Post-WOCS, Pre-IERW

zVo · October 21, 2011

This forum is LOADED with "Hey, these are my packet stats - what are my chances?" type threads. I thought I'd mix it up and post a little bit about what my experience has been so far as someone who joined as a civilian street-to-seat'r and recently graduated WOCS.

My experience is unique like everybody else that goes through training. Your mileage will vary depending on training doctrine, where you go to training, the commander's policies, who your cadre are, who your classmates are, and what you put into it. In other words, there's too many variables out there to say 'Your experience will likely be XYZ.' Of course, I have my own perception and bias as well, so keep that in mind.

I started my Basic Combat Training toward the end of May this year at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. In short, BCT is easy... dealing with young 17-year old high school kids on a summer split-option contract is not. For those of you unfamiliar, the split-option is where teens -- still in high school -- are able to go to BCT over the summer, finish their senior year at home, then go to AIT. A few other warrant officer candidates and myself got thrown into the inferno that is BCT with split-ops. The result is 200-some recruits piled into one training company, and it was a logistical nightmare. Most of our drill sergeants were assigned to Leonard Wood fresh off of deployment, so most of them were not too enthused to be dealing with undisciplined privates after spending a year in the sandbox (you would be, too). Add that to 100+ degree summer days, a barracks with broken air conditioning, and ridiculous TRADOC training events, and it's a recipe for affliction.

There's plenty to read out there about what goes on at BCT, but I was surprised at how much downtime we had. I spent endless hours sitting on a tile floor in the barracks. The PT was underwhelming and I had actually become weaker during BCT. The hardest part was getting enough time to eat, as we usually only had 3-5 minutes at our seat to eat as much as possible -- which I found to be the biggest barrier to gaining strength or maintaining muscle mass for that matter (e.g. do push-ups on your own).

I met my goal of blending into the bunch completely; the drill sergeants never knew my name throughout training. It's simple: do what's asked of you, be in the right place at the right time and in the right uniform, and shut up. That got me through BCT (and WOCS) unscathed.

Anyway.

WOCS is a completely different beast.

In many ways, I thought it was a lot easier than BCT. It's definitely not like the WOCS of old where it had one of the highest washout rates of all the military schools. I managed to slide through the cracks and avoid most of the leadership positions (most of which are a joke anyway) and additional duties.

The toughest part about WOCS was the first couple weeks of the '7-minute drill' in the morning. Once you develop a routine and figure out how to work together with your classmates, it becomes much easier. That being said, the toughest part of WOCS wasn't all that hard. Most everyone psyched themselves out before the class started, and it ended up not being all that bad.

we showed at the graduation reception if you want a very loose idea of what goes on there (mainly because it's mostly a bunch of us screwing around).

In retrospect, WOCS was actually kinda fun. You hate it, but you love it. There's a lot of ridiculous 'attention to detail' rules in place, and a lot of it everyone ends up laughing about. Just remember what you're there for, because it's really easy to lose sight of flight school throughout the training process.

Anyway, I've completed my new flight physical and am awaiting DUNKER, BOLC, & SERE-C. I was spared being put on detail at B Co. up until recently, but I am amazed at the amount of free time we have right now. This whole B Co. thing is ridiculous and maybe someone could better explain why it's so disorganized despite the decades of its existence.

The long wait for IERW continues.

MedictoPilot · October 21, 2011

here is why I always shake my head whenever I hear a street to seat guy complaining about things like B co. Being in the 1st week of the Apache course and prior enlisted, I have found that most people who have not had a real military leadership experience understand what goes on. This includes new LT's and a select few reservist or national guardsman(since those branches are made up of generally full time citizens and weekend warriors). B company is a very large company, much much larger than the average size military company. Then when you throw in the very important accountability and TRADOC regs into the mix, well, you have a very difficult company to manage. Most people don't understand that the Tue, Thurs meetings for example are not a B co doing. It is a TRADOC requirement that the company incharge of students much have visual accountability with all students everyday. B co actually helped us out by compromising with TRADOC and bringing that to only two times a week. Now, when you throw in new LT's along with street to seat guys(especially the young ones) along with single soldiers and the inexperience of being in the military, well, this is how you get the BSing. You have to understand that your leadership has to be accountable for you and someone higher up the chain is making these requirements, not B company, they are just complying with what they are told to do and I guarantee you that B company does try to reason when they can. That is only a very small portion of the work involved to run a company x10. So I suggest you stop complaining and embrace the very expensive training you are going to recieve. (excuse my grammar and spelling)

Death2Daleks · October 21, 2011

Wow MedictoPilot...

I don't think zVo complained once in his whole post, which I found to be informative and pretty much identical to all of my military "boot camp" cycles over the last decade.

The only thing I find funny is him "liking" his own post

With that said, about the B Co. thing, "hurry up and wait" has long been a trademark military slogan. Even moreso when it comes to the aviation side of the house. For example, when I graduated from the Naval Academy, I waited about 8 months just to class up for API! After that, it was about a 3 or 4 month wait for primary. Going from intermediate to advanced was, I think, like a 6 month wait [i got lost in the system, they thought I was an Air Force guy, turns out - hey, I'm Navy! This kind of stuff happens all the time.]

What's essentially happening is - they got a specific number of aircraft and instructor pilots, which means they got a specific number of "seats" available. The pools can grow ridiculously large as the students matriculate through the pipeline. Imagine the size of the pool right after graduation season.. it's obviously at its greatest.

One tip, if you need it: keep current through all the waiting... aviation is a perishable skill, and it's embarrassing to hear some of the advanced guy's radio calls when you're in intermediate and doing better than them on the approach calls, simply because they've been out of the jet for 6 months.

akscott60 · October 21, 2011

How long do you have to wait until BOLC? Enjoy Bco. It sucks. We all know it, its life. You will get massed punished for individual mistakes.

Flying is fun. It will be worth it.

SBuzzkill · October 22, 2011

I don't know what flight school you guys are going to but B Co kicked ass for me. When not in school we came in for PT in the morning and formation afterwards. We were free to go by about 11 and we took advantage of that. Opportunities for 4 day passes were everywhere and it was easy to take leave whenever you wanted it. Details were slim and the local area, while boring, was close enough to some cool spots that we had no trouble finding fun sh*t to do on the weekend.

Everything up until SERE is easy. Dunker, JOPD, B Co, it's all just a walk in the park. Enjoy it because before long you're going to be spending 3 weeks for SERE school and then it's hammer time. Even if you're a high speed pilot dude IERW will still tire you out. Waking up at 3:50 in the morning to catch the bus sucks, and BWS is a pain in the ass (but some of the best flying you will do). Trust me, once me and my buddies hit IERW we stopped doing stuff on the weekends simply because we were either too busy or too tired to go out of town.

Unfortunately, I don't think you guys are getting a bubble in between IERW and advance airframe anymore. That sucks because it was an awesome time to reset and get ready for the next push through FSXXI. I must say however, if you pick 58s your time in FSXII will be substantially easier than IERW. You're going to be forced to learn a lot more, but by that time you're gonna have your study strategies down. I have heard otherwise from the 60 guys... Just saying.

Anyways, use this free time to enjoy yourself. Put a pass in and go down to Orlando. Head to Tallahasee (college town, go for a football game, enough said). Atlanta is only 4 hours away and is an awesome city. Go down to the Gulf, but stay away from Destin/Panama City unless you're into the tourist on crack thing. Oscars is cool if you like hanging out with a bunch of Joes. Personally we'd head over to Sportsmans Lounge in Level Plains. It's a dive, but I have never been in there without someone buying us drinks or giving us rounds on the house. I never got to go up to Troy but I heard it was kind of the hidden gem, much better than Dothan.

When you do start flying try to make it fun for yourself. It's going to be stressful and nothing like you're expecting. Primary is going to suck, that's just the way it is. You're going to get bored your 100th time around the pattern. Can't help it. But instruments will be a nice break for some of you. I loved it. We'd hop in the aircraft, fly to somewhere in Lower Alabama, shut down and go into the FBO and chat it up for 15 minutes. Then we'd switch seats and I'd enjoy the view from the back for the next hour.

I don't know if they're still going to have you guys do maps for BWS, but I assume they will as I don't think that's going away any time soon. A lot of guys pay to have their maps done. Personally I made my own, and honestly my maps are one of the things I will always remember about flight school. It was hell putting them together, but I was so proud of those things when I was done. Make a light board and buy the little map packet from whatever store sells it.

Flying doors off in the 58A/Cs is a blast but you're probably going to take a few flights to figure out how you want to organize yourself in the cockpit without your stuff flying out the side. Don't worry, we all went through that. Laminate everything you can and put a ring through it that connects it to your knee-board. Look at what your IPs are using.

Radios: Everyone sounds stupid on the radios. You don't have to sound exactly like your IP. Eventually you'll figure out your own style but until then just keep things simple. "Tower, Mustang 21 ready for takeoff east sod with zulu" works much better than "Cairns Tower Mustand 21 is holding in the east sod ready for takeoff with information zulu two persons on board 68 gallons of JP8, two helmet bags, one -10, our covers are stowed in the back and we are turning our landing light on."

Lots of guys are going to fret over what aircraft they are going to select. Don't worry about it so much. Study up, take your tests, do your checkrides and be done with it. When selection day comes, pick whatever aircraft you are attracted to. It's simple. You're going to be happy with whatever you pick, I promise.

Last, make some friends. I don't know what type of guy you are and what sort of social situations you like to put yourself in, but if you can make lots of friends in flight school you're going to have invaluable connections for later on. It will also make your time down at Rucker soooo much better.

SBuzzkill · October 22, 2011

Wow that was a wall of text. Sorry about that

zVo · October 22, 2011

MedictoPilot,

If I'm not mistaken - to go along with what you said - B Co. is the largest company in the entire military. That's what they've told us, and I believe it. We're literally talking about 3k+ individuals belonging to Bravo Co., so I understand why they're so congested with paperwork over there. And I second Death2Daleks -- I don't believe I was complaining about B Co. at all, simply probing for answers as to why things are the way they are here. Thank you for shedding some light on the process; I didn't know, for example, the influence TRADOC had even in daily operations here while not in a school. Certainly they do a good job when considering the size of the beast, I just expected to be a little busier here than what I have been. I remember a CW3 telling us when we were in-processing that "If it seems like you have too much time on your hands while you're here, don't panic: the feeling is normal." When I say I think it's ridiculous here, I'm talking about the 400-some officers all doing PRT in the morning when you've got just what you described -- a lot of LTs and WO1s goofing off. I only disagree with you that it's the young guys BSing. The seasoned vets are the ones up to all the mischief here.

Death2Daleks, I know the Navy & USMC still have long holdovers nowadays, but wow -- that's crazy that you had six months in between intermediate and advanced! Great tip, I'll take it with me just in case I'm put in that situation. I know Fort Rucker has done a really good job minimizing the bubble here, but in contrast, we're "flying" here compared to what's going on in Naval aviation.

akscott60, most of us aren't waiting more than 1.5 months to class up for BOLC. We're excited to be starting so soon, especially hearing from other warrants here that some of them had to wait to 8 months to class up. Haha, and I wouldn't necessarily say B Co sucks -- I mean it sucks that we're not in training at flight school, but it definitely could be worse. I'm grateful, believe me.

And SBuzzkill, that's the kind of information I'm gonna have to pass along to my buddies. Thank you! Again, I think it's funny I got accused for complaining about B Co. It's just such a laid back gig, I'm surprised we're not doing more. I'm with you, it's an awesome opportunity that we can take pass just about every week and charge our batteries up for the intensive training coming up. A lot of us are still getting ourselves situated down here (my movers arrived yesterday), but that's some great advice SBuzzkill -- we all definitely want to venture outside the local area, and not just Panama City. I didn't realize there's so much to do if you get in your car and drive for a little more than 45 minutes.

Again, SBuzzkill, I'm taking notes. That's all great advice and pointers. Right now, my classmates and I are just kind of stumbling through this while trying to get a feel for the bigger picture of what's going on here. I'm sure I have dozens of questions I want to ask you, but it's late and you already covered a lot in your post. I really appreciate it, and I'll be referencing when you said a lot in the near future.

Edited October 22, 2011 by zVo

SBuzzkill · October 22, 2011

here is why I always shake my head whenever I hear a street to seat guy complaining about things like B co. Being in the 1st week of the Apache course and prior enlisted, I have found that most people who have not had a real military leadership experience understand what goes on. This includes new LT's and a select few reservist or national guardsman(since those branches are made up of generally full time citizens and weekend warriors). B company is a very large company, much much larger than the average size military company. Then when you throw in the very important accountability and TRADOC regs into the mix, well, you have a very difficult company to manage. Most people don't understand that the Tue, Thurs meetings for example are not a B co doing. It is a TRADOC requirement that the company incharge of students much have visual accountability with all students everyday. B co actually helped us out by compromising with TRADOC and bringing that to only two times a week. Now, when you throw in new LT's along with street to seat guys(especially the young ones) along with single soldiers and the inexperience of being in the military, well, this is how you get the BSing. You have to understand that your leadership has to be accountable for you and someone higher up the chain is making these requirements, not B company, they are just complying with what they are told to do and I guarantee you that B company does try to reason when they can. That is only a very small portion of the work involved to run a company x10. So I suggest you stop complaining and embrace the very expensive training you are going to recieve. (excuse my grammar and spelling)

Flight school is a learning experience for all of us man. For street to seat guys the only experience they have in the Army has been BCT and WOCS which are both very structured in their day to day life. Up until this point they've known exactly what the next day has in store for them. Coming right out of there, knowing nothing else, to B Co is going to be a bit of a shock for some guys.

I don't know if you've experienced an aviation unit yet but there's a lot more bitching in store for your career. I hope you can drive on without getting a neck injury from shaking your head so much.