R22 vs. High Altitude Experience / EMS Prep

[Trans Lift]

Bulk flight time gets you the interview. This and that will get you a flight check. Your ATTITUDE will decide if you get the job….. Or not…….

 

nicely said!

[heligirl03]

nicely said!

 

Very well put, Spike, that is exactly what I have seen.

 

Get the hours.

Do a few things.

Be the person you'd want to work with every day.

[RkyMtnHI]

Very well put, Spike, that is exactly what I have seen.

 

Get the hours.

Do a few things.

Be the person you'd want to work with every day.

 

 

I too was going to say the same thing about Spike's post; good stuff!

 

Also:

 

There is a big difference between doing a "mountain course" and doing your training at an airport at an altitude above 5000'. People come to us with a few hours departing from an airport at sea level or close to it, and then flying up to the foothills (6000' to 8000') and call it high altitude or mountain training. It's not quite the same thing and operators that are looking for high altitude or mountain time expect you to know the difference.. that is to say that it won't help you if you SAY you have the time and then they see on your resume that it's only a few hours and/or not from an airport at altitude (it's almost better to not list it).

 

It's much smarter to get time where ever you are than to spend $$ doing a "mountain course" that isn't.

 

To answer an earlier question. We NEVER take our 300s into or past the foothills.. period.

 

Lastly and the reason i am posting; To quote Heligirl;

 

"Be the person you'd want to work with every day."

 

This is the best advice of the whole topic... seriously. I took a friend of mine to meet a recruiter (CP) last year.. after the interview flight i asked the CP (a very good friend of mine) how my buddy did on the controls.. his answer caught me off guard.. he said; "he can fly fine, most pilots with 1500 hours can fly, it's not about that, that is the easy part.. I need pilots that are safe, have good situational awareness, are polite, friendly, get along with people, make a good first impression, aren't moody.... show up to work on time, everytime.. no dp, the flying is the easy part!"

 

it makes so much sense to me now that i am in a similar position..

 

the flying is the easy part.... there are lots of pilots out there that can fly and some are even amazing "sticks".. but finding someone that is the total package is quite a different story...

 

oh yeah, yes, he got the job!! :-)

 

jmho,

 

dp

[CrashC]

I too was going to say the same thing about Spike's post; good stuff!

 

Also:

 

There is a big difference between doing a "mountain course" and doing your training at an airport at an altitude above 5000'. People come to us with a few hours departing from an airport at sea level or close to it, and then flying up to the foothills (6000' to 8000') and call it high altitude or mountain training. It's not quite the same thing and operators that are looking for high altitude or mountain time expect you to know the difference.. that is to say that it won't help you if you SAY you have the time and then they see on your resume that it's only a few hours and/or not from an airport at altitude (it's almost better to not list it).

 

It's much smarter to get time where ever you are than to spend $$ doing a "mountain course" that isn't.

 

To answer an earlier question. We NEVER take our 300s into or past the foothills.. period.

 

Lastly and the reason i am posting; To quote Heligirl;

 

"Be the person you'd want to work with every day."

 

This is the best advice of the whole topic... seriously. I took a friend of mine to meet a recruiter (CP) last year.. after the interview flight i asked the CP (a very good friend of mine) how my buddy did on the controls.. his answer caught me off guard.. he said; "he can fly fine, most pilots with 1500 hours can fly, it's not about that, that is the easy part.. I need pilots that are safe, have good situational awareness, are polite, friendly, get along with people, make a good first impression, aren't moody.... show up to work on time, everytime.. no dp, the flying is the easy part!"

 

it makes so much sense to me now that i am in a similar position..

 

the flying is the easy part.... there are lots of pilots out there that can fly and some are even amazing "sticks".. but finding someone that is the total package is quite a different story...

 

oh yeah, yes, he got the job!! :-)

 

jmho,

 

dp

 

Awesome info. Thanks for taking time out to post, DP! It's appreciated.

Edited April 26, 2010 by CrashC

[r22butters]

Bulk flight time gets you the interview. This and that will get you a flight check. Your ATTITUDE will decide if you get the job….. Or not…….

 

Interesting:huh:

 

I've only had one interview. I barely had the minimum hours, and not a whole lot of 'this and that', but the one thing I do remember, is how much he complimented me on my ATTITUDE. I still didn't get the job though.

[Trans Lift]

Interesting:huh:

 

I've only had one interview. I barely had the minimum hours, and not a whole lot of 'this and that', but the one thing I do remember, is how much he complimented me on my ATTITUDE. I still didn't get the job though.

 

You usually need all three factors unfortunately. Attitude alone doesn't always do it. It does help out but the insurance usually sets the minimums. Maybe you can go back there when you get more hours if you made a good impression though! Hopefully something works out for you.

 

I barely had the minimums for my current job but my "this and that" and my attitude secured it for me!

Edited April 27, 2010 by Trans Lift

[r22butters]

You usually need all three factors unfortunately. Attitude alone doesn't always do it. It does help out but the insurance usually sets the minimums. Maybe you can go back there when you get more hours if you made a good impression though! Hopefully something works out for you.

 

I barely had the minimums for my current job but my "this and that" and my attitude secured it for me!

 

I reiterate my point. Without BULK FLIGHT TIME, everything else, doesn't mean s@*t!

[JDHelicopterPilot]

Many of today's pilots are going into the field without having worked in another industry much. If they had done so they would have had much better interview skills and a much better idea of what prospective employers really look for.

 

Pilot applicants all to often think once they have the "hours" or "meet the requirements" that will be all they need for the job. Then they show up at the interview and are left wondering why they didn't get the job.

 

Spike was spot on with what he said, along with DP's story which sums it all up.

 

I was lucky to have been in the hospitality industry for many years and interviewed for jobs and then later on interviewed prospective applicants. I can tell you a huge part of the interview is the employer identifiying if that applicant has a good attitude, reliable and will get a long with others.

 

Remember if you apply as a tour pilot your not just flying the helicopter. You are interacting with the passengers as well. If you are applying for and EMS job, be ready for lots of down time and some interesting dynamics with other crew members.

 

Don't get caught up in the High D.A. argument. If you want to truly do EMS you'll need to focus on night unaided, building total time and PIC time. If you can do off airport landings more often that will also be good. Go to the HeliExpo, take some classes like Wire Avoidance. You can add that to your resume. One thing I wish I had done was to work in the Gulf to get some Actual IFR time. That would have opened a few more doors for me.

 

JD

[CrashC]

Many of today's pilots are going into the field without having worked in another industry much. If they had done so they would have had much better interview skills and a much better idea of what prospective employers really look for.

 

Pilot applicants all to often think once they have the "hours" or "meet the requirements" that will be all they need for the job. Then they show up at the interview and are left wondering why they didn't get the job.

 

Spike was spot on with what he said, along with DP's story which sums it all up.

 

I was lucky to have been in the hospitality industry for many years and interviewed for jobs and then later on interviewed prospective applicants. I can tell you a huge part of the interview is the employer identifiying if that applicant has a good attitude, reliable and will get a long with others.

 

Remember if you apply as a tour pilot your not just flying the helicopter. You are interacting with the passengers as well. If you are applying for and EMS job, be ready for lots of down time and some interesting dynamics with other crew members.

 

Don't get caught up in the High D.A. argument. If you want to truly do EMS you'll need to focus on night unaided, building total time and PIC time. If you can do off airport landings more often that will also be good. Go to the HeliExpo, take some classes like Wire Avoidance. You can add that to your resume. One thing I wish I had done was to work in the Gulf to get some Actual IFR time. That would have opened a few more doors for me.

 

JD

 

Good stuff. Thanks, JD!

 

Luckily, I've had the opportunity through my current career (design/marketing/freelance) to gain significant experience with client care/interaction, instruction, networking and operating a small business...all skills that I plan on putting to good use at various points in my new career.

 

Looks like I just missed HeliExpo. Any other major trade shows you would suggest? Some seem to dread networking but getting out and shaking some hands in the helicopter industry is something I'm definitely looking forward to.

 

So far, the basic options I've found are:

 

• R22 training based at low altitude near mountains with weather experience (Pacific NW)

 

• R22 training based at low altitude near mountains with relatively little weather experience (SoCal)

 

• R22 training based at high altitude with little weather experience (Northern AZ)

 

• 300 training based at high altitude with weather experience but significantly fewer CFI job options (Rockies)

 

Northern Utah is next on my list to look at. Some of the Salt Lake area schools appear to fly R22s and 44s based above 4,000 with 4 season weather. Could be a good mix. I'm just glad that I'm lucky enough to be able to move wherever offers the most potential for a CFI position and the best experience.

Edited April 30, 2010 by CrashC

[CrashC]

Random questions.

 

Is there a reason there are few, if any, schools in New Mexico? It appears to offer the same high altitude and weather as Arizona.

 

Also, are there any other schools based at high altitude that fly R22s other than those in Prescott, AZ? Is it the desert climate that allows them to fly R22s?

Edited May 2, 2010 by CrashC

[helipilotm]

There are alot of good posts on this topic. The only thing I can add is just like JD said. Build your night time, let me repeat build your night time. Think for a minute most companies want somebody with 100 hours of unaided night. If I get flown I dont want somebody who just barely meets the minimums. Get as much as you can. I have a few friends who are flying ems and they all said they wish they had more nighttime. The one guy in particular had around 300 and still wants more. Granted more companies are going to NVG's on a daily basis but keep in mind you still have to have the basics of unaided for the NVG's to really help you. Good luck fly safe!

[HeliUtah]

Random questions.

 

Is there a reason there are few, if any, schools in New Mexico? It appears to offer the same high altitude and weather as Arizona.

 

Also, are there any other schools based at high altitude that fly R22s other than those in Prescott, AZ? Is it the desert climate that allows them to fly R22s?

 

Just about all of the schools in northern UT fly R22s and are at close to the same altitude as Prescott.

[r22butters]

There are alot of good posts on this topic. The only thing I can add is just like JD said. Build your night time, let me repeat build your night time. Think for a minute most companies want somebody with 100 hours of unaided night. If I get flown I dont want somebody who just barely meets the minimums. Get as much as you can. I have a few friends who are flying ems and they all said they wish they had more nighttime. The one guy in particular had around 300 and still wants more. Granted more companies are going to NVG's on a daily basis but keep in mind you still have to have the basics of unaided for the NVG's to really help you. Good luck fly safe!

 

I would be happy to trade any of you some of my 250 night hours for a job.

[jeffh0214]

When it comes to acquiring the night hours for flying EMS, do operators ever consider fixed-wing night time, or do they only count the helicopter night hours? Thanks...

[Eggbeater]

When it comes to acquiring the night hours for flying EMS, do operators ever consider fixed-wing night time, or do they only count the helicopter night hours? Thanks...

 

While fixed wing night hours help with the ATP, most EMS companies require all night hours (usually a min of 100) in helicopters.

[JDHelicopterPilot]

EMS operators will want that time in Category/Class. So it'll have to be helicopter time.

 

It's a big difference flying at night in a helicopter vs airplane. Now add in an off airport landing at night, overcast in the desert mountains with powerlines and you'll understand.

 

When it comes to IFR/IMC time I was told by one operator that some but only some airplane time would be considered. In this respect there are a lot more simularities.

[CrashC]

Another random question - I'll be in the Panama City area the week of May 16th on vacation and it appears that the beaches won't be of much use by then. Anything down in that area of the GoM for a newbie to visit and poke around in? I'd love to meet up with someone in the business and buy them lunch to pick their brain a bit.

[67november]

Another random question - I'll be in the Panama City area the week of May 16th on vacation and it appears that the beaches won't be of much use by then. Anything down in that area of the GoM for a newbie to visit and poke around in? I'd love to meet up with someone in the business and buy them lunch to pick their brain a bit.

 

Take a short drive straight north to Fort Rucker and at least see the muesum and check out the helo stuff in the area.

[rjl2001]

Looks like someone beat me to it, but you will be a couple hours south of Fort Rucker. It's been a few years, but I do remember them having a pretty cool little museum up there. museum website. Also, not as helicopter specific but a really great free museum is at Pensacola Naval Air Station.NAS Museum Pensacola is a couple hours to the west of P.C. and is considered the cradle of naval aviation. Since I'm on the subject I'll also mention the Air Force Armament museum in my hometown, just outside of Eglin Air Force Base. Armament museum.

 

As far as actual helicopter operators I don't think there is too much in that area. These guys do tours over the beach and both the guys that run it are pretty friendly to talk with: panhandle heli. A couple other local facilities that deal more with MRO work: coastal helicopters, heli tech

[CrashC]

Awesome. Thank you!