I have finally decided..

[Lindsey]

Nope not even just two students. You always have an IP in the aircraft now, you just get a different IP for your solo qualification flight. Then you are "solo qualified" but you never actually solo.

 

Roger that. Thanks.

[SBuzzkill]

They used to do it where two students would go out and fly around. Apparently people would go out and do stuff they weren't supposed to or something so they nixed that.

 

On the plus side for primary however, we DO get to go out on a cross country around Alabama and Georgia. They recently made some significant changes to the curriculum which should make it more interesting.

Edited May 12, 2010 by SBuzzkill

[heloidaho]

What would be the best route to base most of my training (if possible) off of for EMS while in the army? And that makes sense that any form of training helps to your overall ability. Diversity is always a good quality, and opens up many other doors rather than just one.

 

What is a scout as far as what we are discussing? Just a different type of rank or what? I don't know the difference.

 

Sounds to me like you still need to do some research on the flying in the Army. Read, read, read. Right now you are focused on being EMS, EMS, EMS. And you want to fly for the Army in order to meet that goal. I think it might not hurt you to focus on the first steps first. You still need to get into WOFT to begin with, and even then there is no guarantee you will wind up flying the airframe your heart is set on, but as has been mentioned before, flying any of the airframes will give you valuable experience.

 

www.kiowapilots.com is a great resource for Army helicopterss, and OH-58s in particular. Go take a look there and see if you can get a better idea about Army scouts.

[SBuzzkill]

Adding to that, even though there are more slots for Hawks than the other airframes, it doesn't always trickle down that way. My class is going to have very few UH-60 slots left for us active guys.

 

The way it works is say you have a class of 30 and the Army has 20 slots for UH-60, 8 slots for AH-64, and 2 slots for OH-58. In your class you have 15 NG guys all getting UH-60 and 1 going OH-58. They take away from the overall slots so now you have 5 slots for UH-60, 8 slots for AH-64, and 1 slot for OH-58.

 

You're 7th on your OML and the first guy takes UH-60, second guy AH-64, the third guy takes OH-58, fourth, fifth and sixth guys take UH-60. Now you're stuck with AH-64. See how that works?

 

It's completely normal to have a preferred aircraft as we all have one. But don't get your hopes up on one set track.

Edited May 12, 2010 by SBuzzkill

[eaw913]

Sounds to me like you still need to do some research on the flying in the Army. Read, read, read. Right now you are focused on being EMS, EMS, EMS. And you want to fly for the Army in order to meet that goal. I think it might not hurt you to focus on the first steps first. You still need to get into WOFT to begin with, and even then there is no guarantee you will wind up flying the airframe your heart is set on, but as has been mentioned before, flying any of the airframes will give you valuable experience.

 

www.kiowapilots.com is a great resource for Army helicopterss, and OH-58s in particular. Go take a look there and see if you can get a better idea about Army scouts.

 

I am still doing research right now. Honestly, I am more into this for the Army portion. But, on the flip side I would like to come out with the skills necessary to be EMS. I really don't care how I get there, or even mind flying other helicopters (I would actually prefer to).

 

I have been checking that forum out, and I am on there right now actually. Thanks for the information.

 

 

Adding to that, even though there are more slots for Hawks than the other airframes, it doesn't always trickle down that way. My class is going to have very few UH-60 slots left for us active guys.

 

The way it works is say you have a class of 30 and the Army has 20 slots for UH-60, 8 slots for AH-64, and 2 slots for OH-58. In your class you have 15 NG guys all getting UH-60 and 1 going OH-58. They take away from the overall slots so now you have 5 slots for UH-60, 8 slots for AH-64, and 1 slot for OH-58.

 

You're 7th on your OML and the first guy takes UH-60, second guy AH-64, the third guy takes OH-58, fourth, fifth and sixth guys take UH-60. Now you're stuck with AH-64. See how that works?

 

It's completely normal to have a preferred aircraft as we all have one. But don't get your hopes up on one set track.

 

Yeah that makes complete sense. And as said above I actually don't mind, I honestly just want to fly. I would take anything.

 

On a different note, I am curious about how Basic Training works for people accepted to WOFT. Is there a specific camp you go to, or do you just go to normal bootcamp just like any other part of the army? I'm just curious of how the process works after you get accepted.

[SBuzzkill]

You will enlist with an MOS 09W "Warrant Officer Candidate." You will go to the same Basic Training as every other enlisted soldier in the Army, and you will go in as an enlisted rank. I was an E2 (Private) during the 11 weeks I was at BCT.

 

When you graduate BCT you will go directly to Warrant Officer Candidate School (WOCS) for 6 weeks. When you get to WOCS you will get orders to E5 and your rank will be WOC (Warrant Officer Candidate) until you graduate when you will be promoted to WO1 and you will get to live on your own. Both BCT and WOCS are "lockdown" courses which means you live in a barracks and have little privelages.

 

After WOCS you will go into hold status until starting Junior Officer Professional Development (6 week course, not lockdown you go home at night).

 

After JOPD you will go straight into SERE school which is 3 weeks of lockdown again. You will not have a phone, mail, any contact with the outside world during those three weeks.

 

Upon graduating SERE you will go back on hold until your Common Core start date. Then you have Aeromed classes and Systems classes until training day 11, when you finally take your nickle ride!

Edited May 12, 2010 by SBuzzkill

[eaw913]

You will enlist with an MOS 09W "Warrant Officer Candidate." You will go to the same Basic Training as every other enlisted soldier in the Army, and you will go in as an enlisted rank. I was an E2 (Private) during the 11 weeks I was at BCT.

 

When you graduate BCT you will go directly to Warrant Officer Candidate School (WOCS) for 6 weeks. When you get to WOCS you will get orders to E5 and your rank will be WOC (Warrant Officer Candidate) until you graduate when you will be promoted to WO1 and you will get to live on your own. Both BCT and WOCS are "lockdown" courses which means you live in a barracks and have little privelages.

 

After WOCS you will go into hold status until starting Junior Officer Professional Development (6 week course, not lockdown you go home at night).

 

After JOPD you will go straight into SERE school which is 3 weeks of lockdown again. You will not have a phone, mail, any contact with the outside world during those three weeks.

 

Upon graduating SERE you will go back on hold until your Common Core start date. Then you have Aeromed classes and Systems classes until training day 11, when you finally take your nickle ride!

 

Sounds pretty intense. How is the SERE training? I know what it is, but I don't quite get how they do it.

 

That's a great view of the process, though. I did not know about a few of those. Thanks.

[CrashC]

I have not yet. I will search up the regulations PDF now. My only thing about talking to a recruiter and scheduling one is I don't want them to be all over me about enlisting. Even if I was definite, I'm not going to join for at least a while longer until I get a degree. I just don't want to be pressured constantly, considering I know exactly what I want and all they want is to get me enlisted.

 

You don't need to go through MEPS to find out. Just read, then contact a recruiter and ask them to contact MEPS. Problem is... as soon as you tell a recruiter you're planning for enlisting 4 years out after school, they'll most likely not bother with you since you have no use to them as you won't help them fill their quota for the month. I would consider leaving out that bit of information to the recruiter you speak with until it's time to tell him why he can stop calling you every day.

 

Here ya go:

 

http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r40_501.pdf

 

All 148 pages of things that will disqualify you from flying for the Army. I really don't know how they get enough applicants that meet such stringent requirements. If you've ever sneezed three times in a row, sharted yourself or had blue balls, you're probably out. And as far as waivers go, perhaps I was misinformed. I was told by a Guard WO recruiter who contacted a doctor at MEPS that it's extremely difficult if not impossible to get a waiver in the first place and any waiver on your application to WOFT immediately sets you back, especially during the board review. You should definitely verify this.

 

Take this with a grain of salt and verify everything. As you can see, I'm still a little bitter about the whole thing. My point here is to find out now before you go making decisions that will change the rest of your life (i.e. where to go to school, what to major in, etc.). The last thing you want to do is go to enlist in 4 years and find out you're disqualified before you even get started. You can get the answers you need now before you enlist. Don't sweat the recruiters. Regardless of their quotas, their job is to inform you about enlisting. Do not be afraid to politely and respectfully tell them there's no need to call or contact you as you've decided to go to college first.

Edited May 12, 2010 by CrashC

[SBuzzkill]

Sounds pretty intense. How is the SERE training? I know what it is, but I don't quite get how they do it.

 

That's a great view of the process, though. I did not know about a few of those. Thanks.

 

You will hear SERE described as "the best training I never want to do again."

 

As for that list of disqualifying things, don't look into it too much. Let the flight surgeon decide. I spent a ton of time worrying about my eyesight and delaying my application only to have it be a non-issue.

Edited May 13, 2010 by SBuzzkill

[eaw913]

Thanks for the information on medical issues. I'm not too worried about it, though. I am extremely healthy, have perfect vision, and have only gotten sick a handful of times in my entire life (minor sicknesses, and knock on wood!).

 

I will still go on and check into it more and try to schedule the class 1A physical sometime soon.

 

And to your post SBuzzkill, that's what I have heard about SERE. It sounds very brutal, but at the same time people say it was worth it. I also forgot to ask, once you get through SERE school and are taking Aeromed/Systems classes, do you go home each night? I would assume so, but just checking.

[SBuzzkill]

Yep. BCT, WOCS, and SERE are the only courses you will not be living on your own.

Edited May 13, 2010 by SBuzzkill

[eaw913]

Sounds good. Now I really just have to keep stacking up on the information and getting ready from now until I fill out the packet.

[rotorgrrl]

 

 

All 148 pages of things that will disqualify you from flying for the Army. I really don't know how they get enough applicants that meet such stringent requirements. If you've ever sneezed three times in a row, sharted yourself or had blue balls, you're probably out. And as far as waivers go, perhaps I was misinformed. I was told by a Guard WO recruiter who contacted a doctor at MEPS that it's extremely difficult if not impossible to get a waiver in the first place and any waiver on your application to WOFT immediately sets you back, especially during the board review. You should definitely verify this.

 

 

Hi, I have spent the last six months or so researching WOFT options. I got a lot of good info from Lindsey, she's a great resource. I'd like to comment on the medical process. Basically, it comes down to the motivation of the MEPS doctor for getting you a basic medical and also the motivation of the flight surgeon to vouch for you. The ultimate authority on the flight medical is the director at Ft. Rucker, so the process could still happen as green green green : red. The MEPS doctor has a choice when reviewing your file - pass, disqualified and waiverable or disqualified and non-waiverable. About.com has a great article on medical waivers, go ahead and google it. If you have a medically disqualifying condition, the MEPS doctor decides whether or not to spend the time and military resources on allowing for extra screening processes that might get you through. Not all doctors are motivated to do this, in which you would get a non-waiverable status. Then you're dead in the water. Technically you can appeal this decision, but it's impossible to find another military doctor who would want to do approve your medical that was previously denied. Additionally, even if you have a condition that is waived, it's still a convoluted process on who signs off on it.

 

Bottom line - it can't hurt to try. And knowledge IS power. I heard through a recruiter that MEPS will be replaced with a screening process similar to the DODMERB this summer (civilian contracted clinics used for the ROTC medical screening process). If that's the case, then there would be a more objective perspective on who is "medically fit" as civilian doctors would be less inclined to rule out an applicant who is medically fit but inconvenient to work with.

 

Also, back to the original poster, go ahead and talk to some Army recruiters. Ask them questions on how to get a very competitive packet put together. Take some flight lessons, or better yet get your PPL. I have spoken with recruiters and when you make it clear that you want to put in a packet without first enlisting, they can be very helpful. It depends on the recruiter in terms of how informed they are, so if you talk to one who doesn't know when the board dates are, etc - or who has never had a successful WOFT application accepted, then find another recruiter. I wouldn't be concerned about the quotas thing, as the recruiters in Seattle (a very difficult location to recruit in, I might add) met their four year mission quota in the first two years. A depressed economy can be very good for military recruitment.

[eaw913]

Okay, so I originally forgot to mention that I have taken the ASVAB. I took it back in 11th grade, and I got a score of 75 then. Not sure how that translates into the GT score, but I would definitely like to take it again later on before I send in my packet.

[SBuzzkill]

Retake it.

[eaw913]

What score should I aim for?

[Lindsey]

Always aim high! Highest is a 99 AFQT. No one knows the highest GT score. Just study your butt off, and you won't need to worry.

[eaw913]

"Also, back to the original poster, go ahead and talk to some Army recruiters. Ask them questions on how to get a very competitive packet put together. Take some flight lessons, or better yet get your PPL. I have spoken with recruiters and when you make it clear that you want to put in a packet without first enlisting, they can be very helpful. It depends on the recruiter in terms of how informed they are, so if you talk to one who doesn't know when the board dates are, etc - or who has never had a successful WOFT application accepted, then find another recruiter. I wouldn't be concerned about the quotas thing, as the recruiters in Seattle (a very difficult location to recruit in, I might add) met their four year mission quota in the first two years. A depressed economy can be very good for military recruitment."

 

I was planning to go in and discuss the WOFT packet with a recruiter this Sunday. I would like to get into it and start preparing for it right now so I can build it up and work on it until I am ready to send it in. Thanks for the information. I will look around.

 

And to Lindsey: Should I get that ASVAB for dummies or whatever it was to study? Cause other than that I'm unsure of how to study for it.

[Lindsey]

"Also, back to the original poster, go ahead and talk to some Army recruiters. Ask them questions on how to get a very competitive packet put together. Take some flight lessons, or better yet get your PPL. I have spoken with recruiters and when you make it clear that you want to put in a packet without first enlisting, they can be very helpful. It depends on the recruiter in terms of how informed they are, so if you talk to one who doesn't know when the board dates are, etc - or who has never had a successful WOFT application accepted, then find another recruiter. I wouldn't be concerned about the quotas thing, as the recruiters in Seattle (a very difficult location to recruit in, I might add) met their four year mission quota in the first two years. A depressed economy can be very good for military recruitment."

 

I was planning to go in and discuss the WOFT packet with a recruiter this Sunday. I would like to get into it and start preparing for it right now so I can build it up and work on it until I am ready to send it in. Thanks for the information. I will look around.

 

And to Lindsey: Should I get that ASVAB for dummies or whatever it was to study? Cause other than that I'm unsure of how to study for it.

 

I didn't purchase it myself - someone loaned me the Barron's ASVAB study guide...which was only helpful insofar as the practice tests go. For *studying* for the ASVAB, I do highly recommend ASVAB for Dummies. While I didn't buy it, I did spend a couple hours in Barnes and Noble perusing the ASVAB section, and that particular book was most helpful (I was pretty lost on the Mechanical section, and that book laid it out pretty clearly). Furthermore, on most forums where this particular subject is discussed, ASVAB for Dummies has been quite highly recommended.

 

As far as strategies for how to study for it, I suggest the following:

1) Take a practice test without studying for anything. Score it. Identify your weaknesses (not just "math" but really look at it - which parts of the math sections did you really struggle with? Algebra? Geometry? The questions where it asks you what is a certain percentage of this number?)

2) Get ASVAB for Dummies. Go over those sections you struggled with.

3) Take another practice test. Identify which sections you are still struggling with. Go over those parts in ASVAB for Dummies again.

4) Take another practice test (yes, another!). If you are still struggling with those same sections, hop on over to the bookstore and spend some time in the ASVAB section. Maybe that particular book just isn't "clicking" for you. No one says you have to buy them, just sit down and read those sections that pertain to you.

 

Repeat the above until you feel confident. Remember, for WOFT you ONLY need to focus on the GT score. Look up what that is. Basically, it is one of the math sections and verbal reasoning and paragraph comprehension. Study those as a priority. Yes, this means that you could totally fail the Mechanical Aptitude section and still get a killer GT score. Just know that if you change your mind later and want to enlist as a Helicopter Mechanic, all of a sudden that Mechanical Aptitude score becomes important. So don't totally disregard it, but it's not a priority for WOFT.

 

Hope that helps,

Lindsey

[eaw913]

That is actually wonderful information. So far you haven't failed me, Lindsey! I appreciate the information more than you know!

 

If I have any other questions I will be sure to come back and ask. For now, I will work on scheduling my flight physical and start studying for the ASVAB. Which actually brings me to a new question... if I take the ASVAB within the next year, but I wait until three years after taking it to send in my application will it be alright? I guess my question here is will the score "expire". Like, if I take it 6 months from now and make a 99 (hopefully!) on it, would I need to take it again before sending it in so that it is "up-to-date"?

[Lindsey]

That is actually wonderful information. So far you haven't failed me, Lindsey! I appreciate the information more than you know!

 

If I have any other questions I will be sure to come back and ask. For now, I will work on scheduling my flight physical and start studying for the ASVAB. Which actually brings me to a new question... if I take the ASVAB within the next year, but I wait until three years after taking it to send in my application will it be alright? I guess my question here is will the score "expire". Like, if I take it 6 months from now and make a 99 (hopefully!) on it, would I need to take it again before sending it in so that it is "up-to-date"?

 

If I'm not mistaken, the ASVAB score is only good for 2 years for civilians. So yeah, you would have to retake it, unfortunately. Keep in mind, however, that you don't have to wait until you graduate college (if that is the route you are taking) to put in a WOFT packet. You can be accepted for WOFT and delay your ship date up to a year (so if you graduate in May 20XX, you can apply and be accepted for the WOFT board in, say, October, and delay your ship date until after you graduate). I'm running on fumes, been a long day, so apologies if that doesn't make sense. Just say so and I'll revisit in the morning.

[eaw913]

Actually it makes perfect sense. And that's great because then I can send it in a little early and just wait to go. That way I can enjoy my final year of college instead of stressing about the packet!

 

I will also plan to take the ASVAB a couple years from now and just prepare for it for the meantime. That way it will still be good by the time I send it in.

 

Thanks, Lindsey.

[Flying Bison]

Wow, a lot of good information in this thread, especially the blurb Lindsey wrote about the WOFT application/selection process. I wish I had known all that going in.

 

A big thing to remember with this whole WOFT thing is that patience is virtue. Ive been in the application process almost a year now, and finally will be attending my battalion board next week. It's a long road, but if it is really what you want, you will stay determined.