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R22 Killer?


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The Base Manager at the helicopter flight school I work at said that he's seen online photos of a soon to be released helicopter that he dubbed "the R22 killer" saying that it would be around the cost of the R22, a similar size to the 44 and have a turbine engine in it. He also said that it had a Fenestron tail rotor. After looking online for something and coming up empty handed I was curious if anyone here has heard or seen such a thing.

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If anything like that existed, it certainly would be an R22 killer...

 

Closest things that come to mind are the cabri g2 (2 seat, fenestron, but with 0-360 powerplant)

 

The only small turbine announced "recently" that I'm aware of was the Rotorway Eagle 300T, but I am fairly certain that is a permanently shelved project.

Edited by wait4me
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There is a machine that fits the description, except for the "R22 killer" part.

 

New Zealands Ultrasport 496T is a 2 seat turbine helicopter, similar performance to an R22, bit slower but lifts a bit more.

 

 

However, it is ugly not certified and thus not an R22 killer... not comparable to a certified machine like the Cabri.

 

Very small turbine engines like these have quite a few disadvantages, the main one being that they are very thirsty for the amount of power they have. They may be light, but you have to carry (and pay for) a lot more fuel....

 

Its a scale thing, turbines just become more efficient the bigger you make them.

Edited by lelebebbel
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That being said however, Robinson company has said that they are no longer going to manufacture the R22 because they have more sales for R44's.

 

Not true, I was just at the safety course in April and they stated there are no plans to discontinue production of the R22.

 

Kandace

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I found this Ultrasport 555T base price from what I found was 175k dollars for a new one. I did not find any thing about it being certified or not. I would assume not. But that would be bad for Robinson if they do get certified. Tell me who would not pay to do all there training in a turbine and just add R44 and R22 hours to teach? Yes turbines are more expensive to operate but......... I have to convert the specs over from metric. When I do I will post them unless someone beats me to it.

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'The Ultrasport 496 was designed to meet the FAA regulations as a Two Seats Ultralight Trainer Version. The first 496 Flight was completed in July 1995. It has since undergone complete flight trials and features a powerful 95 hp engine (deratized from 110hp), to replace the 55hp of the single seat. The 496 has double standard flight controls. Further optionals such as a balistic parachute, floats, running lights and the barycentric hook can be installed later on.

 

The spec are here at this site for the 496

 

http://www.creas-it.it/asi_uk/496.htm

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The 496 was powered by a 2-stroke engine. The 496T is the newer version with the tiny turbine. Both are Ultralight category.

 

They are cheap because they are not certified. The certification process costs huge amounts of money. Parts that cost $100 to make uncertified, suddenly cost $2,000 because of all the testing and paperwork that is involved. If they were to redesign the helicopters to make them certifiable, expect to see a few numbers change on that $175k price tag. That's not even considering the engine certification.

Edited by lelebebbel
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Hey,

I read about this heli a few years back. This heli is larger than a 22 and slightly smaller than a 44, but has a diesel engine and standard tailrotor.

 

Delta Helicopters link

 

I had not seen this one before...very cool looking ship and features. I would love to fly it, as soon as you put 10,000 hours on it first.

 

Bottom line, R22's filled a niche that needed to be filled. Even with all their success, Frank had some years where it was the skin of his teeth to keep the company going. Now that the niche is filled with 6000 or so R22's, it makes it really difficult (read impossible) for someone else to succeed in that same market.

 

I forecasted that they would stop the R22 production when the R66 went live. Instead, they built another 135K sq feet of space to keep all the lines going.(read-I was wrong!) I believe Kurt when he told me he has no plans to stop building the R22....prices may keep going up, and why shouldnt they? As long as he sells enough, no reason to give them away.

 

Absolutely no manufacturer will ever have the kind of success with a 2 seater as Frank did.

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Absolutely no manufacturer will ever have the kind of success with a 2 seater as Frank did.

 

Yep, right place , right time, right idea!

;)

 

Last time I heard the "story of the R22", I couldn't help but wonder; Where was the H269 during all that? Anyone know?

:huh:

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Not true, I was just at the safety course in April and they stated there are no plans to discontinue production of the R22.

 

Kandace

Kandace, sweet. I was there last year and Frank Robinson hinted as such himself. Obviously Frank (or his son because he's now letting his son run the company) changed their minds. That's great news for a great helicopter!

 

Then again, when Frank originally designed the R22 (on his living room floor), he also touted that it would be an "affordable helicopter for the averaged income family" Hahahahaaha, man was that ever a joke!!!!

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Last time I heard the "story of the R22", I couldn't help but wonder; Where was the H269 during all that? Anyone know?

:huh:

 

 

The H269 has always been the much more complicated, more expensive design.

I believe it could have been a lot more successful with a few changes. Like, a more aerodynamic 2-seat cab for higher speed and less fuel burn. Smaller panel. Simplify a few things.

They should have turned it into the obvious "upscale alternative" to the R22, and more people would have paid the extra $$ for it.

But the fact that it is actually slower than a R22, while burning more fuel gave it a disadvantage.

 

Also, you have to consider the effect of the R44s success. Lots of folks train in R22 because they expect to end up in a R44 one day.

 

And now, both the R22 and the H269 are just outdated.

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I mean from a technological point of view. The 269 was certified over 50 years ago, the R22 is over 35 years old. Both have had some modifications, but the basic airframes are the same. You can see how far technology has come if you compare them to the Cabri. I don't think Robinson or Schweizer will be able to update their machines to get anywhere near that. There won't be a R22 Beta 3*

 

 

 

* I hear Robinson actually did have plans for a Beta 3, but scrapped them in favor of the R66

Edited by lelebebbel
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Last time I heard the "story of the R22", I couldn't help but wonder; Where was the H269 during all that? Anyone know?

:huh:

 

Most of those 269's were military ships...they are slow as hell and the earlier birds require a lot more maintenance. They came out with the 300Cbi years too late to have any affect on R22 sales. Oh yeah, they cost a lot more too. About 100K more than an R22.

 

I remember when brand new R22's were 99K each.....should have bought a dozen.

 

All that said, if you can afford a 300C, its a great lil helicopter and very solid in the wind compared to the 22.

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Most of those 269's were military ships...they are slow as hell and the earlier birds require a lot more maintenance. They came out with the 300Cbi years too late to have any affect on R22 sales. Oh yeah, they cost a lot more too. About 100K more than an R22.

 

I remember when brand new R22's were 99K each.....should have bought a dozen.

 

All that said, if you can afford a 300C, its a great lil helicopter and very solid in the wind compared to the 22.

 

I've flown the CB/CBi, it definitely ain't worth 100k more than an R22! Hell, it ain't even worth ten bucks more an hour!

 

I wouldn't mind trying the "C" model, sadly the only local operator I knew that had those "other" trainers, was Bristow, and they didn't have a "C" model, plus they're closing up as of the end of the month.

:mellow:

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I knew that had those "other" trainers, was Bristow, and they didn't have a "C" model, plus they're closing up as of the end of the month.

:mellow:

 

 

What do you mean they are closing? Which one?

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What do you mean they are closing? Which one?

 

Its the one in Concord, California. I called them about a week ago to do a flight, and he said they were closing their doors on the 30th,...I didn't ask why.

 

I'm sure the one in Titsville is still running. :D

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