Trouble with R44 Transition

[299215]

This is my first post, but I’ve been reading other posts on here for months now and I really appreciate the valuable info. I’m a student, just finished my private in a schwizer and recently relocated to continue with my instrument/commercial ticket. I made the move because I felt it was important to get some R22/44 time. Well, here I am trying to transition into the R44 and really having a hard time controlling the helo smoothly during, hover, taxi, pick ups, set downs, and peddle turns. Honestly, most of the time I feel like I’ve never done any of these maneuvers before because it’s so out of control and sloppy. Actually, my instructors have had to grab the controls from me and I don’t seem to be making any rapid improvements. I have roughly 8 hrs total in the R44 and about 70 hrs total in a helo. Once off the ground, and foggles on I fly fine. My question is does anybody think it would be beneficial to hope in the R22 for a couple flights and try to get a better feel while flying VFR. These hours should apply towards my commercial at least. I hear the two fly similar, the R22 a little more difficult, but the R22 is about half the price to rent. Or is this idea going to make it even more difficult because I’m trying to transition into another helo? Oh yea, and when do things really start coming together during training. At times I don’t feel like I’m making the best decisions or have the knowledge to make really good decisions. I guess this will come with experience. Thank so much for the info and help.

[LostHeliBoy]

First !

 

WELCOME

 

Popular Rumor... The R22 is the hardest thing with two rotor wings to fly..

 

You are moving from a three bladed C/CB300 which is an inherantly more stable platform.

 

TO A R22 or R44 with their 2 bladed underslung tettering system. its a hard switch... The Robinson system can be like a Bell two bladed system (I'm told) and the Old huey pilots who talk about the Huey shuffle seem to think that the R22/44 have the same charactistics..

 

This is due to blade loading..

 

R22/44 = 2 blades total weight split 50%

 

CB300 = 3 blades total weight spilt 33%

 

The more blades the more ridgidity and stability..

 

Fly a Hughes 500 (5 bladed model=20%)

 

the CB300 also has a great trim station..

 

that TOP HAT is a gem..

 

until you strip the brass worm drive gear.

 

The R22 has no trim unless you count the bungee cords to take some of the effects of dysmetery of lift out of the equation. still has a load of lateral pull..

 

The last comparison is the position of the cyclic.. centered T-bar in the R22/44 and centered "Real" in the CB300... I always think that the cyclic is going to jump out of my hand some how in a R22. although I gotta death grip on the thing.. and in the CB300.. None of that.. trim it out and the cyclic just sits there..

 

Take a few flights in the R22.. it'll be good for you to experience it, to try to fly the tiny one.. and it will help you if flying the R44 is you path.. Also it is good for SFAR 73 sign off after 20hrs and for instructing in the future have a bit of time in all three.. OK..

 

 

Cheers --LHB

[Copterpilot213]

I've never been in your position but the R44 has hydraulics which can throw most people off that are used to the "feedback" you get in a helicopter with mechanical linkage and no hydraulics.

 

That being said, I'm not sure if R22 time would help. In my opinion if you can fly the R22 the R44 should be a breeze, which luckily it was for me. However, another student in my school is having difficulties similar to yours when he transitioned to the R44.

 

In my opinion you should give it time, be patient, try different hand positioning on the cyclic and make sure to keep your eyes on the horizon.

[PA Pilot]

Most of my time is in the R22 and R44. They really don't fly all that much differently -- my R22 to R44 transition was very easy.

 

That said, Robinsons (and many other helicopters) require a very sensitive touch on the controls. You can be pretty ham-handed in a Schweizer or Enstrom, but try that in a Robbie and you'll overcontrol it. I suspect that this is what is giving you trouble. Practice with an instructor may be frustrating, but it should fix the problem given some time.

[Scarab]

Eyes outside, breath, hold the cyclic lightly, rest your arm comfortably, think which way you want the heli to move and that's just about enough input. Tail rotor authority is much better. You wouldn't "ham hand" your girlfriend. Delicate touch get's you a smooth ride. Some helo's need a 3' pry bar to control them, others just a flick of the wrist. Give it some time and it will come together. Relax and have some fun.

[Pogue]

I don't think that an R22 would make the transition any easier, but it would be cheaper. I've only got about an hour in the S300 but I noticed that there is a lot more control movement in the 300 compared to the Robinsons. R22 to R44 is a little different but not too difficult. Just use a really light touch and it will come to you.

[HelliBoy]

You wouldn't "ham hand" your girlfriend.

Speak for yourself

[Bristol]

Hahah "ham hand" ..lol

 

ham-hand·ed (hăm'hăn'dĭd)

adj.

Lacking dexterity or skill; clumsy.

Lacking social grace or tact.

Having unusually large hands.

hamhandedly ham'-hand'ed·ly adv.

[HelliBoy]

Speak for yourself

 

 

Hahah "ham hand" ..lol

 

ham-hand·ed (hăm'hăn'dĭd)

adj.

 

Lacking social grace or tact.

.

Thats the one.

[Copterpilot213]

299215, let us know how it goes! Hopefully some of our advice helps.

[500E]

It will come to you time and training.

Same problem as me on 300\500 translation, performance is way different and if hydraulic control you are probably still over doing the input, Good Luck

[Goldy]

It will come to you time and training.

Same problem as me on 300\500 translation, performance is way different and if hydraulic control you are probably still over doing the input, Good Luck

 

 

Having flown the 300 and the 22 and 44 I echo 500E's comments. What you are experiencing is the hydraulic lag on the controls. It is different to fly, just as the R22 is different than the R44. Dont think because you can fly one that you can fly the other. It would help you get a lighter touch, but would not help you get used to the lag in the controls.

 

All I can offer is 1. Lighter touch, 2. less movement in the cyclic 3. Hover higher...the R44 downwash makes it tough to handle below 5 foot hover 4.Move then wait, move then wait on the cyclic.

 

But its worth it, that 150 MPH top end is pretty cool.

 

Goldy

[lwalling]

Try an Astro first if you can find one, that might help you, particularly in your set downs, pickups and hovering, then move over to a Raven.