Alouette Helicopters Declared Illegal Immigrants by the FAA

[Worldcrime]

We have a face to face scheduled in DC with AFS1 Bellough. It's only due to a congressional inquiry by our Senators and Congressmen. We have been trying to get him to set down with us for awhile. Until we got the Senators involved he would not even return our phone calls. We continue the fight. We had the French and Germans lined up to come over and inspect these aircraft for conformity (at our expense), but the FAA said they would accept nothing but an Export C of A. The French DGAC cannot issue this paper because the aircraft are already in the US and certified in normal category. We have taken our offer to bring the French over, off the table. Our days of trying to help the FAA fix a problem that they allowed to happen for 30 years is over. We want a grandfather clause. They can inspect for safety of flight and unapproved parts, if they want to, but the paper they want does not exist.

bossman

 

Best of luck in DC!

 

I'm a huge fan of the allouette and lama. The wheels of the faa grind slowly.

 

Richard (dc)

 

http://heli-wear.com

http://heli-safety.com

[jet trash]

If the NTSB law judge goes against us we can still appeal to a jury.

Mike

 

Jury? Since when is there a "jury" in administrative law?

 

Typically, if an administrative Judge denies the case, then it goes to a board of 3 administrative Judges.

[captkirkyota]

Good luck today (opps, I mean tomorrow , I thought today was the 11th and did not even look ) Marpat guys, just said a prayer for ya. Hope it ends today in your favor, since it seems that you guys are on the side that it right.

 

 

Edited because I was wrong about being today.

[Voluptuary5]

Best of luck, Bossman!!!

 

Give 'em hell!!!

 

 

-V5

[bossman]

Jury? Since when is there a "jury" in administrative law?

 

Typically, if an administrative Judge denies the case, then it goes to a board of 3 administrative Judges.

Since the FAA invoked the emergency revocation it throws us into a different light. That's why the quick hearing before the ntsb admin judge. If we request it we can go before a 6 person jury for the appeal. This action by the FAA is causing us irreputable harm in as much as it has us completely shut down in our pipeline business. We have already had to lay off 3 pilots and lost one large account.

bossman

[500E]

Good luck to day Bossman

[Tarantula]

Good luck bossman!

[Optigirl]

I wonderer if this be a one day event, Or will this take a long time, I know alot is riding on this outcome. I hope you can talk about it, If its permitted that is.

Courts just love keeping the case's in the dark tell the whole thing is over.

 

~Lana

[permison]

Anyone have an update???

[brushfire21]

I am on pins and needles!

[bossman]

The battle continues. The FAA asked for a summary judgement and it was granted. We could have stayed home. We were not allowed to even present a witness. What happen was, the FAA admitted that they have been certifying these helicopters wrong for 30 years. The law judge said they were right. He admonished the FAA for not working out their paperwork problem before going to emergency revocation. He said that every aircraft in the country that has been certified without an export c of a is now going to have to be looked at. Not just the Alouettes. We have appealed. We have also asked for injunctive relief is US district court here in West Virginia. The law judge told our attorney that it looks like the FAA is going to have to buy back all the Alouettes because they allowed a mistake to continue for 30 years and it became a practice. He also said that we should pursue a constitional avenue because there have been at least 10 other 44709 inspections carried out and the other ships did not have the paper and ours has been the only revocation. The other machines are still flying. I guess that is what we get for not laying down and rolling over. How dare us to stand up to the FAA. The law judge says he did us a favor by the ruling. His favor is not letting me fly and earn money. His favor is not letting our students take check rides.

bossman

[Copterpilot213]

Thanks for the update bossman, it sounds like so far it all boils down to

 

FAA = idiots

Your company = Screwed

 

I imagine making them buy your helicopters would help a little bit, but what about all the lost flight hours caused by this? Does this part "We have also asked for injunctive relief is US district court here in West Virginia." mean you're filing for damages basically?

 

Bossman, is there anything we can do to help draw the right peoples attention to this situation to fix it? It sounds like everyone that could be affected by this needs to lobby for a resolution. Make that everyone in the helicopter industry. Precedents like this cannot be allowed. The FAA needs to fix the trouble they caused by their incompetence!

[jet trash]

I imagine making them buy your helicopters would help a little bit, but what about all the lost flight hours caused by this?

 

Fat chance on getting the FAA, or any goverment agency to pay for anything.

[Voluptuary5]

Bossman,

 

Keep fighting this.

 

And what about Copter's comment? Anything the rest of us can do?

 

I said it earlier in this thread and I'll say it again but have you tried/thought about going to the media? They love these kind of stories. You know, David versus Goliath so-to-speak.

 

 

-V5

[captkirkyota]

20/20, John Stossel is the man. He loves to bring it hard to those that are wrong.

[bossman]

20/20, John Stossel is the man. He loves to bring it hard to those that are wrong.

We contacted 20/20. No response so far. Sent emails to most of the news magazines, no response. Maybe we are not a large enough piece of the pie.

bossman

[captkirkyota]

We contacted 20/20. No response so far. Sent emails to most of the news magazines, no response. Maybe we are not a large enough piece of the pie.

bossman

 

Well Bossman, as I said in a previous post, and can not really convey here, and not that it really offers any comfort or help to you guys, but I can not express just how much this infuriates me. I can not stand the arrogant, flagrant and complete and total abuse of power that is being done here with no regard to peoples lives, livelihood and no accountability or at least up to this point fear of accountability that is taking place here. This kind of stuff has always bugged me and I really feel for you guys.

I most certainly hope and will pray for the outcome to be a just one. You guys seem to be the little guy the big ignorant bully wants to pick on because he feels inadequate. Once again the founding fathers are proven correct again, that Gov. and its reach always tends to reach too far and abuse that power that the people entrust it with and enact things that harm those it is designed to protect. There is no reason for them to just not come and look at all heli's that fall under this mistake, make sure of their airworthiness and sign them off and let them continue to fly.

[Voluptuary5]

We contacted 20/20. No response so far. Sent emails to most of the news magazines, no response. Maybe we are not a large enough piece of the pie.

bossman

 

What about starting local? Many of the stories covered by the large news magazines and networks were picked up from their smaller, local affiliates. What about taking out an ad in a newspaper? That might get people's attention.

 

Just trying to think of ways to get "the public" involved and apply pressure. Government agencies like the FAA are there to serve the public, not the other way around.

 

 

-V5

[500E]

Bosman

Sorry to hear the present outcome, hope you can stay the course.

As I understand it, the judge is saying the ship is illegal, but the FAA, either knew, or due to incompetence for 30 years let them fly.

Under what rule are they the rest of these helicopters flying? one presumes that the insurance Co will not pay out if another one has an accident. ( Well judge the FAA grounded MPs Alouetts because they did not comply with the regs and therefore it is illegal to fly them so we will not cover or pay claims on any. )

Are there not some flying government contract work? (insurance??)

What are the other operators doing about the situation, they need to get together to lobby.

I hope they don't think it will go away once FAA start they will pick them off one by one.

As a non US citizen I do not understand the suggestion to pursue a constitutional option, is this to lobby your representative? if so there could be a FEW!! people that would Email them.

Is it possible for you to proceed against FAA for misrepresentation due to incompetence, or gross negligence

I presume the FAA in admitting that they got it wrong for 30 years, short circuited the court proceedings? and that is why you did not get your say.

Hope things get better for you soon

[Tarantula]

Any updates on this? Its been kinda quiet.

[bossman]

Any updates on this? Its been kinda quiet.

As stated before, the Law Judge ruled that the certificates had been issued in error. This is what the FAA admitted to and asked for summary judgement. The Law Judge ruled in favor of the FAA, thus upholding the revocation of the Airworthiness Certificates. The FAA will now embarke upon a campaign to pick off the owners one at a time. We have tried to get them together and they keep sticking their heads in the sand, hoping the FAA will not see the exposed parts. We have been the squeaky wheel and we got grease and then the shaft slid in easier. We are taking OUR case to civil court because there have been at least 10 other 44709 inspections done and the proper paperwork has not been found, but we are the only revocation. So we continue our battle.

bossman

[500E]

Glad to hear you are still fighting Bossman

The problem is the time it consumes, stopping you earning.

I still don't understand if the FAA admit t certifying these helicopters incorrectly for 30 Years how come they are not all grounded? surely one down all down, the other operators must be rather silly to think that they will stop with you, if I was in their shoes it would be in my interest to at least bank role you to some extent, allowing you to proceed against FAA

[Optigirl]

Bossman, Here is an Attorneny that gets results.

Edited October 3, 2007 by Optigirl

[bossman]

Bossman, Here is an Attorneny that gets results.

Optigirl,

Right now we are in the appeals process and filing for damages in federal court here in WV. Both are proceeding well. Our case for damages is very good. The FAA has examined at least 10 other aircraft under the 44709, none had the required paper. They emergency revoked our certificate because we told them we were going to still fly without the paper. The other operators chose to continue flying without informing the FAA. They are flying everyday. The difference with us was because we wanted to do check rides for our students. I think they have discriminated against us poor old hillbillys here in West Virginia.

bossman

[Optigirl]

Sorry Bossman !

 

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