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Alouette Helicopters Declared Illegal Immigrants by the FAA


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I was wondering the same thing as CBiPilotFL.... has anyone contacted AOPA? They do a good job with problems like this.

 

bossman, if you're not an AOPA member, PM me your contact info and I'll use my membership to see if I can get someone from AOPA to contact you.

The AOPA is already involved. Joe (chief pilot) spoke to them today after our briefing with Congressman Rahall. Guess what???????????????? The FAA has backed out of the meeting. They don't even have the balls to sit across the table and let us look them in the eye as they try to take everything we've worked for. They said they will "brief" our Congressmen, but will not let us sit in. They will not even meet with us without the Congressmen. They sent Rahall a letter that sites our wire strike accident as a basis for saying the aircraft are unsafe. Our accident was a straight up, didn't see it, wire strike. Nothing to do with the aircraft. I guess the Congressmen are going to take our concerns to the FAA. I just wish we could be there to counter their lies.

MARPAT is going to have an open house next month and do $5.00 helicopter rides. Guess what helicopter we are going to use. Right now we have no legal recourse under the 44709 inspection. We are going to force them to violate us in order to force them in front of a judge. We have no income they'll have a hard time collecting the $10,000.00 a day fine.

bossman

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The AOPA is already involved. Joe (chief pilot) spoke to them today after our briefing with Congressman Rahall. Guess what???????????????? The FAA has backed out of the meeting. They don't even have the balls to sit across the table and let us look them in the eye as they try to take everything we've worked for. They said they will "brief" our Congressmen, but will not let us sit in. They will not even meet with us without the Congressmen. They sent Rahall a letter that sites our wire strike accident as a basis for saying the aircraft are unsafe. Our accident was a straight up, didn't see it, wire strike. Nothing to do with the aircraft. I guess the Congressmen are going to take our concerns to the FAA. I just wish we could be there to counter their lies.

MARPAT is going to have an open house next month and do $5.00 helicopter rides. Guess what helicopter we are going to use. Right now we have no legal recourse under the 44709 inspection. We are going to force them to violate us in order to force them in front of a judge. We have no income they'll have a hard time collecting the $10,000.00 a day fine.

bossman

Dude......... what a travesty you are having to suffer and FOR WHAT?!!!!???!!!!! :angry: This REALLY ticks me to the core :angry: :angry: :angry: , the stupid useless Government sometimes,do they really this often forget that they are US to serve US, not themselves and their own interests? ( rhetorical question of course )

I really hope and wish you the best of luck with this.

Edited by captkirkyota
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MARPAT is going to have an open house next month and do $5.00 helicopter rides. Guess what helicopter we are going to use. Right now we have no legal recourse under the 44709 inspection. We are going to force them to violate us in order to force them in front of a judge. We have no income they'll have a hard time collecting the $10,000.00 a day fine.

bossman

 

I hope you have a good attorney representing you, one that is well versed in Aviation Law. The FAA falls under administrative law, not civil law. This is an entirely different animal, one that if you clearly don't understand it, can have bad results.

 

If you get violated for using the helicopters for your rides, the $10,000 fine will be the least of your problems. You could possibly have ALL your ratings revoked along with several FAR violations. And the judge this goes before is an Administrative Judge, which usually sides with the FAA.

 

The best and proper way to handle the situation is through both legal and political avenues. If you try a stunt such as using the helicopter in spite of what they have deemed, then you are setting yourself up for a much longer prolong battle in which you will never have enough $$$ to win.

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It is my understanding that an Export C of A is not a requirement. I have imported several airplanes without it. One had the FAA conformity inspection in Switzerland. The others had it done in the US. Two of these aircraft went through a NASIP inspection. The National Aviation Safety Inspection Program is an inspection of an air carrier's operation by 'experts' from Washington, Oak City and the various regions. And they passed with flying colors. I know of two ex-military Hawkers that were imported that were placed on the US civil registry with the FAA's blessing.

 

If the FAA's action is based on an alleged bogus conformity inspection, then they should allow you to do another one to prove conformity. Unfortunately, lately the FAA inspectors are lacking experience and when they act on aircraft airworthiness, they tend not to let up, until it is shoved up their tails.

 

Also it sounds like Eurocopter is doing their normal act. 'It's not our helicopter'. If it isn't new they don't know you.

 

Good luck.

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We've already done the conformity inspection. Everything passed except the export C of A. One of our aircraft was certified by an FAA inspector out of the Salt Lake City FSDO in 2001. The conformity inspection is the problem once you submit you can't be released until everything is cleared. We do not have the paper they want, as far as we know it never existed, it's not a required piece of aircraft records, we did not certify the aircraft, the FAA did. The FAR's clearly state "an Export C of A, or other cettifying documents. We have Letters of Attestation from the French and German governments, stating that ALL Alouettes produced were from the same assembly line and ALL Alouettes conform to the US type certificate. This is the document used for the last 30 years to certify these aircraft, suddenly it's not the piece of paper the FAA wants. We continue the battle.

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Guest pokey

Its a bad idea to try & 'fight' the FAA,,,,, everyone i have ever known that tried is in werse trouble in the end. ALSO bad idea to get a violation just to get in front of a judge,,,,,,,like JetTrash says, they are all birds of a feather, and different birds from us poe foke. Best thing ya can hope for is ya find one FAA person that you can 'convince' to be on your side. You stated that the FAR's say "OR' other documents?,,,, maybe try approach as to playing dumb & asking "ok, what documents can we get to get me back in business & flying again?" They really are here to help, at times its just not clear WTF they are trying to help. & having that accident w/ the one sure dont help matters :( hope ya get this 'fixt' B4 the bank account is drained.

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Its a bad idea to try & 'fight' the FAA,,,,, everyone i have ever known that tried is in werse trouble in the end. ALSO bad idea to get a violation just to get in front of a judge,,,,,,,like JetTrash says, they are all birds of a feather, and different birds from us poe foke. Best thing ya can hope for is ya find one FAA person that you can 'convince' to be on your side. You stated that the FAR's say "OR' other documents?,,,, maybe try approach as to playing dumb & asking "ok, what documents can we get to get me back in business & flying again?" They really are here to help, at times its just not clear WTF they are trying to help. & having that accident w/ the one sure dont help matters :( hope ya get this 'fixt' B4 the bank account is drained.

Pokey,

Are you saying that we should all bow down and kiss the feet of the FAA? We should not fight for what we think is right? We have tried the ask for guidance approach. They refuse to give any. We offered to pay for the French and Germans to come look at the aircraft. No deal. We submitted to the 44709 conformity inspection, bad idea. Now all cooperation is off the table. We will not submit to anything else. If they want something they'll have to go before a judge and get it. As far as the accident goes, it was a straight up wire strike, didn't see it and hit it. Already been investigated and blessed as pilot error.

bossman

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Guest pokey
Pokey,

Are you saying that we should all bow down and kiss the feet of the FAA?

 

Not at all Bossman, just make them think that you are ;)

 

FAA is like a tiger by the tail the more ya pull, the werse the bite. They really are our FriendlyAviationAssociates-----------the trick is not to let them know that you know. & hopefully B4 they run ya out of business :(

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I have to respectfully disagree just a bit, with whether or not the FAA is friendly and on our side. I think Ronald Reagan said it best.....

 

 

"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

- Ronald Reagan

 

;)

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Not at all Bossman, just make them think that you are ;)

 

FAA is like a tiger by the tail the more ya pull, the werse the bite. They really are our FriendlyAviationAssociates-----------the trick is not to let them know that you know. & hopefully B4 they run ya out of business :(

I've never been one to "beat about the bush". It's not hard to know where I stand on issues. Maybe that's a fault. You know, the aviation end of my businesses was just beginning to move into the black. I guess the old saying is correct; "If you want to make a million dollars in aviation, start with two".

bossman

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Guest pokey

ya know Bossman? for all its worth, i really do feel for ya. YOU as well as EVERY reader of this post (including myself) knows that you were "railroaded".

 

I've seen (been involved) with the FAA in "action" ( i never had the tiger by the tail myself tho) & i know that IF you can find one of them on yer side, it is a B I G plus.

 

dont take this as advice, but, IF you can afford it? park the Allouette's & let the FAA cool off till ya can find someone in that organization that is willing to help, rather than beat yer head against the wall.

 

Fly yer Huey !

 

I'm sure you already contacted or have been contacted by every other Allouette owner in the country?

 

let this tiger run its course,,,,,,

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Guest pokey
I have to respectfully disagree just a bit, with whether or not the FAA is friendly and on our side. I think Ronald Reagan said it best.....

 

 

"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

- Ronald Reagan

 

;)

 

i cant argue w/ that !

 

the one thing i can say in my defense is: "some" of the ppls that i have met that are FAA actually ARE human, NO REALLY ! they are ! :blink: they have since retired OR died, but they really were here to help.

 

those are the ones ya need to find & get on yer side Bossman, it wont happen tomorrow tho. dont spin yer wheels if ya can help it.

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Bossman, the FAA has learned over the years not to have the operator present during their meetings with Congressional types. They have been caught in too many lies. Most likely you will need to go much further up the food chain. Personally, I start in Washington, as I have found that do-do rolls downhill faster if you start at the top. You really need to deal with someone outside your FSDO. It sounds like someone there doesn't like you. The FAA and DOT have each have an Inspector General's Office. It appears that you have bent over backwards to work with the FSDO, so it is time to complain to upper management. The FAA also has a customer feedback site www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/qms I know from experience that site does get results.

 

Good luck.

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...We had the French and Germans lined up to come over and inspect these aircraft for conformity (at our expense), but the FAA said they would accept nothing but an Export C of A. The French DGAC cannot issue this paper because the aircraft are already in the US and certified in normal category. We have taken our offer to bring the French over, off the table...

Bossman, sorry to hear about your situation. What about returning the aircraft to France, having them certify them, issue the Export C of A, then return to the U.S.? Pardonnez-moi???, c'est impossible! you say? :blink:

 

A little known fact in North America is you are not as far from France as you might think! Saint Pierre and Miquelon are a group of small islands off the eastern coast of Canada near Newfoundland. The islands are part of France and form the Territorial Collectivity of Saint Pierre and Miquelon. There is an airport on Saint-Pierre LFVP and one on Miquelon LFVM, both listed in the Canadian Flight Supplement (CFS).

 

http://www.st-pierre-et-miquelon.com/english/index.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Pierre_and_Miquelon

 

Good Luck!

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Bossman, the FAA has learned over the years not to have the operator present during their meetings with Congressional types. They have been caught in too many lies. Most likely you will need to go much further up the food chain. Personally, I start in Washington, as I have found that do-do rolls downhill faster if you start at the top. You really need to deal with someone outside your FSDO. It sounds like someone there doesn't like you. The FAA and DOT have each have an Inspector General's Office. It appears that you have bent over backwards to work with the FSDO, so it is time to complain to upper management. The FAA also has a customer feedback site www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/qms I know from experience that site does get results.

 

Good luck.

Been to all the FAA web sites. Made complaints, asked questions, asked for help. Not there , can't get it, good luck, don't want to fool with it. This has been the responce. We can't go any higher than AFS1 Bellough. The next step is Blakely and she won't talk to us. The FSDO has not been involved except to pass us to Rotorcraft Directorate in Texas. Made complaints to the IG of DOT. Have heard nothing. Asked for documents under the FOIA. They said they could get no documents because of an internal FAA investigation.

bossman

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Bossman -

 

I agree with the earlier post from jet trash; I can fully appreciate and understand your absolute frustration, anger and courage with this whole fiasco...but I implore you to not risk the consequences to your ratings (and potentially losing everything else you and your company/family have rightfully earned) by doing the flights next month. Doing so might provide the FAA another opportunity to say, "...look, we told ya so - not only do they operate unsafe aircraft, but they purposefully and intentionally break our regs..."; don't give them any further satisfaction or let them control your emotions. And too, any great powers that could help provide support in your favor might walk away after something like that. I didn't read any suggestions for support from HAI, but have they been able to help? (a call to Matt Zuccaro might help light some more fires, but my guess is you have already done so). AOPA can only do so much, but I would expect HAI, whether Marpat is a member or not, would want to dig thier claws into this. Not that it helps much, but, like many others here, I am concerned for you and will assist in whatever (minor) way to the extent that I can from the west coast.

 

-WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

 

p.s. - maybe you should put the helo on a trailer and drop it off in front of the FAA with some nice banners describing the situation...nothing like an oddity in DC to get the cameras rolling and spread coverage of the misery.

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Guest pokey
p.s. - maybe you should put the helo on a trailer and drop it off in front of the FAA with some nice banners describing the situation...nothing like an oddity in DC to get the cameras rolling and spread coverage of the misery.

 

THAT's the best idea i heard yet ! ;)

 

sending 'em back to France is a close 2nd tho, but? i bet FAA wont let them out of country w/out some sort of export certificate? :blink:

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THAT's the best idea i heard yet ! ;)

 

sending 'em back to France is a close 2nd tho, but? i bet FAA wont let them out of country w/out some sort of export certificate? :blink:

The French had already agreed to come over here and inspect and give the FAA whatever they needed except an Export C of A because the aircraft are already certificated US aircraft. The FAA says it is an export c of a or nothing. You are correct in stating that they will not let them out of the country because they (faa) will not give them an export c of a.

bossman

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Bossman,

 

Sort of following up with what Arotrhd suggested, what about going to the media with this? The press loves to do “investigative” stories like these when innocent, hard-working people get swallowed up by government bureaucracies and their nonsensical policies. Most news websites have a link to submit news tips or investigative reports (or the like).

 

If you could stir that hornets’ nest and get those reporters on the case, at the least it would get the word out to the public (public pressure has a funny way of getting things done). And at the very best it may be that extra tiny “push” you need to get people to listen a little more carefully in positions that matter.

 

Just a suggestion.

 

Best of luck,

 

-V5

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Bossman,

 

Any news?

 

-V5

Our congressman met with Bellough's people. Bellough did not have the ba##s to meet with us or the congressman. They delivered somekind of a briefing. No one understood what they said. We were not allowed to be a part of the briefing. We can't get anyone from the FAA to sit down with us face to face. Loomis from Ft. Worth tells us that our response to the 44709 inspection has been sent to legal for an opinion. No idea how long that will take. Our contact in the congressman's office said that Bellough's people said they did not know what Ft. Worth was doing. That's been a complaint of ours all along, Washington tells us one thing and Ft. Worth does something else. Questions we ask our FSDO get sent to Region. We call Region and they tell us the FSDO should have handled the questions. So we sit here and watch the spiders build webs on our helicopters.

bossman

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Any thoughts guys????????????????????

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello Everyone,

 

As you are aware, we at Mikes Contracting have been complying with the 14 CFR 44709 inspection and not operating the Alouette N31330 until we are released by SW region upon review of our answer to their findings. We have been waiting for over 4 weeks now and nothing.

 

The findings were administrative in nature and were answered by referencing the appropriate FAR's but apparently even the FAA is unable to decipher what should be 8th grade material and in the mean time we sit getting closer and closer to closing our doors.

 

Given that the FAA has had over 4 years to figure out their position relative to this issue and with no clearly presented evidence that our aircraft is unsuitable to fly we feel that we must place the aircraft back in service until such time as someone in the FAA takes ownership of the issue and sits down with the affected parties to formulate a solution.

 

The demonstrated intent of the FAA to apply extreme measures to a segment of aircraft/owners that pose zero threat to safety, and zero threat to US manufacturers interests is beyond my understanding and the effort to place this mistake at the feet of owners and two Designated Representatives of the FAA is shameful. Lastly, the lack of planning and oversight prior to any attempt at addressing the issue is disgraceful for an agency that touts itself as "customer oriented".

 

Regards,

 

Joseph Altizer

Mikes Contracting LLC

Designatd Representative

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