OK need some help...

[GmeisteR]

ok i have spent some time reading other posts and im still not clear on the question running through my mind. here goes...

 

I'm full approved through a Gov't program to pay for ALL my helo Training. I'm as new to it as someone can be, hell i still have never even been inside a helo before. so heres my question.

 

Should i attend Helicopter Academy in pensecola FL, or Bell Helicopter Training Academy in FT. Worth Tx. ???

 

 

Remember i cant split my time between both schools so which would be the best route for me ?

[arotrhd]

G-

 

Um all things sorta being equal, I'd do (recommend) Bell (or any factory school) as a first choice if all costs were covered. Especially if you intend to fly Bell products. Any chance you want to share some of that gub'mint program with your caring friends here at VR? I'll be happy to approve us all...

 

-WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

[kodoz]

So if you go to Bell school, you'll have 200 hours turbine time? The bigger question is what will you do after your CFII check ride. If you have somebody who'll hire you with 200 hrs turbine, then it's a no-brainer. Helicopter Academy hires their students for photo contracts, so even though it's in a lowly R22, you also walk away with a plan for getting to 1000 hours. But all that turbine time won't help you get a job instructing (especially when you'll most likely have to do it in an R22 or 269/300). Too bad you can't do both.

[Lindsey]

I am also curious as to which government program this is. Okay, more than curious, but you know.

[RotorWeed]

ok i have spent some time reading other posts and im still not clear on the question running through my mind. here goes...

 

I'm full approved through a Gov't program to pay for ALL my helo Training. I'm as new to it as someone can be, hell i still have never even been inside a helo before. so heres my question.

 

Should i attend Helicopter Academy in pensecola FL, or Bell Helicopter Training Academy in FT. Worth Tx. ???

 

 

Remember i cant split my time between both schools so which would be the best route for me ?

 

If you have never been in a helicopter before how do you know you want to be a pilot?

[Wally]

Why are you going to do afterwards? If you intend to work at it, you need to have that planned. I'd wonder if my options would be limited- no VERY limited, if I was to end up a new CFII with only turbine time.

[rotormandan]

I'm as new to it as someone can be, hell i still have never even been inside a helo before.

 

The 1st place to start off would be to take a demo flight at each place. See if you even like it. Hear out each one's sales pitch and have them each answer all your questions. Then you'll have something to go on.

[yzchopper]

GmeisteR,

I second what rotormandan said... do some demos and ask lots questions.

 

If the DVR program you are going thru will pay for the turbine training then do it after you get your CFII certificate. Do all your initial training in the R22 or 269/300C up to your CFII.

 

I have been told by many operators that if you have the funding to pay for 1000-1500 of turbine time then train in the turbine. Otherwise it would be more sound and cost effective to train in the R22 or 269/300C then transition to turbines. Unless you have your own turbine helicopter.

 

The insurance companies make the rules not the operators. You need at least 1000hrs PIC before an insurance company will allow you to manipulate the controls of a turbine unless you have a ton of money to pay the insurance company right up front then they may consider it. I know of an operator that had over 13,000hrs helicopter piston PIC time (Bell 47 agpilot) and then bought a Jetranger. The insurance company wanted 200hrs in type before they would insure him. But he chose the money option they offered and he had to pay $40,000.00 up front for the first year just to be covered. He now pays $20,000/yr spread out over monthly payments.

 

I would do the R22/300C route up to CFII and 1000hrs and then the transition if you still want it. Most employers will pay for the turbine transition when the time comes to leave the instructing world. Hope this helps. Good luck and Happy Holidays.

 

Steve

[GmeisteR]

As for the Gov't program i explainedd all about it in my recent post titled "Turbine Time" feel free to have a gander. as far as know i wanna be a helo pilot, its just something i have always wanted to do just never had the means as fgrowing up my parents never had the money for something like that. so i dunno which is better to be a CFII with only turbine time or go through an r44 school and start intructing my way to 1000TT. this is a one time funding deal for me so i just need to get the most for the money. thats all i really know. i contacted bell academy and they are putting together a packet and mailing it to me after the 4th. so hopefully that will answer a lot of my questions. i know that helicopter academy is a decent school and i love they offer jobs thats a HUGE plus, however as i said this is a one time funding thing so im just trying to get the best trainging for my money cause i dont have the cash myself to pay for additional trainging if i were to need it coming out of the bell academy

[notahosebag]

I agree that getting a demo flight first is a great idea. The issue of all turbine time not getting you into a CFI position is also an issue since the vast majority of first jobs are as a flight instructor. For most pilots, the best way to get that first job is as a flight instructor at the school where they took the flight lessons since getting hired somewhere else is harder because they don't know you very well. Where I work, we hardly ever hire anyone that didn't do their flight training with us.

 

If your government program that pays 100% of flight costs is the Post 9-11 GI Bill that went into effect on August 1, 2009, then you need to get the flight training as part of a program at a college (Instituition of Higher Leqrning - IHL) to get the 100% coverage.

 

I work at a flight school (Guidance Helicopters) that has a program at an IHL and will be approved for the GI benefit this February. There are a few other schools that have this same deal. Obviously, I think my school is the best, but that aside, look for a school that is big enough to need to hire you when you get done. I also suggest that you pick a school that trains in Robinson R22s since there are 3 times more schools that use Robinsons vs. Schewitzers. That'll improve your chances of getting hired somewhere else if you don't get on where you trained.

 

Since this new GI Bill can't be done unless the flight school is 141 FAA aproved and VA approved and the college's program is also VA approved, be sure all of that is in place before you choose a school. Many flight schools are 141 and VA approved and can still do the old GI Bill, but that only reimburses 60% of costs AFTER the private and doesn't pay cost of living ($ 1,300 a month here in Arizona) and books and such.

 

Good Luck finding the school that works for you! Thanks, JJ

[Mikemv]

Gmeister, go take a FAA class 2 medical exam and make sure you are fit to fly before proceeding! MikeMV

[GmeisteR]

oh im fit to fly no worries there, im 5'9 155lbs good health good shape.

[Mikemv]

Gmeister, you may be healthy but you are not medically cleared to fly until you pass a flight physical. This is always the first step to becoming a commercial pilot. GO do it! Get a student pilot certificate with it.

 

People do get surprised with color blindness and other items that they never realize in day to day life. Do not spend any money or make plans until you have a Class II Med and Student pilot certificate. Wishing you the best, MikeMV

[GmeisteR]

How much will that cost? cuz im a poor college student at the moment lol : /

[ScottL]

How much will that cost? cuz im a poor college student at the moment lol : /

I've usually seen medicals for ~$100...

[GmeisteR]

Any ideas on where i can get one of these?? Airports, hospitals.. ?? i have no clue lol

[IFLY]

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/amelocator/

 

Jerry

[Pohi]

If the government was offering to pay, at a minimum, of $270,000.00 (per the 2009 price guide from https://www.belltrainingacademy.com/trainin...lotPricing.pdf) for me to get 150 hours in a 206B and then I had to get a loan for 50 hours in R22/R44 training to get to 200 total and meet the SFAR, that is the route I would take.

 

Call me a greedy whore, but I wouldn't really complain about getting factory training and certificates in a new 206. When I got done, I would be like thousands of other new CFI's with minimum hours and looking for work. Except I would have 150 turbine, 25 R22, and 25 R44 time.

 

If a person is worried about limited opportunities, an uphill struggle, or wants a guaranteed future, then a CFI job is not the right job anyway.

 

Just my two cents.

[yzchopper]

The government program he is refering to is State Government. I did the same thing here in Washington State and it was thru the DSHS office, that is

Department of Social and Health Services. They have this program called DVR that is Disability Vocational Rehabilitation. The program works to help those with disabilities get retrained into a career field that the person can do. This is not a GI Bill. All you need to do is find a school and then have DVR send them the paper work to fill out. The school does not need to be part 141. Hope this clears up any confusion.

Steve

[heligirl03]

Lots of thoughts on this one so it will probably be my longest post to date

 

I am interested in the DVR program as a CFII teaching primary every day (meaning, keeping myself alive on an hourly basis). My immediate question is, what disability might qualify someone for DVR but not prohibit aviation medical clearance?

 

So #1, get a first class medical just to make sure you can. It's already out there, in 5yrs it could be a basic employer/insurance requirement for any professional pilot position.

 

Aside from that, posters have only alluded to what is the biggest hurdle to flying professionally, but being new to this you might not have seen that point through the rest of the good advice. So I'd like to clarify:

 

Once the money problem is resolved, THE BIGGEST HURDLE TO FLYING HELICOPTERS PROFESSIONALLY IS GETTING TO 1000HRS (or more like 1500 these days). It's an insurance thing for employers. Neither training nor turbine time are the major roadblocks. Are there more unemployed 200hr CFIs right now or unemployed 1500hr pilots with no turbine time? CFIs, without a doubt. The 1000-1500hr CFIs who are hanging around still teaching, they will get a turbine job when the economy swings back whether it's 2011 or 2015. The unemployed 200hrs CFIs with no job who are still working at their pre-aviation jobs to pay the bills, a significant percentage of them are likely to never get back into aviation professionally.

 

If you can get to 1000/1500hrs you will eventually get a job; you have been around long enough that your network is big enough, you've had enough time to build a good reputation, and you have the total time. At 200hrs with training in an aircraft that nearly no one with fewer than 1000hrs flies and few contacts, you are a complete unknown in a very precarious professional position. So you can start a helicopter without a key. But 99% of the jobs available to you require a key and the knowledge to use it.

 

If cost is not an issue, I would highly recommend going the "normal" route in an R22 so you will have a prayer of a teaching CFI job and therefore getting that 1000/1500hrs. Get your instrument rating in an R44 so you are that much more attractive to employers as a CFII applicant. Then LATER, tack on a factory transition when you have around 1000 hrs and are about to apply for turbine jobs, so it won't be ancient history on your resume. Will DVR continue to pay for educational expense even after you are "employed" as a CFI? We all know it doesn't exactly pay the bills so maybe they would consider it on an internship level and be willing to dole out a bit more (say $12-15k or so for a factory transition) to increase your chances for a "real" job?

 

Someone said to get the turbine time for basic training and then get 25 in an R22 and 25 in an R44 so you'd be able to get a CFI job in one. I don't know any school that will hire someone to teach in either with only the minimum SFAR time. Are we agreed that the R22 is probably the most unforgiving certificated helicopter? That would be why. Basic training at the Bell Factory without a guaranteed job to return to would be qualifying you (in an R22 employer's eyes) to teach in a 206; not many of those out there in the training environment and I am guessing they don't hire 200hr CFIs at the factory.

 

Train at a school you can likely teach at. You are already a step ahead with no loans! Don't try to short-circuit the career path any further unless you are related to someone who owns a helicopter and will give you 1000 free flight hours. Even then, you would have 800hrs of self-taught, GA, straight and level flight time...not the most valuable thing employers look for on a resume.

 

That's my .02cents as a working CFII in the middle of the system, and as someone who takes phone calls from CFIIs looking for work nearly every day. Don't knowingly MINIMIZE your qualifications for the job you are most eligible for! And don't be talked into thinking turbine time will make up for total time at the 200hr level. You'll get the turbine time down the road free anyway. It's the 1000/1500hrs you have to plan for NOW.

 

Merry Christmas and Fly safe!

HG03

[Lindsey]

words

 

[heligirl03]

 

?

 

Also, just read back a thread or two and found scoliosis as one answer to my previous question. I can see that. Go get your 1st class medical before proceeding a step further as it will at least require a special issuance and that doesn't happen overnight.

 

YZchopper, are you flying in Basin City? Did you go to Silverhawk? Are you willing to share your DVR qualification? I'd like to be more aware of the options out there for students. Would colorblindness qualify? That would cover around 8% of all men!

[yzchopper]

Heligirl03,

Nicely put and you hit all of the points that were needed to make a sound decision. Washington State's DVR program would not allow me to further my training after the CFI. If I could get a job with just the CFI that was all they would pay for. Was the instrument ticket a real need to get a job? Well no, not at the time I got in but it is now. So they would not go any further with my training. The most they had ever paid out was $25,000.00 and it was for fixed-wing. Mine was close to $70,000.00 and was the very first for helicopters and probably the last according to my counselor. Most training they pay for is less than $4,000.00 but up to $10,000.00

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

Steve

[yzchopper]

Heligirl03,

Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes. I was turned down to get into the military due to my Red/Green color blindness. But the military will not release that information to anyone for any reason as I found out. All information given to the military is confidential and they will not release to anyone. Here is my story: I used to work on motorcycles and turn wrenches all day 6 days a week as a small engine mechanic. Well I got out of that job due to some problems with severe cramping in my hands and my joints in the fingers always hurting from griping the wrenches. I have a genetic bone disease that the doctors have yet to put a name on it. It makes your fingers have a slight curve to them. It is common for the pinky finger tip have a small curve but mine is all the fingers. Well anyway, I decided to try to go into the military to become a pilot. I did all their tests and passed everything but two items. The hearing and the color charts. I lost the low tones of my hearing when I was a year and a half old due to lots of ear infections which lead me to get Spinal Menegitis. The doctors told me I would never be over 5 feet tall or over 100lbs. I'm 69 inches tall and weigh 172lbs. I was was told repeatly by many that I would never be able to fly due to my ears. Boy did I prove everyone wrong. Anyway, I got a wavier for the hearing but no such luck with the color stuff. My color blindness is more of shades than anything. I had to do the color signal gun test at Spokane Int'L and passed for night but not day. So on my second class medical I had the restriction Not Valid For Flight Under Signal Gun Control During Daylight Hours. So I could fly into controlled airports at night under the signal gun control but not during the day. Well as of 2006 that restriction was lifted. I got some letter from the FAA stating I was nolonger restricted. If you have anymore questions ask away. I will do the best that I can to answer them.

 

Steve

[teddy]

I too would like more information about the original question. oh and try to get a auto rotation demo on your first flight