Seat Cushions/Inserts/Lumbar Supports?

Jorry Pirot · April 19, 2014

Just curious as to what guys are using and having success with out there? Specifically for 60's, but I'm open to all inputs and experiences. I've finally had enough of hobbling around with lower back pain after any 4+ hour flight. It seems to stem primarily from the complete lack of lumbar support, not the token bottom seat cushion. That being said, I can't imagine improving the latter would hurt either. So far I've seen everything from pillows stuffed behind, old person velcro lumbar supports, nothing on the back w/ armor, seat backs/bottoms, all the way to full custom seats. Price really isn't an object, but I don't see the need to drop a few hundred if some generic product ordered off Amazon does the trick.

SBuzzkill · April 20, 2014

In the Kiowa we had half seatbacks that we used during deployment. They were awesome and made a huge difference. Maybe there is something similar for the Blackhawk?

Velocity173 · April 20, 2014

Technically additional seat cushions are not allowed in the aircraft. The seats are certified to be crashworthy based on the manufactures installed cushion. We had a letter on it in the reading file at Lowe because IPs were complaining of the hard seats. Still didn't keep some the old dudes at Lowe from bringing their own cushions out there.

If your seat cushions are getting that bad your supply guy should order some new ones. We had a bunch of the newer Oregon Aero versions and they made a world of difference.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Velocity173

Gomer Pylot · April 21, 2014

I use one of these. It's cheap enough, and it works for me. A side benefit is that it's cooler, since it allows air to get behind my back. Another thing that I've found helps is to elevate the front of the seat. You can use a wedge or whatever underneath to get it up a little. It doesn't take a lot, but even a little helps. Helicopter seats never have enough thigh support, and the angle is always poor. I know the Feds don't like any alterations, but I say f#&k them. I'm the one who has to sit in the seat, and I'm willing to accept the consequences of my alterations. They're completely clueless, on this and most other things concerning aviation.

SBuzzkill · April 21, 2014

If your seat cushions are getting that bad your supply guy should order some new ones. We had a bunch of the newer Oregon Aero versions and they made a world of difference.

Man, you got out in a different Army. Supply guys these days don't have the money to order paper and staples let alone Oregon Aero seat cushions.

Anyways, depending on who's watching you can order yourself some of your own seat cushions and use those in the aircraft. It's not legal according to regs and whatnot but you can usually get away with it. We had a couple people using the "puss pads" and they said they were awesome.

There were guys doubling up on seat cushions too which wasn't any better...

Joe_P148 · April 21, 2014

You gotta try a couple different things and see what works for you.

First I'd try a lumbar pillow.

Check your posture when your flying, I know it sounds dumb but your seat position may need adjustment from what you are used to. The 60 has a near 90 degree bend from bottom to back there is little room for the pilots back to bend into "lordosis" therefore people slouch forward on the controls increasing the pressure on the discs. Try lowering your seat down and forward. Sounds crazy, but it may help.

Hotdogs · April 21, 2014

If you don't already try working out your core and abs more - I've seen studies from Navy medicine that the effects of the helo hunch can worsen if your body isn't balanced. I try to check my posture on longer flights but it's a constant battle. Wearing front SAPIs and flak laden flight gear in country doesn't help either.

hoosier · April 21, 2014

"Present non contributing factor" at worst. Find what long haul truckers use. It works for them and I'm pretty sure they don't work abs on 16 hr runs.

Velocity173 · April 21, 2014

Man, you got out in a different Army. Supply guys these days don't have the money to order paper and staples let alone Oregon Aero seat cushions.

Anyways, depending on who's watching you can order yourself some of your own seat cushions and use those in the aircraft. It's not legal according to regs and whatnot but you can usually get away with it. We had a couple people using the "puss pads" and they said they were awesome.

There were guys doubling up on seat cushions too which wasn't any better...

Heck ya. We ordered them while we were down range. I was pretty good as far as back pain went. I could go 4-5 hrs with full vest and plate before it started to hurt. When that happened I'd move the seat periodically from full up to full down. Works well.

Rucker A models were really the worst. It was like sitting on a brick. Our complaint was how could added padding affect the crashworthiness of the seat. The letter stated that with added cushion, your body will develope a greater inertia during the stroke in the event of a crash. As if an additional 2 inches of foam would be the difference between life or death. A few guys still had "puss pads." 2-3 hr flights at Rucker weren't so bad. A stop at Andalusia for ribs or Florala for BBQ gave my back a good rest anyway.

We had similar letters from Redstone on painting helmets and unauthorized items in our checklists. Everything, whether it's on the aircraft or on your body is certified a certain way. Modify it and now you need an AWR. Crazy.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Velocity173

akscott60 · April 21, 2014

Just thinking of flying in the Kiowa again in my full battle rattle makes my back hurt. And my neck hurt. And my legs go numb....

Boo

SBuzzkill · April 21, 2014

7 hours stopping only in the FARP really sucks. My ass has never been so sore! Legs definitely do get numb too. I remember lots of shifting in my seat and sitting crooked, which is probably 10x worse in a crash than just using a damn pad.

Edited April 21, 2014 by SBuzzkill

Hotdogs · April 21, 2014

"Present non contributing factor" at worst. Find what long haul truckers use. It works for them and I'm pretty sure they don't work abs on 16 hr runs.

What makes you think Long haul truckers and Helo pilots have the same type, location, and severity of back issues? Genuinely curious.

Jorry Pirot · April 23, 2014

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not an Army dude, although I did get a chuckle out of said memo about "non approved flight equipment." It was on one of our shared drives for some reason, but I've yet to hear anyone care about improvised seat mods in our community. I also seem to recall something about Zeta liners not being approved for you guys at some stage? Is that still the case? If so, that blows, getting one instantly solved any problems I'd ever had with my helmet. As for the funding to get new seat cushions? LOL.

Used a towel as a lumber support earlier this week, just as a test. Seemed to eliminate the lower back soreness and just moved it down to my butt. After asking around the SQ as well, I think I'm going to go with the Oregon Aero cushion.

SBuzzkill · April 24, 2014

That Oregon Aero is money. And I definitely have a Zeta liner those things are awesome! The hush kit and comfort earcups are awesome too.

hoosier · April 24, 2014

Hotdogs their occupation involves sitting and bouncing around in a seated upright position much like a kiowa on a windy day plus their beer gut equates to roughly one sapi plate. It's science. Plus they can't avoid potholes unlike your hard landings(disclaimer: sarcasm)