What's a realistic price?

[jonf]

For people here that have completed it, what did you pay for everything before you could start instructing?

[Sparker]

Haven't done it yet, but this has been talked about quite a bit.

 

Expect responses, if any, from 50K-80K

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jonf]

Well I know the schools quote the lowest price possible but from what everybody says whether its fixed wing or rotor, its considerably higher than that. I've heard some people have paid as much as 120k so I want to know what really to expect

[Sparker]

It takes longer depending on what kind of student you are, how much ground school vs. studying on your own.

 

Estimate the cost of PPL to be almost double what they say... and you should be ready to instruct at around 200 hours if you can pass the exam.

[clay]

mid 35,000ish for everything. (excluding CFII)

[Goldy]

It takes longer depending on what kind of student you are, how much ground school vs. studying on your own.

 

Estimate the cost of PPL to be almost double what they say... and you should be ready to instruct at around 200 hours if you can pass the exam.

 

 

Here's some realism for ya. Figure your private will cost you 14K and give you say 50 hours. Another 150 hours by yourself of time will cost you at LEAST $200 hour, or another 30K. Most schools are up in the 230-250 per hour range...Throw in some ground, some instruction, checkrides, maybe 5K worth. So now you are in the 50K range....thats probably near the bottom for most, maybe 70K on the high side for others.

 

A lot has to do with how you do it, how well you can learn, your commitment, and how much you do on your own. I did know one fellow, just as I was soloing back in 1990 with about 25 hours....he had just hit the 100 hour mark of dual instruction and just plain couldnt get it......don't know if he ever did. They would not let him solo.

 

Another kid was 14 years old, with about 40 hours of instruction and was flying better than I was. The CFI just went along for the ride, because the kid was too young to fly, but the CFI would never touch the controls..

 

Goldy

Edited October 12, 2007 by Goldy

[clay]

its all dependant on the person. what it boils down to no matter how you break it down is your commitment, your study habits, and there hourly rate. simple as that. i know a kid who has over 80 hrs and hasnt soloed....on the other hand, i and many other students at my school soloed at 15 or less, and finished at 40 or less. its all up to you man. .

[jonf]

So it seems like I should plan on getting 80k or so just to be safe. I plan on starting in the fall doing 5 days a week if possible. I know its best to go hard at it and not take breaks so you dont lose skills so I really want to just do it full time, non stop until I get my CFI and CFII. I was just posting so I could get a little assurance that I'm not gonna spend all this money and end up getting screwed in the end

[Sparker]

Another kid was 14 years old, with about 40 hours of instruction and was flying better than I was. The CFI just went along for the ride, because the kid was too young to fly, but the CFI would never touch the controls..

 

Goldy

 

yeah... but 14 year olds have such an advantage... with the low center of gravity and stuff.

[montu]

mid 35,000ish for everything. (excluding CFII)

 

How did you get it done within 35k?

 

Jordan

[jehh]

Well I know the schools quote the lowest price possible but from what everybody says whether its fixed wing or rotor, its considerably higher than that. I've heard some people have paid as much as 120k so I want to know what really to expect

 

Not all schools quote the lowest price... We offer one for comparison purposes, however our "real" program is quite a bit higher than the advertised prices of some schools. The reason is simple, I want to offer a price that you can actually finish for, not what looks and sounds good in a brochure.

 

$73,165 is what we quote for an all up total price for 200 hours (S300, R-22, R-44, & Sim), including everything*.

 

Our "basic" program starts at $45,150, however I am very up front when I tell people it is nearly impossible to finish for that amount of money.

 

I have not, however, ever had a student spend $120K... (or even close to it)

 

* everything includes written tests, checkride fees, medical, books, headset and even the cost of the Robinson Factory Safety Course, including airline ticket and hotel room. Zero out of pocket cost, period.

[mechanic]

Hey Clay,

What is Salaika's block rates?? Isn't the hour rate on their website the regular rate?

 

Thanks

[clay]

as far as block time at Salaika, Im not sure off the top of my head.. you would have to call and talk to Tim and find out. I'm sure it depends on how much of a block you buy.

 

How did I get my ratings for that amount? started training and working for a helicopter company at the same time. met alot of pilots, and picked up alot of spare flight time. I actually only did about 115 hrs at school, the rest has been picked up flying turbines..just lucky

Edited October 12, 2007 by clay

[mechanic]

Not sure off the top of my head.. you would have to call and talk to Tim and find out. I'm sure it depends on how much of a block you buy.

 

 

I see his CPL H vfr is about the same as what I paid at another local school. I need to check them out one day. To check out an Enstrom! Wonder if they will be at Heli Expo Houston?

 

Thanks,

 

mechanic

[clay]

I am sure Tim will be there, but as far as advertising? I dunno. its pretty funny though to me that he has been around since 79 doing training, yet barely advertises and he keeps busy? weird

Edited October 12, 2007 by clay

[mechanic]

I am sure Tim will be there, but as far as advertising? I dunno. its pretty funny though to me that he has been around since 79 doing training, yet barely advertises and he keeps busy? weird

 

Word of mouth advertising is always good. He apparently has some good contacts.

[Goldy]

Jonf- If you want to save some of that money...check out the other thread about tips on saving $$ during training....

 

Goldy

[auto360]

I've become so lost on all this. Is it unrealistic to have all your ratings within 200 hrs? Seems to me a school should be able to give you a figure of what it cost to get to 200hrs. If you need more than it cost more. But I have talked to others that have said if you can do it by 200 hrs ( going to school fulltime) than you shouldn't be flying. So whats all this extra money for SIM and R44 stuff? I have no interest in SIMS, though I may be willing to pay extra for R44 time.

When I go home for R & R in Nov I will be visiting 2 schools and I will have them break it down so I can clearly see what they are charging for.

 

On a related topic. Truck driving schools are the same way. Some charge huge bucks while others are very reasonable. Some have good equipment, others don't. Same can be said for instructors. For me I can't see spending 70K when I can do the same for 50K. And lets face it, if theres an instructor willing to teach and a student who is willing to learn, and knows how to learn, progress will be that much better for both involved.

[southernweyr]

It cost me 14,500 to get my ppl. Total was about $65,000 by the end (0-CFII). I ended up with right around 200 hours which is the minimum to teach in a Robbie.

[jehh]

I've become so lost on all this. Is it unrealistic to have all your ratings within 200 hrs?

 

In my experience, 200 hours is enough to obtain your CFI and CFII. Of course not everyone will do it, but I'd expect the vast majority can if they stick to it and do not take breaks from training.

 

So whats all this extra money for SIM and R44 stuff? I have no interest in SIMS, though I may be willing to pay extra for R44 time.

 

The simulator is used as a teaching aid and to reduce the cost of training. If you can replace helicopter hours with simulator hours, that saves you money at the end of the day.

 

For me I can't see spending 70K when I can do the same for 50K.

 

Depends on what the $50K includes... If the 70K includes 200 hours, R-44 time, and all the books and tests, then it isn't so bad. If the 50K is 150 hours of R-22 time, that doesn't do you a lot of good, regardless of what the brochure says.

 

And lets face it, if theres an instructor willing to teach and a student who is willing to learn, and knows how to learn, progress will be that much better for both involved.

 

That is true, however you need to end up employable at the end of your training, so understanding the job requirements is important.

[Chi-town]

Jonf,

 

After seeing every type of student pass through my doors: Young, Old, Clever, Slow, etc. The reason it is so hard for a school to give you an honest to goodness solid price for your training is the various factors.

 

First I'll tell you the area you can affect most to keep the price as low as possible: Doing book work on your own! I can't tell you how many times I've assigned reading or chapters in the test prep book to students to do and they never do it. That means I have to waste several hours of ground spoon-feeding each subject! I understand some subjects require a lot of explanation, demonstration, etc. But understanding the regulations section out of the ASA Test Prep book is just about reading and memorizing. That's one example. For every hour of flying, you should be doing two to three hours of book study MINIMUM.

 

Other factors that slow down/increase the price of training: Pauses in training. Family emergencies that cause you to leave for a few weeks to tend to business, illness, vacations, social responsibilities, etc. If you want to get the training done as quickly and cheaply as possible, you have to eat, breathe, and sleep helicopters for about a year. Treat it as your primary job; all else needs to be secondary. I did it that way, got done in a year and spent about 50 grand. I probably accrued the least amount of ground instruction because I did a lot of it pn my own and used the instructor to answer my questions about items I didn't understand.

 

I have seen very few students who can do this. I had one kid who was very disciplined and focused and probably had about 20 hours of ground for a PPL.

 

Others have accrued close to 100 hours because they just want you to spoon feed the info.

[auto360]

Thanks for the break down JEHH. Paying for R44 time sounds like a good option if in the end I could end up teaching in it. Would make me more versitile when it comes time to be hired as an instructor which could help build the 200-1000 hrs quicker. Plus time in a different aircraft is always good.

 

I would think life would be easier if the school you trained at would hire you as an instructor but I know that there are no guarantees.

 

So far my experience is 10 hrs:

 

Took me 2 hrs to hover but once I messed up wasn't able to correct. Learned in Tn.

By approx 5-6 hrs I could hover taxi. Did that at Quantum

My sister flys planes, private license, and we have planned several trips by maps so that is not difficult.

No problem maintaining altitude or heading.

Guy in Tn taught me how to land and I was doing them so-so but years have passed so I couldn't do it now.

Been present during Auto Rotations but never on the controls.

Takeoffs- not that big of a deal....compared to other manuevers.

IFR- Can't say I'm overly worried but I see that being a real challenge

22 yrs of motorcycles and 11 yrs of driving semis has taught me that my life revolves around situational awareness.

 

Then theres allll the stuff I don't even know that I don't know. Good times are ahead

[fry]

This was posted by the operator of the JH forum in response to a poster who said he got had just gotten his PPL at 100 hours and had paid $38k. He was questioning whether he has paid too much.

 

 

At 16 years of flying helicopters, I am still new to the business and learning. But, just so that you know that I am not just shooting from the hip, about 1200 hours of my flight experience was teaching guys just like you in the R22. I was also brought up in the R22 myself. I do not consider myself an expert in anything, however I feel comfortable commenting on the subject.

 

If you are a person of average ability, you should be able to solo between 20 - 35 hours. You should be able to take your PPL checkride somewhere between 60 - 70 hours without a problem. The only time that my numbers might be averaged up is if you are training out of a really busy airport that requires you to depart the area to an outlying airport or training area......in which case you might add .3 to .5 to each lesson for travel time. In which case, you would have made that choice. Perhaps unknowingly, but you made it.

 

Now, if you are training out of an airport that is not crazy busy and for which heli training is tolerated AND you are an average student.......then you may have been taken to the cleaners.

 

Good news, bad news..

 

Bad news first. If you would have taken the PPL at 65 hours, you would have about 35 hours more PIC time. As a student pilot, when you are with a CFI, that is logged as dual. If you were a rated pilot (PPL) it would still be dual, but you would be PIC. Not that 35 hours additional PIC time is a huge deal, I am just pointing it out.

 

Good news. If you are in a Professional Pilot program and training up through CFI or CFII, then it might be pretty much a moot point depending on the nature of program and how fast they can bring you up to speed. It does sound like you are about 30 hours behind the curve. You should be right smack in the middle of your instrument training in my opinion.

 

In my opinion, any Pro Pilot Program operating Robinson Helicopters that is worth it's salt should offer a candidate the following package.

 

O-200 hours.

 

In that 200 hours, you should complete PPL (60-80 hours), Instrument (120 - 130 hours), CPL (150-160 hours), CFI - (170 - 180 hours), CFII by 200 hours.

 

Furthermore, you should have 175 hours R22 and 25 hours R44. This combination of training and experience gets you 3 important things to make you qualified and most marketable for your first job:

 

1. All ratings PPL through CFII

2. The 200 hour requirement to meet most insurance requirements.

3. Qualified in both the R22 and the R44. The R44 is becoming more prevalent and ALL schools operating them will give preference to candidates who can teach in both the R22 and the R44.

 

Ps. The fact that you were credited 10 hours is very customer service oriented, but spells "g u i l t y" in my book.

 

One man's opinion.

 

Regards,

Lyn Burks

www.justhelicopters.com

[auto360]

Fry,

 

I'm not sure if that post was meant for me but the 10 hrs experience I have has been in the last like 5 yrs. I don't even have any of it logged. When I go to school I have no intention in including those hrs. In those 10hrs I have proven to myself that I know that this is what I want to do and judging so far I have the capacity to do it.

I have also been on the teaching side of things so I know what I have expected from my students, which many like JEHH have said want to be spoon fed everything. But thats another story in an a different industry. I do know that I would want myself as a student though if I was the teacher.

[fry]

Fry,

 

I'm not sure if that post was meant for me...

 

The post is intended for any current or future student who might have the same question about how he is progressing. I thought it was a clear bit of information from a credible source.