Just a big kid watching Helicopters

[String Peddler]

I am not a pilot so please bear with me. I am fascinated by them though. I have been watching them work the Terrace Mnt Fire, Just north of Kelowna, BC, with their orange bucket. So cool!! Maybe someone can answer a question for me? I watch the skill of picking up the water and the flying to the fire. It looks like water leaks out of this bucket all the way to the drop point. Is this normal? How much would the bucket hold? How much is acceptable to leak out? Sorry for all the dumb questions. Thanks for any help and answers.

[RagMan]

As the helicopter carries the bambi bucket to the fire to drop, theres always some water that sloshes around, and spills out of the bucket. Most of the water stays in due to natural gravitational forces, and the force of the bucket being flown through the air.

 

As far as how much water can be flown, it all depends on the aircraft. There are many different size bambi buckets, but not only bambi buckets, but belly mounted buckets as well (not quite sure on the actual name of them, but many firehawks, 212's/412's, and skycranes are outfitted with them.) I think the bambi buckets the skycranes use are typically 1500 gallon buckets. Then they go down in capacity as the aircraft gets smaller in type.

[String Peddler]

Thanks RagMan.. I do see through my spyglasses water coming from the bottom.. Is this water spilling from the top and running down the bucket while in flight.

Are there any other typs of buckets used??

Thanks

[Goldy]

Depending on DA, Aircranes can lift about 22,000 pounds which is a lil more than 2500 gallons of water. Skycranes a lot less, all the way down to 125 gallon tanks for a 206. So just depends on the aircraft and the altitude they are flying at, their fuel loads, and the outside air temperatures.

 

Peddler- snap some photos and post them so we can all see !

 

Goldy

[Justin DBC]

Thanks RagMan.. I do see through my spyglasses water coming from the bottom.. Is this water spilling from the top and running down the bucket while in flight.

Are there any other typs of buckets used??

Thanks

 

 

Some water does come from the bottom of the bucket. That is the release point for the water and the seal is never 100% when you're dealing with a mechanism like that holding back such a large volume of water. It looks like a lot, but relitively there is very little water lost if the seal is working propperly. I've never actually noticed a drop in the water level en route to the target looking at it from above.

 

The only buckets I've seen are the Bambi buckets, but I haven't been around too long. As RagMan stated, they make them in a number of different sizes and there are a few different options you can put on them. They just started hooking us up with something called a turantula valve which allows you to get a full bucket from a water source that is only 18 inches deep!

 

Hope this answers your questions!

 

J-

[Goldy]

They just started hooking us up with something called a turantula valve which allows you to get a full bucket from a water source that is only 18 inches deep!

 

Hope this answers your questions!

 

J-

 

Yepp, its got the side mounted pump that fills the bucket right?

[Firepilot]

More than likely what you're actually seeing in water blowing out from the top of the bucket. (Imaging holding a brim full cup of coffee out of your car window at about 80mph/ 130kph) It kind of looks like a jet contrail. The amount of water leaking from the bladder on a Bambi Bucket would be very difficult to see from a distance.

 

Bambi Buckets (orange) vary in size from 96gal/270Ltr (Jetranger) to 2600gal/9840Ltr (Skycrane/Chinook)

 

BTW Skycrane=Aircrane.

[Goldy]

BTW Skycrane=Aircrane.

 

OK, not to get too picky, but Skycranes and Aircranes are a different animal of the same species. Sikorsky started out with the military version, the CH-54A, then started making the S-64A for civilian use. Erickson acquired the Type Cert back in 92, made over 1000 different modifications that allow the Erickson Aircrane to outperform the older style original Sikorsky Skycranes.

 

So, if you look at them both from a distance. ....same thing. Look at them up close, and you can start seeing obvious changes. The biggest change is with the newer F model, starting with the reinforced tail. The real changes are in performance numbers and load capabilities, but I am by no means an expert...I just know the Erickson boys are pretty proud of their "Aircranes".....dont dare call one a Skycrane within earshot.

 

The "F" variant has a hook weight of 25,000 pounds, up 5,000 pounds from the "E" version. Try lifting 25,000 pounds on the hook of a CH 54 or Sikorsky 64 Skycrane and you might just take out a transmission. BTW, the trans on the F version has a significantly higher rating than the older versions..7900 SHP vs 6600 SHP for 30 minutes....1300 extra horsepower available is nothing to sneeze at, (2200 extra horsepower continuous) and in my book, makes it an entirely different ship.

 

Best I can figure, there are 5 different models flying around, all with different max speeds, HP, Trans ratings and load capabilities. But the F model really stands alone, and I think Erickson has earned the right to rename their product.

 

Hey, I only know this stuff cause my CP flies one for a living....I pretend to pay attention when he fills my head with Aircrane facts and figures!

 

Besides, the last Aircrane pilot I met was a really big crusty old dude, I don't think I want to piss him off.

 

Goldy

[Firepilot]

Touched a nerve I guess. My point being, to the general public (I.E. String Peddler), an Erickson Aircrane and a Sikorsky Skycrane are the "same" aircraft. The same way a Squirrel is an A-star, regardless it a B,BA,B1,B2,B3,C,D,D1

 

Haven't seen heard too many voices raised when Air Attack, Helibase Managers, Division Sups, Air Ops or anyone else on a fire refer to one of Erickson's ships as a Skycrane. I'll keep listening, maybe I've been working with the wrong "Erickson boys."

Edited August 7, 2009 by Firepilot

[String Peddler]

Thanks all. I have noticed in the press release a bucket call a CloudBurst. Anybody know anything about this? Is it the same? How does it operate?

Thanks for all you help. I know i'm not in your industry but with all the action around these days it's hard not to be interested.

[Goldy]

String- check this out.. http://www.heli-hoyle.com/images/cloudburst_labelled.jpg

 

Firepilot- As I was writing my response, I thought geez! Going a bit out there Goldy, and a little off topic too! You are correct however, to the layman and most pilots they are the same thing. But a JetRanger and a LongRanger are vastly different ships...... Sorta the same thing with Ericsons ship.

 

Just remember, if its an Ericson, it probably has a greater capacity...and usually newer paint with a name plastered across the front!

 

Kinda funny....the original Army specs were built because the CH 46 couldnt lift a 10 ton load....now the Chinook lifts more than even the latest 64 F model (25 vs 26K pounds)

 

I'm off my soapbox, if you feel bad, you could get me some 412 SIC time!

 

Fly safe,

 

Goldy

Edited August 8, 2009 by Goldy

[adam32]

Goldy...don't forget the F model has dual landing wheels and a flat disc on the rotor head...

[crashed_05]

Kinda funny....the original Army specs were built because the CH 46 couldnt lift a 10 ton load....now the Chinook lifts more than even the latest 64 F model (25 vs 26K pounds)

 

 

 

Goldy

 

lol..its funny...the 46's cargo hook and airframe is rated for 10ton, but it doesn't have the power to lift anything near that much...unless it's completely stripped.

[Goldy]

Goldy...don't forget the F model has dual landing wheels and a flat disc on the rotor head...

 

Yeah, and the blade has a wider chord......but I figured I had said enough already !!!

 

Goldy

[Justin DBC]

Yepp, its got the side mounted pump that fills the bucket right?

 

 

It's actually internally mounted. I haven't actually used one yet and I'm not very familiar with it so I could be wrong, but I believe it's a mod you can do to an existing bucket.

 

J-