Do you have to pay for the briefingtime on dual flights?

[warmkiter]

HI

 

Lets say you have booked a dual flight with an instructor. The slot is the usual 2 hours. Prior to the flight, you ask to go quickly throug the lesson.I think this makes sense, especially if its the first time you fly with this instructor. After a quick brief you kick the tire & light the fire and go flying for about one hour+. With briefing, preflight, flying and postflight, it all ads up for about 2 hours. Did you ever had to pay 30min groundschool on top of the dual flight time for the Briefing?

Was a totally new refreshing experience for me

 

L

[ADRidge]

If I as an instructor give you 30 minutes of ground, I'd sure like to be paid for it.

 

Many schools will tack on a .2 ground whether you actually get any ground briefing or not, and I think that's a load of bull. I say if they're making you pay for pre and postflight briefings, you should get your instructor to give you a briefing.

[Trans Lift]

That would be much too excessive if they were adding that to every flight. The typical, as AD said, is 0.2 debrief. If this is being added on you should be getting a good debrief of everything covered during the lesson and questions that you have about the flight.

[apiaguy]

to the original post... depends on what flight school you go to.

 

Most of the bigger "brand name" schools... yes, you will be billed for all time with the instructor.

 

Some mom and pop schools you won't be billed for anything but flight time unless you're having a "ground training" session with your instructor.

 

It is something that can add up to quite a bit... check with current students and the particular school to see what their trend is.

[ChprPlt]

If you were there for two hours I think paying for 1.5 sounds reasonable. Lots of learning happens before and after the flight. If you plan on getting your CFI you will understand when you get there. As a CFI you spend a lot of time making $0.00 per hour. If your getting ground expect to pay. Ground is cheap!

[kodoz]

Ground is cheap!

 

Agree. If you got a valuable 0.5 pre-flight and a 0.5 post-flight, you should happily pay the man, thank him for making the effort to provide you with excellent training, and stop scheduling lessons with the instructors who are happy to do a pre-/post-flight (for free) as you are walking out to the helicopter.

[r22butters]

Here's a suggestion. Just charge two different rates? Let's say $20/hr for a ground lesson, and $30/hr for a flight lesson.

 

That way if your flight lesson went for an hour,(and you just charge him for an hour), but you also spent 15-20min. on pre/post flight, you're covered,...and the student won't think you're 'knit-picking' when he sees the bill?

Edited April 11, 2011 by r22butters

[heligirl03]

We charged a standard .3 pre/post for flight lessons. Most flights averaged 1.3 on the Hobbs. Students signed up for 2hr blocks. I never charged for the additional time spent with a student regardless of the topic and no matter how long it ran on. So for every 2hr block I generally received 1.6hrs worth of pay. I often flew with 4 or 5 students in a day, making for at least an 8-10hr work day, 6 days a week. If you do the math that is 1.6-2.0 hours of work PER DAY, and as much as 12 hours PER WEEK. At an average of $20/hr that could be as much as 48hrs and $960/mo in uncompensated work. For a flight instructor that is HUGE, although I wasn't thinking that way at the time.

 

If the rules are laid out clearly in the beginning, it serves both the student and instructor better and no one is surprised by the bill in the end. It teaches students to respect an instructor's time and knowledge and to plan for their 2hr block. It requires the instructor to actually provide the expected service/education. Set a good example AND earn some gas $$.

 

Frankly, the most valuable information I got as a student was while sitting around before/after flight lessons chatting about the flight, the weather, the schedule, the industry, maintenance, etc etc etc. Had I known just HOW valuable it was, I would have GLADLY paid the CFIs even more for their time! The rules were not clear, however, and I didn't know any better then. I also flew with a few higher-time CFIs who weren't starving for food or hours so it was a little looser. But in a typical situation, that .2 or .3 is some of the most valuable time a student spends with their CFI regardless of precisely how it's used. If you spend $65k over 200hrs, I'd say that the $2500 (

 

HG03

[warmkiter]

Hi

 

If i am scheduled for groundschool, its groundschool time and groundschool pay. No problem with that. But being automatically charged groundschool for a flightlesson was new for me.

 

When i used to instruct my self, the briefing was free of charge. A cockpit is a very bad classroom. Noisy, vibrating and students are tense, so its a lot easiear to go over the lessonplan in a quick brief prior the flightlesson. This should be the standart. In the US its pretty much:" light the fire and kick the tire(skid)". Not much emphasis on preflight briefings. Postflight briefing is even less common. Where the student has everythin fresh in memory and maybe a dozens of questions buzzing around, a quick postflight brief makes the lesson more solid in the memory.

 

The great majority of instructors a keen to get the hours, but oversee that instruction teaches them also a lot. A proper briefing is not an oneway road. They would increase they own level of knowledge, situation awareness and airmanship too.

 

I am not talking about one hour briefings. If its standart stuff, a few minutes are enough. If i ask the Instructor who rolls off the throttle on a hover auto, who sets the needle split on autos etc and i get charged automatically half hour ground, then thats not ok.

 

Lars

 

ATP(A),CFI(A),CPL(H) 13K TT

[heligirl03]

I guess the original question then was if it is standard practice these days to charge a ground instruction rate for pre/post flight briefing, as it sounds like that was not always the case, at least in airplanes. At the schools I've worked with over the last 5 years, yes, expect to pay for briefings, usually a standard amount...although .5 is definitely the highest I've heard. If you're not getting what you pay for, well that sounds like an issue that you probably want to address with your CFI first. If you like him otherwise, at least give him a chance to make good. And I agree, a lot of instructors far underestimate the value teaching is to themselves at the time. I know I'm in the minority but I loved teaching, probably why I ended up giving so much time away

[skier]

I have to say this is a topic that hits a nerve with me.

 

My first flight school tacked on 0.3 for ground to every flight I took. I have been other places where you aren't charged for ground unless it is scheduled as a lesson. I have been at still other flight schools where the instructor charges based on how much time he spends with you each flight. I was fine with all of these situations.

 

The one that really annoyed me was a flight instructor with whom I only flew once. We went up and flew around for about 1 hour. We then got down did a little post flight, maybe 0.1. We then just talked for a few minutes about stuff, nothing related to the lesson or instruction, just some general BS that happens at the airport (I thought as a friendly conversation). When he billed me, he billed me for the time we spent BSing. Needless to say, I never went back to him again.

 

I am perfectly ok with instructors charging for ground that is given, but make sure it is actually ground instruction. Also make sure the student knows what time he is being billed for and what time he is not being billed for.

[r22butters]

...he billed me for the time we spent BSing. Needless to say, I never went back to him again...

 

Maybe we should have instructors wear 'taxi-cab' style meters on their belts, so you always know,...when the meter's running?