safe!

 

Chop-Top,

I just wanted to comment on the continued reference to attitude and professionalism. While working on fires this summer, I continued to hear over and over that a positive attitude is so paramount in succeeding in this business (as well as most others). I think that the most important thing you can focus on is to honestly assess where you are and where you want to be. There are so many skilled and helpful folks out there who only want to see you acheive your goals. However, you must exhibit a positive outlook because being negative can become a graveyard spiral. Rollthbns post was spot on. Good Luck

 

PS I still like flying the 206.

[LostHeliBoy]

Its funny but this sounds like the CFI salary post or the 1000hrs and don't know what to do thread.. strange.. maybe they all should be slammed together.. ?

 

I agree with Rollthebns, heliboy and fredr STAY POSITIVE!

 

--LHB

Edited September 21, 2007 by LostHeliBoy

[Worldcrime]

I'd sweep the hangar first before I had a Bell 430 wet dream.

[helo08]

This is an old thread but I feel i can kind of relate to all this craziness. i got the itch to fly from a pilot who lost his life flying helicopters one and a half months after I met him. I discovered this the first day of Heli ground school, talk about knocked down. There are many reasons why I chose to fly I'll list a few: i have a genuine interest in flying helicopters, a lot of people said I couldn't do it (that I was too young), the pilot's liscenses look cool (It was a great day when it finally came in the mail), I felt I needed to decide what I needed to do in my life.

 

So I did make my career choice when i was 15 but that's besides the point. Flying is something that has changed my life forever and has taught me more than I could've possibly imagined. I've met many interesting people along the way and learned a lot more life lessons than the hog barns could've taught me.

That's not to say though that it hasn't come without a sacrifice. The past two summers I've worked @ minimum somewhere's between 8-14 hour days usually working every weekend. the reason I do this is because i have a goal and I don't want to let people be right in saying that i'm too young to go through with this or that I just can't do it. By people saying that it only makes me try harder to achieve that goal.

 

Keep the fan on!!!

[Bassbone]

There are no 430s in the GOM, and there likely won't be. There aren't many of them anywhere. They're too expensive to operate, and won't carry any more, realistically, than a 206L. There were once a few 222s in the GOM, but never very many, because they just weren't practical. It's a utility job, and the object is to carry as much as possible as cheaply as possible. The 206 does that. The airframes may be old, but in general, at least for the major companies, they've been well maintained, and are very reliable. There is the occasional engine failure, but when there are as many aircraft flying as many hours as there are, engine failures will sometimes occur.

 

 

Gomer Chevron operates a 430 on skids out of Leeville.

[Velocipede]

What's wrong with being a slut?