Positive Silver State Helicopter Experiences

[Sparker]

Mitch, I have never dealt with SSH but maybe instead of trying to pick a school you should pick a helicopter. I was in your shoes back in January of this year and I walked into SSH and didn't know a whole lot about helicopters, but when I made my decision it was based on two things. 1. Did the instructors and staff seem to really care? 2. what kind of helicopters do they use. I personally didn't like the R-22. I like the shweizer 300. click on this link. hope I helped. good luck

 

http://www.flyprecision.com/website/FlighT...hoolHeli.html#H

 

I completely disagree with this. Unless weight is an issue the aircraft type should be fairly low on the list, yet still on the list...

 

If the school has a bad rep or come of like jerk but have the helo you want it would be stupid to go to that school. Go to the school that will give you the most professional education.

[auto360]

Note: When I use the word "you", I'm not refering to anyone in particular so no one take this as a personal insult.

 

This is where I see a potential problem and has nothng to do with cost or contracts but instead, your precieved reputation when your done your schooling. SSH has a bad reputation for sure, whether or not its justified, SSH just is not looked upon favorably. If a Helicopter Company has 3 resume's and one of them it shows the person went to SSH, will they be considered or will it be filed into the trash can. Or lets say you get hired with a company and your in the training phases for the GOM. If that instructor is a regular at any Helicopter Forum he may have tainted thoughts of you because you went to SSH. Lets say you make a mistake, there will be a good chance they'll blame SSH training which then makes you look bad and any other person who went to SSH. People may question why on earth you chose a school with such a poor reputation, were you not smart enough to do research? That isn't right or fair you say but the fact is its human nature and people make 1st impressions quickly and it could take a while to work a bad 1st impression off. There is always talk that this is a small industry and its wise to keep a good reputation so why would you want to start it off bad. You may be a great pilot and had a great instructor but on 1st impression theres a fair to midland chance you will not be looked upon favorably.

Maybe I'm wrong on this and it doesn't matter what school you go to. I don't work in the Helicopter industry so I don't have 1st hand knowledge. I'm just guessing on how some people may think and personally I wouldn't risk my $70K+. Food for thought.

 

PS:All SSH pilots. I'm not saying your dumb or made a wrong choice or anything like that. You all have your reasons, but I'm just throwing out hypothetical situations that you may encounter later on. The thoughts that I wrote are not necessarily my thoughts so please don't flame me.

[Spider-Mitch]

Hey all,

 

I'm still continuing to enjoy the discussion. Lot's of great food for thought. I may not recall all the questions posed, but to add some clarity. I'm visiting Silver State November 3rd for a one on one meeting with a guy there. So, much of what's been said or talked about I will be bringing up. I don't hesitate to lay it all out. Obviously the answers may be biased, but that's expected.

 

I'm planning on visiting the other schools over the next few weeks as well. Those would be: Hillsboro Aviation, Applebee, and Precision.

 

One of the things that piqued my interest in Silver State was what I was told by them PLUS what a SSH CFI mentioned in another thread: the CFI pay scale. It would appear that they are paying a better wage then some of the other schools I've read about. Again, I will nail them down on this as well as the other schools. I guess making $30k a year while getting to that 1000 hour mark is a big sacrifice for me, and when SSH quoted above $50, that seemed more reasonable. Again, I will seek some hard answers here.

 

Now, on a slightly different note, Applebee offers a Zero to Professional Pilot program for $57k. I have to question this, because as I've gathered, anyone with less than a thousand, or even 500 hours, isn't really commercial ready. Is Applebee then a scam? That would seem to be a bigger promise than Silver State.

 

My goals right now lay in pursuing something, what's the word, "emergency" oriented? Like the LifeFlight, SAR, firefighting. Things that make an impact on peoples lives. That may be a romantic view and far down the road, I don't know. I do know that I don't get much satisfaction or fulfillment writing code. I'm not "saving the world". I guess I'd like to feel that at the end of the day, I mattered to someone (aside from my family ).

 

No need to chime in about "reality", I can go digging in the other posts. I'm just working on the pieces of the puzzle to get me from here to there and if it truly is viable. My family is willing to sacrifice and so am I. How much for how long is the question. I was figuring 2-3 years before I could get some commercial work. Thus, Silver State has struck a chord in me with their marketing. As stated, I will be exploring other programs, so don't worry.

[rotor_head_spencer]

I completely disagree with this. Unless weight is an issue the aircraft type should be fairly low on the list, yet still on the list...

 

If the school has a bad rep or come of like jerk but have the helo you want it would be stupid to go to that school. Go to the school that will give you the most professional education.

 

 

I am not saying that what kind of Helicopter should be your top priority, but I would say that its pretty dang important!

 

"In the event of an engine failure, the 300 provides the pilot with a full 7-8 seconds of response time before the collective must be lowered to maintain rotor rpm. Compare that to 1 second for a R-22."

 

Of course you are going to try and get a feel for each school and the kind of proffesionalism they bring to the table. However, would you say that schools like SSH use the R-22 becuase its the best trainer, or because its cheaper for them and for you? I know I would want the best and safest. What is more important? Saving one or two grand on training or your life?

 

"In fact, Frank Robinson, the designer of the R-22, emphatically states that his helicopter is not designed to be a training aircraft. Many flight schools utilize the R-22 because it is the least expensive helicopter to buy and operate."

 

I am not trying to be a salesman for the 300, or for Precision, But three years ago I lived in down town Portland and I visited all three of these schools when I was trying to decide on which one to go to. I liked precision the most, but thats just me. Too bad for me at the time I could not get Key Bank to give me any money to go to school so I moved back to Boise. Boise was almost the exact same situation as Portland in reagards to which schools to choose from. SADLY the hardest part may not be choosing a school but getting funding for the schools themselves. PRAY TO GOD that the school you do choose has more financing options than the EVIL corporation that is run by terrorists "SALLIE MAE!" I know that you are looking for positive stories about SSH, but since those seem to pretty rare I thought I would try and give some advice. GOOD LUCK MITCH!

[RotorWeed]

If paying upfront and getting unlimited Simulator and ground training in addition to what everyone else gives you works for you then fine.

 

Is that what you get for the extra $20k they charge you? Free simulator time, and more ground school?

 

Here is a place that has the same 200 hours for a lot less money.

 

http://vortex-helicopters.com/content/propilot.php

[wannabe heli pilot]

I'm 100% honest when I ask, has anyone had a positive experience with Silver State Helicopters? And please, I'm looking for first hand knowledge, of someone who didn't drop out for whatever reason, and kept with the program until completion, or "expulsion" (if they do that at some point).

 

I'd also like to hear some first hand experiences from 2007. Most of what I have read dates to 2006 and earlier. It is possible that they had to right the ship after over marketing, when demand was too high for supply? I guess I'm looking for some relevant knowledge.

 

Please, don't beat a dead horse here, because I have read tons of bad reviews of SSH. I even read a few nice things. However, I'm really looking for people who can truly speak about the school, not what they heard.

 

 

Thanks :-D

Some people maybe should read before replying?

[jehh]

Is that what you get for the extra $20k they charge you? Free simulator time, and more ground school?

 

Here is a place that has the same 200 hours for a lot less money.

 

http://vortex-helicopters.com/content/propilot.php

 

In fairness, it isn't the "same" 200 hours...

 

200 hours of R-22 time that includes only 130 of that as dual instruction, is not the same as 150 hours of dual R-22, 30 hours dual R-44, and 20 hours solo R-22.

 

Not that I'm defending Silver State, just more pointing out that Vortex's $53K program isn't the same thing, given what it lacks compared to the $70K programs.

[fry]

In fairness, it isn't the "same" 200 hours...

 

200 hours of R-22 time that includes only 130 of that as dual instruction, is not the same as 150 hours of dual R-22, 30 hours dual R-44, and 20 hours solo R-22.

 

Not that I'm defending Silver State, just more pointing out that Vortex's $53K program isn't the same thing, given what it lacks compared to the $70K programs.

 

Trading 30 hours of R44 time for R22 time at an additional cost of $200/hr would make that $53k program $59k. That's still not $70k.

[Tenacious T]

Airlog refuses to hire any more SSH grads unless they have 2,000 hours or more.

 

I heard the same thing but it's possible that this has something to do the fact that Airlog just bought Vortex and is now in direct competition with SSH.

 

People like to imply that SSH produces inferior pilots, does this mean that all the examiners giving them their check rides are certifying pilots that don't meet FAA standards?

 

BTW, there are enough topics with negative comments about SSH, this topic was requesting positive experiences. I understand that it's hard for some people to resist hijacking any thread about SSH but no one likes their thread skewed off topic.

[RotorWeed]

People like to imply that SSH produces inferior pilots, does this mean that all the examiners giving them their check rides are certifying pilots that don't meet FAA standards?

 

It has nothing to do with being able to pass the check ride. Is it worth the extra $15-20k? Is it worth taking twice as long to receive your ratings? Is it worth signing a contract where they get all of your money before you get to fly? How are a few hours of long line training going to get you a job if you are a 200hr commercial pilot? Why does the ground school take 6 months? Why will they not let you pay as you go; like every other flight school in the country? What good is unlimited simulator time when you are looking for a job? Do you want to receive training from a 200hr pilot or a 2000hr pilot with real world flying experience?

 

I don't think anyone has said they produce inferior pilots on this forum.

[beckwith]

It has nothing to do with being able to pass the check ride. Is it worth the extra $15-20k? Is it worth taking twice as long to receive your ratings? Is it worth signing a contract where they get all of your money before you get to fly? How are a few hours of long line training going to get you a job if you are a 200hr commercial pilot? Why does the ground school take 6 months? Why will they not let you pay as you go; like every other flight school in the country? What good is unlimited simulator time when you are looking for a job? Do you want to receive training from a 200hr pilot or a 2000hr pilot with real world flying experience?

 

I don't think anyone has said they produce inferior pilots on this forum.

 

Are there any schools where you consistently see instructors with 2000 hours and real world experience? My understanding from this fourm is that the vast majority of instructors are 200 to 1000 hour pilots, and that this is the only employment available to those in that hour range.

 

Maybe no one has come right out and said it but it has been inferred, repeatedly, that SSH produces inferior pilots. It has also been said explicitly that SSH pilots are handicapped in the post training job market. I don't know about the veracity of those statements one way or another I'm just pointing it out.

Edited October 26, 2007 by beckwith

[500pilot]

OK, I've always stayed away from SSH topics in the past but let me give you an outsider’s view. I've been away from the training environment for a long time but hope I might give a fresh perspective from an experienced pilot.

 

It seems to me that most people have a problem with the contract that they make you sign where you give up all of your money within the first 6 or so months. I think that this might be the biggest problem any new student should have. They seem to target the working class people that don’t have the time to go full time but have the credit to get the financing required for flight school. These people might be the typical IT office worker making 55k a year or the truck driver/construction worker or even the local college kid without much direction as well. These people get sick of sitting in the office, driving long hours and basically doing a job that might not give you great job satisfaction. These people hear ads for being a helicopter pilot and the romance and mystery of a helicopter pilot will draw them in. I mean let’s face it, being a helicopter pilot is something not many people do and has an air of mystery/respectability in many places. Basically they think of it as an ego boost. Hell, the image of the helicopter pilot on TV is as a rogue. A hard partying, live life on the edge type of person. Just watch Air America if you want to see what I'm talking about. These people hear the ads and think all they have to do is take lessons and within 18-24 months of part time training they can be flying professionally making 50k a year. With the way that sounds I don't blame them for signing up.

 

I'm not sure many of them realize how much work is involved and only attending school on a part time basis will only further take time. Some might not want to do the work involved with flying. They also might see that the industry is not much different from the one they left. Others might just realize that one demo flight wasn't enough for them to make a decision on how much they liked to fly. They might realize later on that they don't enjoy it as much as they thought. Usually when people take a demo flight they've already made up their mind and the demo flight just cements how much of the cool factor is in flying.

 

Meanwhile as they get deeper into their training and more time has passed their life situation might change. Many of these people have families to support and jobs to do. They might find that helicopters is not what they like to do anymore. Over the course of 2-5 years things change in people’s lives and helicopters now are not their priority. They don’t even fly for the first several months as well so that puts them further into debt. By the time they realize that they want out they are so far deep into the program that dropping out will basically cost them the full amount. After only six or so months in the course and having all your funds exhausted you can easily see how people can hate a place. I'm sure SSH will guarantee the student 200 hours but they probably expect many of those students to drop out before using the full amount of hours.

 

SSH knows that not everyone will finish up and that is why the make the students sign the training contract. This allows SSH to have those extra funds for free. Now they are getting a much higher hourly cost for the helicopter and that leads to much higher profit. Back when I learned to fly in the mid 90's I had twelve or so students going through training at one of the most reputable schools in the industry. Out of the twelve that were there 8 or so were full time and the rest part timers like myself. By the time a year had passed only 5 of the full timers were in training and had finished the CFI and I was the only part timer still training. Most had dropped out due to various reasons of money or finding out that it wasn’t what they thought it was. SSH counts on this to happen and manages to keep your funds by locking you into the training agreement.

 

By not letting you fly for the first several months while you do ground will further add money to their pockets while the student doesn't fly. Many students will drop out after several flights as they realize how difficult it is. By only flying once or twice week a person can get frustrated at the lack of progress they are making due to the first 20 or so minutes playing catch-up due to their skills being rusty. All of us get into this thinking we are super pilots and can instantly be flying like a 5000 hour pilot as soon as we step into the cockpit. As the student gets more and more frustrated with the lack of progress because they might hardly fly they will begin to look at whether this is what they want. They might want to get out of flying but then find out they are fully committed to the program and can’t get their money back. Now the student has no choice. Either keep going and hope it gets better or drop out. Some have also filed the lawsuits to hopefully get some of the money back.

 

There have also been lots of posts regarding the quality of training at SSH. I would have no idea how good/bad it is but we all have to pass the check ride to the same standards. There will be good students/instructors as well as bad ones. I have trained both civilian and military and have seen both. I find it hard to believe that every instructor at SSH is horrible. I know that some are taking training in Northern California and I know that those people taking check rides with that examiner have their work cut out for them. None of the examiners up there will give you a certificate. They make you earn it.

 

I have also seen posts about companies not hiring SSH grads. I have no idea if it is true but IMO if someone can fly to the standards why shouldn't they get the job. We all do this for one reason or another but in the end we do it because we love flying. I don't think any company will put you on a black list because of where you trained. I personally have never met a SSH grad but that is because where I work we have low turnover and require very high time and experience to even get offered an interview. I did recently meet one of their pilots that was flying the OCC Longranger and must say he seemed like a very intelligent and professional pilot. We talked for awhile while he waited for weather as I was filing IFR and he seemed proud of where he worked even though he didn’t train there. There is no reason for me to believe that the people at SSH are the dregs of the industry.

 

I think that SSH has developed a bad reputation that might be a little deserved but you have to do research before you sign on the dotted line. I'm sure that if you can commit yourself to full time you can finish up as advertised. However if you have a problem you run the risk of losing your money. I don’t think the contracts that you sign is fair. You should NEVER put money up front before you buy a service. This way you are giving yourself an out in case something happens to yourself or the school. What happens if SSH goes bankrupt? You are at the bottom of the list when it comes to getting your money back. If you can get a deal buy it in 10 hour block time. This way you minimize your risk and can get a little better rate.

 

Another thing you should try to not do is borrow money. I have seen way too many pilots right now saddled with 7-800 dollar loan payments and can barely afford to pay bills with what many of these salary’s pay. I know most people don’t have tons of money up front but I worked and saved, lived at home etc and yes it took me a little longer but I finished with no debt and was able to survive the early years. If you think you can handle the loan payment think about this, if you make 50k a year which is about the average starting salary your monthly salary will be around 4200 a month. Take away 25% taxes and your take home pay is 3100 a month. If your rent costs a 1000 a month and say your utilities another 500 which is reasonable you are now down to 1600 dollars. Factor in the average car payment and gas of around 5-600 total you are now down to a 1000 bucks. Insurance, food entertainment etc might total 500 bucks. If you have a 700 dollar loan payment you are now in the negative. Also remember rent now is usually more than a 1000 a month unless you are renting a room and you might have medical for family and credit card bills as well. This will continue for many years down the road as you try to pay off the loan. This is just one scenario but your mileage may vary.

 

I know that the OP was asking for positive experiences about SSH and I have read some but I hope that my long and boring post might be able to shed a different perspective to not only him but to others that are looking at joining this industry. Remember, there is no easy was out in this industry. It will take a HUGE commitment both mentally and economically. You can train a monkey to fly but only a pilot can utilize a helicopter the way it was meant to be and do it safely.

 

Good Luck.

An Old(er) Pilot.

[Sparker]

I am not saying that what kind of Helicopter should be your top priority, but I would say that its pretty dang important!

 

"In the event of an engine failure, the 300 provides the pilot with a full 7-8 seconds of response time before the collective must be lowered to maintain rotor rpm. Compare that to 1 second for a R-22."

 

Of course you are going to try and get a feel for each school and the kind of proffesionalism they bring to the table. However, would you say that schools like SSH use the R-22 becuase its the best trainer, or because its cheaper for them and for you? I know I would want the best and safest. What is more important? Saving one or two grand on training or your life?

 

"In fact, Frank Robinson, the designer of the R-22, emphatically states that his helicopter is not designed to be a training aircraft. Many flight schools utilize the R-22 because it is the least expensive helicopter to buy and operate."

 

I am not trying to be a salesman for the 300, or for Precision, But three years ago I lived in down town Portland and I visited all three of these schools when I was trying to decide on which one to go to. I liked precision the most, but thats just me. Too bad for me at the time I could not get Key Bank to give me any money to go to school so I moved back to Boise. Boise was almost the exact same situation as Portland in reagards to which schools to choose from. SADLY the hardest part may not be choosing a school but getting funding for the schools themselves. PRAY TO GOD that the school you do choose has more financing options than the EVIL corporation that is run by terrorists "SALLIE MAE!" I know that you are looking for positive stories about SSH, but since those seem to pretty rare I thought I would try and give some advice. GOOD LUCK MITCH!

 

The only place I am leery of R22 is high altitude... Rockies and whatnot, Price is the biggest factor for most flight schools, no doubt. I agree that 7 seconds is more comfortable, but I think a pilot can gain a lot by the required reaction time in a robison.

 

(End thread hijack)

[Paisley]

500Pilot,

Excellent Post.