Is the high-hour turbine instructor as good as the high-hour R44 instructor?

[cherminator]

I will be starting my training soon and will be purchasing my own R44 as well.

 

I have the option to make a three hour round trip a few times a week and train with a high-time R22/R44 instructor (who also happens to be a pilot examiner and radio licence examiner), or stay in my own town and train with a high-time turbine instructor (who also happens to teach advanced flying courses) who has only 10 hours in an R44 and but would take a one week R44 refresher course if I was to train with him.

 

I would humbly like to ask you all your opinions on which instructor would be better suited to me, or does it really matter?

 

A few other points to consider are:

 

The R44 guy trains in a larger city with much more air traffic.

The R44 guy has his own R44, so I wouldn't have to train in my own R44 right off the bat.

 

The turbine guy is local so I would be building a long-term relationship with a local school and it's pilots.

The turbine guy is about ten minutes away.

I would be training in my own machine from day one with the turbine guy as his school doesn't own one.

 

I look forward to your responses.

Edited April 1, 2008 by cherminator

[RotorWeed]

Why not fly with both of them?

[cherminator]

Why not fly with both of them?

 

 

Isn't flight training sort of structured? ie. you follow a schedule or program laid out by the instructor? I'm not sure how that would work. I know the R44 guy trains five people at a time with very specific start dates.

[cruise475]

Isn't flight training sort of structured? ie. you follow a schedule or program laid out by the instructor? I'm not sure how that would work. I know the R44 guy trains five people at a time with very specific start dates.

 

wouldent hurt to get both

[PhotoFlyer]

If the turbine guy only has 10 hours in the 44 he can't instruct in it. You need 50 hours of 44 time, or 25 hours of 22 time and 25 hours of 44 time. Plus he needs an additional endorsement in order to instruct.

[jtravis1]

>>>>>>>>

Edited January 25, 2009 by jtravis1

[jtravis1]

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Edited January 25, 2009 by jtravis1

[RotorWeed]

SFAR 73 expired yesterday

[cherminator]

He would need to meet the requirements of SFAR 73. (50 hrs if he has no 22 time). If he has only 10 hrs, that is a bunch of flying. Just making sure you are aware of this. Also needs to be signed off by a DPE to instruct in type. Here is an excerpt.

 

(5) No certificated flight instructor may provide instruction or conduct a flight review in a Robinson R-22 or R-44 unless that instructor --

 

 

(ii) For the Robinson R-22, has had at least 200 flight hours in helicopters, at least 50 flight hours of which were in the Robinson R-22, or for the Robinson R-44, has had at least 200 flight hours in helicopters, 50 flight hours of which were in Robinson helicopters. Up to 25 flight hours of Robinson R-22 flight time may be credited toward the 50 hour requirement.

 

(iv) Has been authorized by endorsement from an FAA aviation safety inspector or authorized designated examiner that the instructor has completed the appropriate training, meets the experience requirements and has satisfactorily demonstrated an ability to provide instruction on the general subject areas of paragraph 2(a)(3) of this SFAR, and the flight training identified in paragraph 2((5)(iii) of this SFAR

 

 

Thank you all for your responses so far.

 

I live in Canada. Are the rules the same here as in the U.S.? I find it hard to believe the turbine guy and his school wouldn't be aware of this as they are very highly regarded in the industry.

 

For the sake of simplicity, let's assume he will legally be able to instruct me when the time comes. Which of the two instructors would you recommend based on what I have stated in my first post?

[RotorWeed]

Thank you all for your responses so far.

 

I live in Canada. Are the rules the same here as in the U.S.? I find it hard to believe the turbine guy and his school wouldn't be aware of this as they are very highly regarded in the industry.

 

For the sake of simplicity, let's assume he will legally be able to instruct me when the time comes. Which of the two instructors would you recommend based on what I have stated in my first post?

 

SFAR 73 was only in the United States, it was part of Title 14 of the CFRs. It expired on March 31 2008

[67november]

Hey Cherm, since you're in Canada, goto verticalmag.com and PM Helilog56 your question and he'll steer you in the right direction. tell him I sent you tto him and say hi for me

[Goldy]

I'm sure the turbine guy is a great instructor. SFAR only applies in the US, and yes, it WAS renewed and is now in full force (again). However the R44 is not a turbine ship, it does not share characteristics with the Bell 206 or A Star....it is different, and I would fully recommend you go to the Robbie guy for your training.

 

Then go to the Robbie course in TOA, and then spend a couple hours with Simon in his 44 in LA...

 

Just my 2 cents. Goldy

[FauxZ]

I would do the initial training with the R44 guy, then get the advanced training with the Turbine guy. Learn the basics with someone who is teaching them in that aircraft regularly and recently. The big picture stuff would be great to get from the high time guy.

 

Then again, I'd probably just stay close to home since a 3 hour commute to go train would not make me too happy.

[Future206Pilot]

SFAR 73 was only in the United States, it was part of Title 14 of the CFRs. It expired on March 31 2008

 

 

Renewed. But only for (approx) a year this time. Until June 30, 2009

 

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/ru...ia/Robinson.pdf

[K-38]

I would recommend doing your R-44 training with an R-44 instructor. I'm sure the high time turbine pilot is very capable, but the robbies are a different animal. Auto's with a low inertia rotor system are different from turbine ships, and if he hasn't flown a robbie yet befor the 10 hour transition I dont know how comfortable I would be with the situation. I also second Goldy's suggestion of getting some advanced training with Simon in the 44 when you are done. I learned a lot from him. Good luck.

[apiaguy]

I would stay put and get the instruction from the turbine guy. The R44 has a "higher inertia" rotor.... not like the 22.

The traveling would be a major hassle and scheduling would be a problem with his 5 other students when you want to arrive for a weekend and fly, fly, fly.

The R44 is not going to give you any problems that is going to need some special instructor.

The turbine instructor is probabally going to have more available time for you and more frequent lessons.

[cherminator]

This is the kind of debate I was hoping for. Thank you all for your responses so far. I seem to go back and forth with each post. I was really hoping for a response like apiaguys response as I really dread the three hour round trip drive each day.

[Darren Hughes]

How about doing your initial training with the local turbine instructor and then moving on to the high time 44 instructor for the more advanced training. Pretty much any instructor can bring you up to the private pilot or commercial standard by teaching you from the basics all the way to standard 90 & 180 autos. Your local instructor would be perfect for this.

 

When you've become comfortable in the cockpit you will then reap the benefits of the High time (R44 Specific) instructor. As he flies a R44 every day he will have a much better feel for it & he will be able to show you some of the much finer points to the ship, especially when it comes to stuff like advanced auto's and the really subtle things you can do to help you hit your landing spot, etc......

 

It may also be better to do the initial training closer to home with the turbine guy because with training sessions closer together, and less travel time to the school you will retain more of the information learned not to mention feel for the helicopter, thus resulting in getting to you're desired rating or license faster and more efficiently.

 

All this is subject to the Canadian authorities not having an equivalent rule to the FAA's SFAR 73.

[Marc D]

I would recommend that you have your local "turbine" instructor do about 10 hours of intensive R44 specific training with your "R44 instructor". This way the two of them can join skills to make you a well rounded pilot. If the two of them fly together, the "turbine" guy should be able to see any limitations he has in the R44 and they can determine whether or not you will need to go to the "R44 guy". If your "turbine" guy flies with an experienced R44 instructor(even 5 hours), he should be completely adequate to do all your training. Although it would ultimately be good to fly with both of them for some of the training.

I have over 3000 hours in Robinsons(1000 R44) and have transitioned many people to the R44. I have lots of experience with this. If you were asking to do the same in the R22 I would say just the opposite, but the R44 is quite a different machine. Much more forgiving.

 

Marc D.

[Oil Pilot]

the R44 is not a turbine ship, it does not share characteristics with the Bell 206 or A Star....it is different, and I would fully recommend you go to the Robbie guy for your training.

 

The R-44 flies very similar to the 206. It autos almost exactly like a 206. The turbine guy already has 10 hours in the 44, I don't personally see a problem with learning from him. The only real differences between the two are the type of engine and the cyclic. Once someone grasps those two differences, it's just another helicopter with EPs that come straight out of the POH.

[cctk2]

I would be strongly inclined to do the local turbine route.... a big factor is the convenience to frequent training flights.......... the 3 hours drive would get REAL OLD, REAL FAST...

Im sure the R44 TT will look good for insurance, and with all the training being in the aircraft that Id be owning.... but Im confident the rating in a 'like' aircraft will leave me with a straight forward transition opportunity... I thnk Id train local.

[Miloe]

Maybe another angle once you have your ppl.

Since you'll have your own r44, the 3 hour drive could translate into something like an hour flight possibly. Build time and avoid traffic.