Death of the student loan market has a date June 30 2010

[NonSequitur]

Someone pointed out to me we have a saving grace come Nov elections. We can vote every single person who voted for this bill out of office.

 

Don't bother limiting yourself to just those that voted for it. Almost every single Senator and every single Congressman in office are responsible for the morass that is our current political situation. It is not a matter of affiliation with a specific party but of being affiliated with party politics.

[adam32]

It passed...let the lawsuits begin!!

[permison]

Lawsuits are the least of our problems.

[adam32]

Lawsuits are the least of our problems.

 

Eh...hopefully they will tie it up long enough that nothing will ever get started...37 states are already planning on suing the feds over it...

[permison]

This will wind up fast tracking to the supreme court. 37 states have already begun asserting states rights as defined in the United States Constitution.

 

The leadership of our country tonight went against the very spirit of our country. The founders of this country were rebelling from a leadership that enforced unfair taxes and rules upon its populace. They founded this country so that they could be free from the same tyrannical leadership we have in office today that sits at the head of our government and makes decisions against the will of the people and sleeps at night because they truly believe they "know better". That is the very image of those who our founders fought and gave their lives so that future generations could be free from arrogant dictators.

 

 

When members of Congress and the President are elected they take an oath of office and state;

 

For the President "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

 

For members of Congress "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

 

The leaders of our country have publicly spoken out against the very document for which defines what this nation is based upon. If ever there was a moment in history where I fear for our future this is it. If what our "Elected" officials did tonight isn't the definition of treason I don't know what is. Tonight the Federal government proudly violated the 10th amendment and enforced an unlawful tax upon the people of the United States. They might as well have broken the Constitution out of its glass enclosure and pissed all over it.

 

Tonight both the President and Congress took actions against the very document and our highest law they took an oath to defend. You can't tell me when 37 states take legal action against a bill being passed by Congress (even before it is passed) that it is the will of the people. This is how the first civil war started and I hope by God it does not lead to a second.

[Inferno]

Wooo. More doom and gloom predictions. Stop stressing yourself out. No matter what you do, it won't matter.

[fry]

Tonight the Federal government proudly violated the 10th amendment and enforced an unlawful tax upon the people of the United States. They might as well have broken the Constitution out of its glass enclosure and pissed all over it.

 

Ah, so this is really not about the "death of th student loan market" and its impact on the flight training industry, huh?

 

The same sort of claims about impending insurrection were made when old age income legislation (Social Security) was passed in the 30s and again when senior medical benefits (Medicare) was enacted in the 60s. Can you imagine not having those programs today? Thirty years from now the medical program just passed will seem just as normal as its two predecessors do now.

 

As for how we are going to pay for a trillion dollars (over ten years) of new government spending...who knows. But the federal government has been in hock to this extent before...to pay for WWII...and we got through it. To put things in perspective, the US is a $14 trillion economy...the next closest is only $6 trillion...and the entire European Union...16 countries...is only equal to us. Our military spending represents almost half of the world's total military spending...5.8 times more than China, 10.2 times more than Russia, and 98.6 times more than Iran and almost 124 times the spending of the five “rogue” states (Cuba, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria).

 

Contrary to what the tea party folks say, this legislation does not represent the end of the American way of life. We will adapt and move forward because (cue the music..."glory, glory hallelujah...") that is the American way.

[klas]

...Contrary to what the tea party folks say, this legislation does not represent the end of the American way of life. We will adapt and move forward because (cue the music..."glory, glory hallelujah...") that is the American way.

 

Sure it does. The American way of life is one of individuality & "life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness". This bill supplants individuality with government control. The exact opposite of American individuality. The necessary component of the 'pursuit of happiness' is choice. This bill takes choice away by having an individual mandate. And given the quality of government run health care (and remember, the supporters of this bill say this is the first step towards direct single payer system), one can argue that the 'life' aspect of 'life liberty & the pursuit of happiness' will be in jeopardy.

[klas]

...The same sort of claims about impending insurrection were made when old age income legislation (Social Security) was passed in the 30s and again when senior medical benefits (Medicare) was enacted in the 60s. Can you imagine not having those programs today? Thirty years from now the medical program just passed will seem just as normal as its two predecessors do now....

 

If we didn't have those programs, perhaps people would be better prepared for retirement. With them, people think they will be covered so they don't have to worry about preparing for retirement themselves. Rather than having SS be a supplement, now people think they have this 'right' that can't be touched/reformed to save itself because they will lose some money each month. Both programs are going bankrupt & may destroy this county financially in the end, so yeah, I COULD imagine this country without BOTH of them. In fact, we'd be better of without their cost & the 'entitlement' mindset.

[adam32]

The same sort of claims about impending insurrection were made when old age income legislation (Social Security) was passed in the 30s and again when senior medical benefits (Medicare) was enacted in the 60s. Can you imagine not having those programs today? Thirty years from now the medical program just passed will seem just as normal as its two predecessors do now.

 

Well we wouldn't have $100+ TRILLION in unfunded liabilities without them!! That would be a good thing! I won't see any money from either one of them in my lifetime, yet I still have to pay into them...

[fry]

Sure it does. The American way of life is one of individuality & "life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness". This bill supplants individuality with government control. The exact opposite of American individuality. The necessary component of the 'pursuit of happiness' is choice. This bill takes choice away by having an individual mandate. And given the quality of government run health care (and remember, the supporters of this bill say this is the first step towards direct single payer system), one can argue that the 'life' aspect of 'life liberty & the pursuit of happiness' will be in jeopardy.

 

I hear ya ("I feel your pain"?) regarding "individuality"...but really, this legislation is not that bad. Here's a pretty good summary of what passed the Senate plus the changes the House made...the combination will be the final bill:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/03...nciliation.html

 

The Repubs and moderate Dems fought a good fight to shoot down the most onerous parts of the original House bill...the "public option" and the "panel of government experts" who would decide the price of individual medical treatments. This bill is not a "government run health care" system...here's what a piece in the Wall Street Journal (no friend of liberals) said:

 

Proponents of the health legislation are quick to point out that it doesn't amount to a government takeover of health care, and they are right. The legislation builds on, rather than replaces, the employer-based health-insurance system that has prevailed in this country for decades. It funnels patients getting government subsidies into private insurance policies and pools, not a government-run health plan, and is at best a small step toward the nationalized health-care system some liberals want.

 

Those wanting a single-payer plan and a European-style nanny state will be back...but for now, they put on a full court press with all the advantages on their side and this was the best they could get. The Republic is safe for now.

[permison]

Ah, so this is really not about the "death of th student loan market" and its impact on the flight training industry, huh?

 

The same sort of claims about impending insurrection were made when old age income legislation (Social Security) was passed in the 30s and again when senior medical benefits (Medicare) was enacted in the 60s. Can you imagine not having those programs today? Thirty years from now the medical program just passed will seem just as normal as its two predecessors do now.

 

As for how we are going to pay for a trillion dollars (over ten years) of new government spending...who knows. But the federal government has been in hock to this extent before...to pay for WWII...and we got through it. To put things in perspective, the US is a $14 trillion economy...the next closest is only $6 trillion...and the entire European Union...16 countries...is only equal to us. Our military spending represents almost half of the world's total military spending...5.8 times more than China, 10.2 times more than Russia, and 98.6 times more than Iran and almost 124 times the spending of the five “rogue” states (Cuba, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria).

 

Contrary to what the tea party folks say, this legislation does not represent the end of the American way of life. We will adapt and move forward because (cue the music..."glory, glory hallelujah...") that is the American way.

 

Fry,

Are you really using Social Security and Medicaid as successes to support your argument? Yes I can imagine not having those programs now because I don't have them and I won't have them come time for me to be eligible for them. These two programs are broke and the largest example of a pyramid scheme ever.

 

The progressive method is small bites. Take a little bit here and a little bit there so that you don't notice the loss all at once. Yes there are some good things in this bill but overwhelmingly there are bad things. By passing this bill they have in my opinion destroyed two industries overnight (flight training and student loans), this will lead to 1000s of people being thrown into unemployment on top of an already overwhelmed unemployment system. That's just to start.

 

You mention in your post about how we faced the same dire straits during and after WW2. I think the country had much more going for it then as opposed to now. We don't make much here in the US anymore. What saved us in the 40s and 50s was our ability to provide to the rest of the world. We helped rebuild Japan, Germany, England, Italy, France, etc....by providing cars, steel, food, etc. Do we have that option now? Most of that manufacturing has gone overseas to other countries and our economy has become consumers. So how do we manufacture our way out of debt? We don't have countries overseas whose manufacturing base has been decimated and is looking to us to help rebuild. That was our saving grace after WW2 and brought us out of the depression. What do we have like that now?

 

Fry I have a lot of respect for you and you clearly have a wealth of knowledge but I can't understand how you cannot fear this bill for the very reason you state in your post. "As for how we are going to pay for a trillion dollars (over ten years) of new government spending...who knows." We don't have the money for this and this bill kills so many jobs that it makes a already bad situation worse.

 

Further, would you invest in something without knowing what you are investing in? That is what happened last night. These guys were running around saying I don't have time to read the bill. I read it. I even posted things I thought were important to our discussion here. Our "fiscally intelligent" leadership passed a bill without knowing what isn't in it. AND WERE PROUD OF IT!!!! If that isn't the definition of insanity I don't know what is.

 

You make the comment "this legislation does not represent the end of the American way of life." No your right this single step does not represent the end of the American way of life but it is a significant step in that direction.

[klas]

...Those wanting a single-payer plan and a European-style nanny state will be back...but for now, they put on a full court press with all the advantages on their side and this was the best they could get. The Republic is safe for now.

 

Not really; because like you said, those wanting single payer will be back. They needed that 1st stepping stone to it & now they got it. Once that small step is taken, there is no going back, unfortunately. It HAD to be stopped here & now. The Republic is very much unsafe because of the final goal - Obama has said as much, that this is just the 1st step. Now, if you ('you' in the generic sense) are all for the socialized single payer model & believe that health care is a right, then you are happy; if you are not & believe health care is not a right, then you are unhappy. One model will bankrupt the country & lower the quality of health care, the other won't.

Edited March 22, 2010 by klas

[Eggbeater]

I went to an online political argument and a helicopter topic broke out...

[jumpngonuts]

It's a shame that they passed it last night and I'm not looking forward to what the outcome is going to be. What happened last night is pretty damn spooky. It's about time we get all the lying crooked senators and congressmen/women out of there and get some people in that would actually do some good. Ok I'm done complaining for a few... But I do wish I could borrow that printer and print off a few million every once and a while.

[TimW68]

I just spoke with the financial aid dept. at UVU and to make a long story short the only difference is there will be no banks or credit unions involved. The Direct Loans (Stafford) seem to mirror the same process but the loan is directly with the Government. They were not sure with regard to the Pell grant's but seemed to think if anything there may actually be an increased amount. So I do not see this hurting flight schools unless this effects the private lending side, but that's close to non-existent anyways.

[fry]

Here's a piece from the Wall Street Journal about the changes to the student loan program:

 

New Help for Some College Borrowers

 

Buried in the health-care and education bill that Congress passed Thursday is modest help for parents borrowing to pay college costs. But the legislation doesn't address current and former students who are wrestling with education debt.

 

Under financial-aid provisions in the bill, all students and parents beginning next fall will borrow directly from the federal government, ending a program in which the government subsidized private lenders to provide federal loans. Parents pay an annual interest rate of 7.9% under the direct program, compared with 8.5% under the old program.

 

Student borrowing rates for federal loans aren't affected: They will be 4.5% this coming school year for students with financial need and 6.8% for everybody else.

 

A second provision in the bill sweetens a program that caps student-debt payments based on income and family size—but only for students who begin school in 2014 or later. The current income-based repayment program, begun in July, limits payments to 15% of a borrower's discretionary income and forgives any debt that isn't paid off in 25 years. The future changes limit payments to 10% of discretionary income and forgive debt after 20 years.

 

The bill also provides more funding for Pell Grants, which are available mostly to students from families making $50,000 a year or less.

 

The changes come as tuition, fees and room and board continue to grow faster than inflation, reaching eye-popping levels at top schools amid state budget crises and declines in endowments. The University of California system, for example, has raised tuition and fees to more than $11,000 next year, from about $8,700 last fall. Brown, Dartmouth, Duke, Harvard and Stanford universities, among many others, say that their tuition, room, board and fees will top $50,000 for the first time in 2010-11.

 

So despite the new benefits for borrowers, paying for college remains a monumental task. Here are some ways to make it less painful:

 

• Don't assume a school's sticker price is real. Many public and private schools have raised their financial aid along with tuition, and some have committed to packages that limit or eliminate student loans. Roughly 50% of students at top schools receive financial aid, and even families with incomes of $200,000 or more may qualify.

 

At Brown, for instance, more than 40% of the students receive some aid, with the average annual package around $31,000. Provost David Kertzer says the school's income from tuition, after subtracting financial aid, was essentially flat in 2009 compared with 2006.

 

Experts say that some students may actually pay less at a private school than a public one. But competition for aid is tough: More than 18.8 million Free Application for Federal Student Aid forms have been filed so far this school year, up 20% over a year ago.

 

• Parent borrowers need a better credit record than students. Parents can take out federal PLUS loans at a 7.9% interest rate. But while FICO scores aren't a factor, parent borrowers can't have any missed payments in the previous 90 days or had a bankruptcy or foreclosure in the past five years. If parents don't qualify, students can borrow more in federal Stafford loans.

 

• Students should limit their total education debt to about what they expect to earn their first year out of school, says Mark Kantrowitz, publisher of finaid.org. If you need to borrow much more than $40,000, you probably ought to consider whether that school is the right fit.

 

• If the government loan programs aren't enough, financial-aid experts say parents should compare the rates for a home-equity loan before taking out a private education loan, which can carry a double-digit interest rate. While a home-equity loan can put a borrower's house at risk, rates on such loans are often lower—and the interest may be tax-deductible.

[Vegas]

Hey guys,

Just an update, there is money out there if you want it. There is the UVU thing if you want or need that college degree. Or there is Sallie Mae. Yes they are still lending! There are only maybe one or two schools in the country that they are working with. Due to the schools reputation and longevity. You must have immaculate credit with a stellar co-signer! I recently got full financing through Sallie Mae. So it's there if you want this dream. As you all know it's a pain in the butt right now to find money for this. Just take it where you can. Good luck!

[CrashC]

Hey guys,

Just an update, there is money out there if you want it. There is the UVU thing if you want or need that college degree. Or there is Sallie Mae. Yes they are still lending! There are only maybe one or two schools in the country that they are working with. Due to the schools reputation and longevity. You must have immaculate credit with a stellar co-signer! I recently got full financing through Sallie Mae. So it's there if you want this dream. As you all know it's a pain in the butt right now to find money for this. Just take it where you can. Good luck!

 

PM sent, but I thought I'd ask a question here for those that follow.

 

You mentioned approval from SLM requires immaculate credit and a stellar co-signer. Is this a new development? I could be mistaken, but I vaguely remember reading that the co-signer's credit was the most important as long as the borrower had no bankruptcy or foreclosure on their record. Any others with recent experience with SLM?

 

As an aside, I attempted to get that info from SLM but the reps were relatively useless. They required me to go ahead and apply for a loan, but I haven't selected a school to apply for a loan to. Cart before the horse and all that...

Edited May 6, 2010 by CrashC

[Vegas]

Hey CrashC,

 

SLM requirements have really changed. They want the co-signer's credit just as good if not better then borrower. From what I understand in the past it really didn't matter and they were practically giving student loans away. You have to go in there with good credit bottom line!

 

As far as talking with customer service, they suck! They really have no idea what's going on. They just read from a computer. Just replied to PM.