UAVs

[jimbo2181]

Meant to post this a while ago for those who don't think UAVs will be a force to reckon with in our life time.

 

[nightsta1ker]

The FAA is going to approve UAV's for flight over sovereign U.S. soil very soon. I think it's going to be a game changer for a lot of LE agencies. Not good for us pilots, unless you don't mind sitting in an air conditioned trailer watching a screen while you monitor the flight of your aircraft from waypoint to waypoint.

[avbug]

UAV/UAS have been in constant use in the US for nearly fifteen years.

 

Surprise, surprise.

[jimbo2181]

Not commercially

[Flying Pig]

The FAA is going to approve UAV's for flight over sovereign U.S. soil very soon. I think it's going to be a game changer for a lot of LE agencies. Not good for us pilots, unless you don't mind sitting in an air conditioned trailer watching a screen while you monitor the flight of your aircraft from waypoint to waypoint.

 

No, not like you would think. Agencies that cant afford helicopters have been using this technology for a long time. Agencies that can afford manned aircraft will still buy them. These arent "UAVs" For the most part, they are small RC aircraft with cameras on them. Thats why I laugh when people say LE aviation is threatened. It clearly displays the complete lack of understanding for what LE air units do. Flying around looking at things with a camera is probably about 10% of our mission. Will the day come? Maybe. But not in the 20yrs I have left to retire. Any true UAV that can long line, rescue people off of cliff faces, transport VIPs and land and help a real cop on the ground when his back up is still 20 minutes away will be far more expensive than any MD500.

[iChris]

Maybe. But not in the 20yrs I have left to retire. Any true UAV that can long line, rescue people off of cliff faces, transport VIPs and land and help a real cop on the ground when his back up is still 20 minutes away will be far more expensive than any MD500.

 

 

The expensive part of the equation is relative. It's all currently in the works. This is just a small part of what's already around the bend.

 

Unmanned drones for aerial surveillance are now routine. UAV systems that can use weapons are also routine now. What isn’t routine yet is cargo resupply, but the Marines are asking for it in Afghanistan. That’s no easy task, since the country’s geography really hates helicopters. Can a helicopter UAV handle Afghanistan’s high altitude terrain, and show that it has what it takes to get its cargo exactly where it needs to go? The Marines think so. Adm. Bill Shannon, NAVAIR Program Executive Officer for Unmanned Aviation and Strike Weapons, says:

 

“We are trying to get this much needed capability to the warfighter as quickly as possible…. By evaluating two different systems, we have the ability to accelerate development of technology and use it immediately to support the warfighter while maintaining competition.”

 

From its inception, the competition has been a battle between Lockheed Martin’s larger-capacity but shorter-endurance K-MAX, and Boeing’s quiet, ultra long-endurance A160T Hummingbird. K-MAX won, and the Marines’ cargo UAV experiment began.

 

http://youtu.be/vcmF-HgV5d0

Edited October 13, 2012 by iChris

[Flying Pig]

Im fully aware of the USMC Kamax. Again, LE agencies being able to afford the level of technology that would be required to do what I see LE air units doing is way off. Most LE agencies will need to operate their aicraft beyond the line of sight. For that you need to start having a pretty serious ground station set up. Not to mention, most LE air units routinely transport people as well. Im not saying the day isnt coming. But the day it puts me out of business is pretty far off.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Flying Pig

[iChris]

Im fully aware of the USMC Kamax. Again, LE agencies being able to afford the level of technology that would be required to do what I see LE air units doing is way off.

 

But the day it puts me out of business is pretty far off.

 

 

I don't know about some of these LE agencies. They seem to pull money out of their hats. Maybe it's only in LA California. Last fiscal year they were talking budget deficit.

 

Three previously-owned Eurocopter AS 332L1 Super Puma helicopters have been acquired by Los Angeles County for $31 million to staff the sheriff’s department’s Aero Bureau. The total acquisition, including training and parts, was $47 million, Los Angeles County Sheriff’s spokeswoman Nicole Nishida said.

 

 

By KPCC Wire Services | Apr 18, 2011

 

Despite a $220.9 million budget deficit heading into the coming fiscal year, Los Angeles County officials said today they will be able to close the gap without resorting to layoffs or requiring workers to take unpaid furlough days.

 

County Chief Executive Officer Williams Fujioka said his proposed $23.3 billion budget for the 2011-12 fiscal year includes $35.7 million in spending cuts, use of one-time funding and the elimination of 257 vacant positions to help eliminate the shortfall.

Edited October 13, 2012 by iChris

[nightsta1ker]

It clearly displays the complete lack of understanding for what LE air units do.

 

I guess so.

[nightsta1ker]

UAV/UAS have been in constant use in the US for nearly fifteen years.

 

Surprise, surprise.

 

Am I missing something?

[Flying Pig]

I would hardly cite LASO as a standard when talking about Air Unit funding capabilities. In addition to that, you need to look at the missions they are performing with them Like I said, we are a long way from people boarding a UAV Super Puma. Personally, I think it was a ridiculous purchase. Funny that air units all over the country are performing the same missions, but for some reason LASO needs 3 Super Pumas.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Flying Pig

[jimbo2181]

Take LE out of it. How about ENG, power line, ag. Someone smarter than me, when the FAA finally rules on it, will be starting a company with centralized operators flying UAVs throughout the country. ENG ships will no longer each need an operator. Instead you will have one pilot able to fly 4 aircraft that are small enough to fit in the stations garage. Power line and pipeline patrol companies utilizing a centralized operator location which will just send real time video to the power line company right in the comfort of the guys office or home. Farm co-ops will be able to purchase and operate their own small spraying helicopter. In less then 50 years we went from sending a man to the moon to having many thousands of times the computing power in the palms of our hand that can communicate with people anywhere in the world for $99. Not believing that UAVs are going to be a huge impact on our industry in the next 20 years is very short sighted I believe.

 

 

 

[Flying Pig]

I didnt say it wouldnt have an impact on the industry in general. I was referring to LE aviation that was used as an example.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Flying Pig

[iChris]

Not believing that UAVs are going to be a huge impact on our industry in the next 20 years is very short sighted I believe.

 

 

LE thinks that too, There're taking steps forward.

 

Faced with a skeptical public uneasy about the potential impact of drones on personal privacy, three leading law enforcement groups on Friday endorsed industry-backed guidelines limiting the use of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

 

It’s the latest move in the drone sector’s ongoing fight against the popular concern that the aircraft represent a new sort of “Big Brother,” capable of looking through windows and flying undetected above American neighborhoods. Police and other law enforcement agencies, already using UAVs on a limited basis, are pushing back hard against that perception.

 

The Airborne Law Enforcement Association, the FBI Law Enforcement Executive Development Association and the FBI National Academy Associates on Friday joined the International Association of Chiefs of Police in supporting new rules designed to keep police and other agencies from abusing the new powers and capabilities that come with drones, which are now used only by government entities, but will be available for personal and commercial use beginning in 2015.

 

The drone sector’s leading trade group, the Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International (AUVSI), has come out in favor of such privacy protections. Earlier this summer, the organization released its own voluntary “code of conduct” for all who design, test and operate unmanned vehicles.

 

“Unmanned aircraft help law enforcement agencies with missions, such as search and rescue, crime-scene photography and other dangerous or difficult tasks, often at a lower cost than manned aircraft,” AUVSI President and CEO Michael Toscano said in a statement.

 

Police groups urge limit on drones - Washington Times

Edited October 13, 2012 by iChris

[Pohi]

One way you could look at the UAV situation is that the can see things but not actually land and do anything to what they are looking at.

 

Kind of like airplanes. When airplanes start getting consistently replaced by UAV in the civilian sector (in jobs that actually might conflict with anything I do), then I'll worry.

 

We were supposed to have flying cars by now also android housemaids armed with lazer pistols.

 

Edit: oh crap. Looks like all that technology is here.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116306/Skys-limit-Worlds-flying-car-market-800-000.html

 

Sky's the limit: World's first flying car on the market at £800,000 (and it's been in the air since 1946)

By EMMA REYNOLDS

PUBLISHED: 06:36 EST, 17 March 2012 | UPDATED: 07:27 EST, 17 March 2012

Comments (15)

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If waiting in traffic jams leaves you ready to explode, the solution is finally here.

 

Drivers can switch from the road to the air in minutes at the wheel of the world's first flying car - which is on the market at a sky-high price of £800,000.

 

The two-seat automobile can reach speeds of 60mph on land and up to 110mph at 12,000 feet, despite being more than 60 years old.

 

http://robonaut.jsc.nasa.gov/default.asp

 

Robonaut 2 is one step closer to earning its keep on the International Space Station.

R2 got its first taste of real work on Wednesday. The crew and ground team had completed all its initial checkouts, and Tuesday installed heat sinks in both of the robot’s forearms to allow it to better dissipate heat and work for longer periods of time.

The first humanoid robot in space was sent to the space station with the intention of eventually taking over tasks too dangerous or mundane for astronauts, and the first such task identified for it was monitoring air velocity. Astronauts onboard the space station generally have to measure the air flow in front of vents inside the station to ensure that none of the ventilation ductwork gets clogged or blocked. The task involves holding a gauge in front of vents in five different locations on the station and taking several measurements of the air flow every 90 days or so.

It’s not exactly a job that requires a rocket scientist – or astronaut – to accomplish, but there are a few things that make it difficult. For one, the gauge has to be held very steady – a challenge for a human being bobbing up and down in microgravity. And the samples can be misleading if there’s another source of air flow in the area – such as a human being’s breath.

Holding still and not breathing happen to be two areas that R2 excels in, so in some ways the robot is a natural choice for the work. Which is why Commander Dan Burbank handed the tools over to the robot (after powering it up and letting the ground controllers command it into position) on Wednesday to let it give the task a try.

The robot successfully gave the team watching from the ground two good samples taken in front of a ventilation diffuser in the Destiny Laboratory. It wasn’t able to work through the samples as quickly as an astronaut could, and without legs (which are in development on the ground) it could only take samples in one area, rather than all five. But back in Mission Control, the effort was definitely counted as a success.

“I was pretty impressed with the robot’s ability,” said Mari Forrestel, the Environmental and Thermal Operating Systems flight controller analyzing the data R2 sent down. “I think we have some tweaking to do, some fine tuning, but we are definitely looking forward to the robot helping us.”

Ron Diftler, the Robonaut 2 project manager, agreed. “We’re definitely on the right path,” he said. “Robonaut 2 had a chance to use its first tool today. This experiment is the first step in the robot relieving the crew of every dull task and, in time, giving the crew more time for science and exploration.”

 

 

http://www.slashgear.com/geek-creates-diy-pulse-laser-pistol-that-can-burn-plastic-and-melt-foam-09138785/

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2012 by Pohi

[jimbo2181]

I wasn't pointing a finger at you pig. In earlier posts others have balked at the idea of UAVs impacting our industry. All in all I just thought the videos were very cool and the thought of a swarm of UAVs gave me the chills.

[avbug]

Am I missing something?

 

Apparently so.

[nightsta1ker]

 

 

Apparently so.

 

I haven't seen any. At least none not operated by Uncle Sam. Where are the UAVs that have been operating in US airspace for the last 15 years?

[avbug]

I haven't seen any.

 

I surely have.

 

At least none not operated by Uncle Sam.

 

Wrong.

 

It's like all things, however: if you should know, you would know.

[iChris]

I haven't seen any. At least none not operated by Uncle Sam. Where are the UAVs that have been operating in US airspace for the last 15 years?

 

 

 

Uncle Sam got that first foot in the door. The door is fully open for personal and commercial use beginning in 2015.

 

It’s a thin line in the world of technology… Uncle Sam = government contractor (i.e. private company that produces goods or services under contract for the government.

 

DoD Current and Future U.S. Drone Activities Map

 

If you are aware of other drone activities in the U.S. not listed, please let us know.

Edited October 14, 2012 by iChris

[avbug]

DoD Current and Future U.S. Drone Activities Map

 

Lots of places not included on that map.

[Flying Pig]

CBP has been using Predators for a number of years now I believe. As far as the "UAVs" in LE, LE agencies all over the country have been using little RC helicopters with small cameras on them for at least the 15years Ive been a cop. All of this talk about UAV's, Permits, Legislation is all relatively new and deals with UAV aircraft using the National Airspace System. I remember at leaast 10 yrs ago watching a cop with his personal RC helicopter and a small camera flying it over a weed grow to see is anyone was in it. Heck...... My brother built one in his room. That stuff isnt new.

[avbug]

If you are aware of other drone activities in the U.S. not listed, please let us know.

 

I'm aware of a lot of other activity not on that map, however, as previously stated, if you should know you would know.

 

If you don't know, you probably shouldn't.

 

They're not "drones." Calling them "drones" immediately lables one as unknowing; they're UCAV's, UAV's, and UAS. "Drones" is a mindless name used by the media and parroted by those who get their information off CNN.

 

They're far more than "drones," and they've been present for a long time now, in far more places than many realize.

[herceng]

Defensiveness aside...

UAV's are here to stay, and as soon as the FAA figures out how to integrate them into the greater airspace system, they will become increasingly more common in everyday life. There are all sorts of privacy issues, standards of operations, etc. that will take far longer to figure out, but they will predictably become part of our everyday life.

 

Just to illustrate, the USAF is now training and sending more UAV pilots into service than traditional pilots. True statement. Are they immediately making traditional pilots/aircraft obsolete, of course not, but it's foolish to think that this technology is not going to change every aspect of aviation in some way. Obviously they are very limited in their capabilities, but what they do, they do very well.

 

Many LE Agencies that have never had any kind of air asset might soon have a limited eye in the sky capability. Some other large agencies will add UAV's to do routine surveillance, etc. and reduce the number of helo flight hours. Each place will likely do things differently, but don't fool yourself, this is just getting started.

[avbug]

Just to illustrate, the USAF is now training and sending more UAV pilots into service than traditional pilots. True statement.

 

Not a true statement. it was bantied around in 2009 quite a bit, but none of the billets I've seen for UPT graduates or pilot slots have reflected such figures. Far from it, in fact.

 

In 2009 a large increase was made to the number of UAV operators, which included staffing, but the USAF is still not creating more UAV "pilots" than pilots of manned aircraft. It's just not happening.

 

Having spent a lot of time operating in close proximity to large numbers of UAV traffic, however, I have a very dim view of most of the unmanned programs, especially with regard to safety for other air traffic.