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How is the professional pilot outlook doing these days?


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#21 Sparker

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 21:35

 

 

No, that's not the genius.  Pilot-hopefulls pay you to work for you, buying a job in which you make money off your employer and the people you harass into buying pictures.  The genius is that you've managed to get blood out of a stone, with the pilots being the stone.

 

Where are these helicopter pilots who have been springboarded by boatpix into a 200,000 dollar helicopter money machine?

 

Read it again.

 

 I know guys that make $200K a year and have great lives.

 

He never said what their job was.



#22 avbug

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 03:33

I know exactly what he said, and also what he implied.  I know what he was suggesting when he said it, and I know why it's deceitful, just like the practice of selling "jobs" and getting employees to pay for revenue flights, rather than get paid.

 

Two hundred thousand dollar helicopter jobs?  Bullshit.


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#23 adam32

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 11:14

I know exactly what he said, and also what he implied.  I know what he was suggesting when he said it, and I know why it's deceitful, just like the practice of selling "jobs" and getting employees to pay for revenue flights, rather than get paid.
 
Two hundred thousand dollar helicopter jobs?  Bullshit.


100% spot on.
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#24 Astro

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 17:27

I know guys that make $200K a year and have great lives.

Yeah, the doctors and lawyers who own the boats!

#25 chris pochari

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 18:03

There isn't much money in aviation. I sure wouldn't plan on flying heli's for a living. EMS pilots get paid around $60,000, truck drivers make more than that. And as wally said, with AI (Artificial intelligence) eventually many routine helicopter operations such as offshore will be automated. 



#26 Wally

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 20:08

There isn't much money in aviation. I sure wouldn't plan on flying heli's for a living. EMS pilots get paid around $60,000, truck drivers make more than that. And as wally said, with AI (Artificial intelligence) eventually many routine helicopter operations such as offshore will be automated. 

 

I'm afraid I was not clear- automation will reduce the number of working pilots, but the effect in passenger carry flights will be minimal well into the future. Autopilots regularly cause accidents.

UAVs will become a major force in moving 'stuff' and looking at other stuff, jobs that require at the very least a pilot and often somebody to operate equipment.


Just a pilot (retired, so I have a LOT of time)...


#27 Astro

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 20:20

So when all the "moving stuff" and "looking at stuff" jobs go to drones, I suppose we'll need 5,000 hours just to get on with Papillon?

#28 chris pochari

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 20:42

 

I'm afraid I was not clear- automation will reduce the number of working pilots, but the effect in passenger carry flights will be minimal well into the future. Autopilots regularly cause accidents.

UAVs will become a major force in moving 'stuff' and looking at other stuff, jobs that require at the very least a pilot and often somebody to operate equipment.

Well with Sikorsky developing an autonomous s-76 and KMAX and lockheed as as well as many other manufactures all working on autonomous aircraft I think I'm pretty bullish (as wall street traders say) on autopilot systems. No doubt a pilot will be required but he will be called a "systems manager" instead.



#29 avbug

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 20:57

 

Autopilots regularly cause accidents.

 

 

 

They really don't.  Pilots who fail to properly use autopilots, misunderstand systems, act complacently, or utilize automation in ways it ought not be used, cause mishaps.  

 

One of the best known mishaps involving autopilot usage was Eastern Airlines #401, which crashed in the Everglades.  The autopilot was in use and the crew was troubleshooting a landing gear indication problem.  The autopilot in that case had disconnected, and a slow drift down occurred when the crew thought altitude would be held.  This was a crew failing, not an automation failing; the crew should have monitored altitude and shouldn't have devoted 100% of their attention to the indication problem.  

 

The "autopilot" is nothing more than an alternate flight control path from the cockpit, and greatly enhances safety if used correctly.  It doesn't cause accidents, though inappropriate use can result in them.  That's a pilot issue which goes back to rule #1: fly the damn aircraft.  It doesn't matter if it's hands on a stick, yoke, cyclic, collective, column, etc, or fingers on buttons, FMC's, manual descent wheels, mode controllers, etc.  It's still the pilot's responsibility to ensure the safe outcome of the flight; the autopilot is just another cockpit control to be used while accomplishing that level of safety. 



#30 Sparker

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 21:52

I know exactly what he said, and also what he implied.  I know what he was suggesting when he said it, and I know why it's deceitful, just like the practice of selling "jobs" and getting employees to pay for revenue flights, rather than get paid.

 

Two hundred thousand dollar helicopter jobs?  Bullshit.

 

You must get bored easily. You seem to try to pick fights with people who are trying to agree with you. I was calling BS on his post as well, and you seem to have interpreted it as I was calling you stupid. oh well


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#31 avbug

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 01:54

There's no fight.  My original statement was precise and correct, as was my follow-up, with no need to read previous statements again.

 

You're looking for a fight that isn't there.  I said nothing of "stupid."  



#32 takefootoff

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 02:59

Hey fellas! The ATC academy is going pretty well so far. Haven't bumped in to any cfi low timers like myself but I've met a few RJ pilots. They are pretty cool dudes, but no where near as cynical as we are.

I honestly can't thank avbug and his motivations enough, for inspiring me to apply to the FAA.

#33 Guest_pokey_*

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 08:09

 

You must get bored easily.  oh well

 

Bored is not the bug's problem. His is a very complicated medical ailment. The highly technical term for it begins with the letter "D". His particular condition is further complicated and best described with the addition of a colorful adjective beginning with the letter "F" preceding his "D" ailment. Treatment of this disease over the internet is futile & qualified medical professionals should be consulted. Any attempt to do so usually results in the patient to succumb to another dreaded and equally obnoxious condition, medical term again modified with the colorful "F" adjective, plus the addition of another "F" word (flaming).  This then followed by another highly technical medical term that begins with the letter "A".  Again, i warn of non professional treatment.  Either of these conditions are best laughed off & the patient will soon grow tired with you and claim to ignore you.


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#34 Sparker

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 09:54

Hey fellas! The ATC academy is going pretty well so far. Haven't bumped in to any cfi low timers like myself but I've met a few RJ pilots. They are pretty cool dudes, but no where near as cynical as we are.

I honestly can't thank avbug and his motivations enough, for inspiring me to apply to the FAA.

 

This might be the best summary of how the professional pilot outlook is these days. I was going to apply to academy but the age cutoff is 30 or 31 I believe.

 

Edit:

 

To be clear, there are professional pilot jobs but in my opinion unless you fall asleep dreaming of flying the grind to get there isn't worth it. CFI, then Tours for years, low pay, by the time you get into the field you think you want to fly in you may be 7-10+ years into it and still not getting paid much.


Edited by Sparker, 06 May 2017 - 09:56.

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#35 Astro

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 11:39

This might be the best summary of how the professional pilot outlook is these days. I was going to apply to academy but the age cutoff is 30 or 31 I believe.
 
Edit:
 
To be clear, there are professional pilot jobs but in my opinion unless you fall asleep dreaming of flying the grind to get there isn't worth it. CFI, then Tours for years, low pay, by the time you get into the field you think you want to fly in you may be 7-10+ years into it and still not getting paid much.


Me too, too old for ATC!

#36 mudkow60

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 11:49

Look at Orange County Fire pay... there are high paying jobs...



#37 Hand_Grenade_Pilot

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 14:05

When people approach me about starting a career as a pilot, I encourage them to fly fixed wing. While I have no regrets about my career choice, the future of helicopter aviation does not look promising.

HEMS will eventually be more strictly regulated, which I anticipate will result in companies reducing number of aircraft and bases and less jobs available.

As natural and renewable energy takes over, the oil and gas sector will shrink. I also anticipate more of a shift from light ships to twins as the oil reservoirs along the shelf are depleted.

Aerial surveying can be done more efficiently with drones now. I built a lot of hours as a CFI taking photographers around getting real estate shots; I'd imagine flight schools now are getting less and less of this work.

Tours will remain strong... but what an absolutely miserable flying job.

As for the pay; pretty disappointing unless you fly for the government, or mediums/heavies in the utility or O&G sectors. Or you're one of the lucky few doing all the major cinematography work. Ag work can pay a lot, but it's not the kind of work most pilots want.

I plan to fly offshore as long as I can ride that gravy train, but the next step is always in the back of my mind.
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Aviation is a cruel mistress. When she's not taking your money, she's coming up with creative ways to kill you.

#38 KeiserSosa

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 20:13

Ok you clearly need to here from someone who is HAPPY and made it to where you might want to go.

 

Finished civilian flight school at 25 years old CFII Heli plus SE Land FW private instrument.  

 

Instructed for 2 years for sh*t pay worked 7 days a week ,I was really a paid intern. worked with a great bunch a guys that i'm tight with to this day  who are are also  ALL also very successful in this business. You will find out here if this is for you . Its is extremely hard job for the risk and pay. However loads of fun and great experience over all I don't regret one minute of it.

 

At 27 Recruited  to fly at turbine operator .  3 times the pay slightly better hours. tours and eventually charter in twin turbines.

 

 

at 31 recruited to fly medium twins  EMS NVG and eventually IFR for a great operator. I have an amazing schedule and home life. paid six figures to work half the year plus vacation on top of that benefits 401k matching etc etc etc.  Deff haven't hit the pay ceiling in my region and have a stacked resume.

 

Pay is relative and last time I checked  the majority of us do far better than most people who number 1 more likely than not hate there jobs  and  number 2 prob get paid far less. oh not to mention have  a quarter of the time off. Don't believe me do you own research into average pay for occupations that take at a minimum BS or masters. See how the pay stacks up against us rotor jocks. you will be surprised and the majority of those people get into there chosen profession for the money and no other reason HAH!

 

 

As far as  military guys having any kind of  advantage in the civilian helicopter market  , Ironically this couldn't be further from the truth. 

 
 

I can tell you from experience that the only thing operators care about IN THIS MARKET is your flight time and experience as a helicopter pilot as well aswhat kind of employee you are.  All the operators out there have there minimums and don't budge . They don't care if you were the POTUS, pope,  or Jesus personal pilot in  10 engine stealth copter the mins are the mins and no one CARES.

 

This is a hard truth for the majority of modern MIL heli guys . They just don't rack up the time like Vietnam era guys . A large majority of them get out of the mill they realize its time to go flight instruct in R-22s with guys that have 200hrs to get the min time for a tour job.The other problem for them is recency, some of them haven't flown in years trust me it makes a difference for the interview ! So they usually go on to say there's no money in flying  because all there qualified for is entry level jobs and are stuck with all the other guys trying to bust in and are ready to SWEAT and BLEED to get there!  

 

SALTY old school MIL guys don't agree? AHAH with all do respect this not the late 70s and 80s and this job has turned into a viable lucrative career path for individuals that have the aptitude and motivation to stay the course.  The real question is are you ready to work your ass off to get to the finish line . There is no way to get ahead in any field with out intense dedication combined with the willingness to take risk financial or otherwise. You tell me how that's different from any other occupation the world! 

 

AS far as UAVS well know one knows for sure what kind of impact they will have. The technology is in its infancy ,no one on this site or really anywhere can tell you what will take place in the next 30 years. It has been stated by the very men that are fielding and implementing these systems in the the military arena that  there are circumstances where it will never be suitable or logical to hand over the lives of passengers to an AI pilot. If its not a combat or a hostile environment what purpose what it serve to take out the human back up , NONE!  Also Pilots are a cheap part of the total operating

cost.

 

Bottom Line Heli pilots will be here at the very least until your potential retirement. If you want this, Its totally possible. No ones going to give it you , you have to bust down the doors and make it happen.

 

 


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#39 UH60L-IP

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 20:43

The only industries with higher divorce rates are the military and law enforcement...

 

Oh great. I'm a full time civilian pilot, a National Guardsman, and a part-time police officer. I better run down to the courthouse on Monday to file my divorce paperwork before she does.


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#40 r22butters

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 00:14

Such doom and gloom!  Well something tells me this year's Helisuccess is going to be a hoot!?  :lol:


The only dream I have left is to live long enough to see the pilot shortage. Its been about fifteen years since they first told me it was coming, so,...

Aaaaaaaany day now! :D




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