Commercial and Instrument...together?

[dwhit]

I've just received my private and now I am starting my commercial. But I've heard and continue to hear the in order to save money I need to do my instrument within my commercial and probably do a portion of that in the R-44. Any recommedation or experiences? Money will probaby be an issue within the next few months, so I have also taken that into account. Just wondering how other pilots have tackled this. Thanks for any help or recommendations.

[klmmarine]

If you just do your Comm first, you will be paying for 100 hours of flight time (assuming you got your PPL at 50 hours) and then still have to pay for an additional 50 hours, or so, to get your Instrument ticket. All of your flight time in the instrument course counts toward the 150 hour requirement for Part 61 Commercial.

 

If you are trying to shorten the calendar time it takes to get through your training it makes sense to do both at the same time esp. in the Pac NW. If you do both, when the weather is too bad to fly Instrument proc. but still VFR you can fly on your commercial curriculum, thereby saving time in the end.

 

As far as flying the R44 goes... The minimum number of hours (under SFAR 73) to teach in the R44 is 25 (assuming you did at least 25 hours of training in the R22) unless your future employer uses Pathfinder insurance, and then it is 50 hours. So it definitely would be a good thing to get at least 25 hours as this would open up some employment opportunities. If on the other hand you are small (175lbs or less), do not intend to get CFII, or money is extremely tight then stick with the 22.

 

Getting just a couple of hours in the R44, or in any aircraft for that matter, probably won't help you on the job market. To make it worth it, you really need to get enough time to be competent, comfortable and safe in the aircraft in addition to getting real close to any SFAR or Insurance requirements you might face.

[C.R.O.]

D.C.,

 

Once again, congrats on passing the check ride.

 

I can't tell you what the best way is, but I can tell you I am doing my instrument while working on my commercial requirements.

 

Conor

[Voyager11]

I've just received my private and now I am starting my commercial. But I've heard and continue to hear the in order to save money I need to do my instrument within my commercial and probably do a portion of that in the R-44. Any recommedation or experiences? Money will probaby be an issue within the next few months, so I have also taken that into account. Just wondering how other pilots have tackled this. Thanks for any help or recommendations.

 

That is what I'm doing right now. I was lucky to get involved with a school that has and Astro instrument ship that they own and not lease like so many schools lease it seems. I was able to buy 50 hour blocks at a greatly reduced price. You can talk turkey if they own the ship I found out. By the time I am done I will have well over 160 hours i n a 44, right now I'm just at 130. Doing the instrument rating after my ppl has turned out well for me. My overall flying skills have increased dramatically. It kind of takes the rough edges off your flying and greatly expands you knowledge base setting you up to move quickly through you cpl. What ever you decide to do good luck and I hope you do well and keep scanning!!!! lol Oh congrats on the ppl, remember a ppl is a license to learn.

 

Respectfully Submitting

VoyagerII

[delorean]

Do your instrument before your commercial to build time, otherwise that 100 hrs of PIC is going to be nothing but buzzing around (and you'll still need 40 hrs of instrument time.) The R44 is a nice instrument ship because it's fast....you can get 3-4 approaches done in an hour; where in a 300 it's hard to get 3. 300 is nice because it's extremely stable.

 

Do your commercial and CFI at the same time......the training is the same, the written tests are the same, the checkride is the same. I had several students do there commercial & CFI in the same ride with the FAA. It saved time & money. The R44 and the 300 is also a nicer helicopter for these because of the touchdown autos.

[choppedair]

Do your instrument before your commercial to build time, otherwise that 100 hrs of PIC is going to be nothing but buzzing around (and you'll still need 40 hrs of instrument time.) The R44 is a nice instrument ship because it's fast....you can get 3-4 approaches done in an hour; where in a 300 it's hard to get 3. 300 is nice because it's extremely stable.

 

Do your commercial and CFI at the same time......the training is the same, the written tests are the same, the checkride is the same. I had several students do there commercial & CFI in the same ride with the FAA. It saved time & money. The R44 and the 300 is also a nicer helicopter for these because of the touchdown autos.

 

CFI is 141 at Hillsboro so you can't really mix it with the commercial.

DC, do most of your instrument during your commercial. Start out in the sim, and learn how to do everything on the garmin 430 unit.

Fly some in the R22, if w&b allows it. Get around 20 hours of instrument time in sim/r22/fixed wing (actual IFR), get the R44 PIC endorsement, then 15 hours IFR in the R44. You can work at this slowly during your commercial.

After your done with your CFI, use the last 5 hours (for total of 25) in the R44 to refresh and take your instrument and CFII checkride in the same day.

That way you'll end up with the 25 hours to instruct in the R44, and minimal flight time. Fixed wing may be extra money spent, but the sim might be also. Remember that you need 200 hours IN HELICOPTERS to instruct in a Robinson. It doesn't make sense to spend 10 hours in the sim if you think you might finish all your ratings with 190 hours in helicopters. You may want to sit down with your instructor and write out a plan for the rest of your training, to see what makes the most sense for you.

Oh and congrats on the checkride!

 

So is this what you do all day when you're sitting behind the counter "working"?

Edited March 1, 2008 by choppedair

[NorCalHeliKid]

I think this elaborate scheme of doing combination checkrides is a serious mistake. In my opinion, there is now way that you can seriously prepare for a Commercial Checkride and also do your CFI checkride and be dedicated to knowing the material in both areas. Yes, the flying may be similar maneuver wise, but what else is there at this stage in training, of course the flying is similar. There is alot that goes into being a good CFI, if you are seriously dedicated its not just having some notes on some binder paper so you can teach aerodynamics. Im starting to question the quality of education here in an effort to save "time and money." I just dont think that you can take yourself seriously and prepare for two seperate ratings at the same time....I disagree about them bieng that same checkrides, not similar material, as they are, but a rating to teach and be paid, to me means that you better know your sh*t and you better be good at teaching it....the integrity and reputation that will accompany this system will show in time.

[tattooed]

So is this what you do all day when you're sitting behind the counter "working"?

 

 

LOL, or BS'ing in the lounge with me while I play with his dog!

 

 

 

I think it's interesting that we posted basically the same question at about the same time!

http://helicopterforum.verticalreference.com/helicopterfor...?showtopic=9201

 

I absolutely plan on getting time in the R44. No question. I just need help with how to "tweak" my Inst training. I'm still working on my PVT, so I have time to figure this out.

 

Glad to see all these HAI folks jumpin' in on the discussions. Anyone know how Dirk's interview went? He didn't respond yet to my PM.

 

I'm bummed cuz I'm now at 2 days in a row grounded. Hopefully tomorrow. Gettin' close to my Prog check.

[HeloJunkie]

I think this elaborate scheme of doing combination checkrides is a serious mistake. In my opinion, there is now way that you can seriously prepare for a Commercial Checkride and also do your CFI checkride and be dedicated to knowing the material in both areas. Yes, the flying may be similar maneuver wise, but what else is there at this stage in training, of course the flying is similar. There is alot that goes into being a good CFI, if you are seriously dedicated its not just having some notes on some binder paper so you can teach aerodynamics. Im starting to question the quality of education here in an effort to save "time and money." I just dont think that you can take yourself seriously and prepare for two seperate ratings at the same time....I disagree about them bieng that same checkrides, not similar material, as they are, but a rating to teach and be paid, to me means that you better know your sh*t and you better be good at teaching it....the integrity and reputation that will accompany this system will show in time.

 

NorCalHeliKid -

 

Wow...interesting take on the check ride issue. I am not so sure that I agree with you however. The bottom line is that if you study and are prepared for both checkrides, what is the harm in taking them both at the same time? Also, I assume if you are not competent to pass one, or both, the DE/FAA will pink you, unless the thought is that the DEs really don't know their job.

 

I have been a fixed wing CFI/CFII for 18 years, and frankly, every student that I taught was about saving "time and money". I have always encouraged my students to do what they could to save as much of both as they could. In the end, the more of both you have, the more time you get in the aircraft. The front line is the CFI/CFIIs. The bottom line is that we, the instructors have to sign the 8710, not the student and not the DE. If there are questions about the quality of the education, those issues reside with the endorsing instructor, not the student trying to save a few bucks (IMHO).

 

If a pilot is competent to take and pass two checkrides at once, and the person signing the 8710 agrees, then I say go for it!

Edited March 1, 2008 by HeloJunkie