Buying a high time R22

[fixedwingfornow]

Hi all,

 

So I am a prospective helicopter pilot. I have some fixed wing ratings but want to fly helicopters professionally.

 

The flight school where I rent airplanes has an R22 but they don't teach with it. The owner pretty much just uses it to fly out to his farm. His insurance doesn't let him teach with it. He did however offer to sell it to me. Its about 300 hours out from an overhaul and he offered it to me for $55,000. As far as I can tell from R22 sales online, that's about what they sell for when they are timed out. So I'm thinking I'll buy the helicopter, train in it and then sell it for about what I paid when I'm all done. I have the money, I was planning on spending almost double that to train anyway.

 

What pitfalls can you experienced guys see in this plan... Obviously finding a job will be trickier once I'm done because I won't have my flight school to turn to. Any other drawbacks?

[samrwalker]

Well I can guarantee you won't sell it for what you paid for it unless you buy it at the core value price of needing an overhaul. For every hour you put on it, it will depreciate.

[Low Level Lover]

Not all overhauls are the same. A 4400 hr overhaul I would guess is about 15 K more expensive than a 2200 hr overhaul as you have to replace the tail boom (will also require painting), certain airframes, etc. Also depending on when it was last overhauled, your lucky if you get half your core values back, which you have to pay upfront. Nobody ever tells you that. Then there's the condition of the glass, interior upholstery, airframe repairs etc.

All this is reflected in the core value price. It tends to be the ones in the business of doing overhauls that buy the cores as they know exactly what they're up against. In my experience it seems owners of existing Robinson products rebuild their own as they know what they have. You really need to do your homework.

[Rich1]

Congrats for thinking far enough ahead to get some practical experience and advice prior to pulling the trigger on this purchase. As someone who has actually done exactly what you are thinking about, and am now on my third helicopter I think I can share some relevant info. As long as you have your eyes wide open and have plenty of discretionary cash, your basic premise has SOME merit...however, here are some thoughts to consider. 1) the whole premise HAS to be built upon a very thoughtful and knowledgeable prepurchase inspection. To the best extent possible you want to know what costs you can reasonably expect over the next 300 hrs...and even then expect that there will be some unexpected costs even if the ship has been impeccably maintained...the ship is high time so you just have to plan on it.

 

I can tell you first hand that it only takes a couple of very expensive, unexpected expenses to blow your fiscal plan apart...it can be as simple as an AD on a set of rotor blades at $30K...I had to replace a heater blower motor...it cost $1000 used, blades repainted three time at $1000 per pop....yearly annuals between $1500 and $4000 per. This I can tell you...I bought a ship that had been meticulously maintained, had no major expenses, and over a four year time period, my true cost of hourly operation was almost exactly what a rental rates averages at the local flight school...as noted prior above, just plan on the fact that the hull (depending upon hrs/condition can vary between $25K-40K regardless of condition.

 

Owning and training in your own ship is very cool...but just know that it will cost you at least what a rental cost would be at your local flight school. PS..I bought my first r22 w 600 hrs remaining for $100K...I flew it to overhaul and the hull brought $40K, so you can see I lost $10k per 100 hrs of just depreciation alone..not to mention all of the other costs of insurance $12K per year, hangar, $5K per year in fuel, annuals (noted above)...

 

One additional note on the pre purchase inspection...pay a very competent and respected mechanic to do the inspection for you. Before buying the ship noted above, I looked a a ship with 800 hrs remaining and cost $75K...upon the advice of many owners, I spent the $1500 to have a good prepurchase inspection...needless to say the ship was mechanically a mess and would have cost me at least $40K to get it airworthy....the $1500 investment saved me at least $40K and certainly that would have taken the fun out ownership in a hurry.

 

Eyes wide open and plenty of discretionary cash...my thin nickel...happy to answer any other questions

[Eric Hunt]

The big stopper for most is insurance - an old airframe, a new trainee pilot.

 

Then you will need to worry about getting an instructor - don't go for the cheapest, as he will only have 100 more hours than you do. Get a grizzled old gray fella, he will cost more but might save you the cost of an overspeed inspection, or repairing a badly-judged touchdown auto.

 

And that's another reason to use the school's machine when doing emergencies, there is no fiscal axe over your head when plummeting from the sky.

[HawaiiCFII]

How flexible are you in relocating? Since you have finances your biggest hurtle beyond learning to fly is going to be getting a CFI job and building up time. Some schools only hire their own students and might require you to at least do the CFI portion with them. Others will hire you with your CFI completed but getting these jobs are very very hard to get if you have zero experience.

 

If you find an old grey hair to complete all your training then at that point you might have to move across the country for a job that pays next to nothing. Even if he knows people out there...it's all about who you know. That and your drive to succeed coupled with your personality.

 

Success is not about hours.

[Goldy]

Beta or Beta !!? What year? What options?

[TonarHerocopterPilot]

My question. If you have money to buy a helicopter, why stop doing what you are doing and just fly for fun. A 12k private license and some fun flights will take a while to add up to 55k,

Operating expenses and instructor.

[BowmanAviator]

My question. If you have money to buy a helicopter, why stop doing what you are doing and just fly for fun. A 12k private license and some fun flights will take a while to add up to 55k,

Operating expenses and instructor.

Because he probably has the same problem I did. There are no helicopters to learn in at the home field. So we have to buy one.

[TonarHerocopterPilot]

Then you have to tell your friends you own a Robby 😐

[r22butters]

Then you have to tell your friends you own a Robby

I would give my left nut to tell them that!

[Pohi]

I would give my left nut to tell them that!

You can always tell someone that. Whether or not it's the truth is a whole different matter.

[r22butters]

You can always tell someone that. Whether or not it's the truth is a whole different matter.

Ahhh,...like when I told everyone at my 20yr reunion I was a rich, astronaut, cowboy, f1 driver dating lingerie models. Ha,...awesome!

[TonarHerocopterPilot]

You can always tell someone that. Whether or not it's the truth is a whole different matter.

You might as well say you own AT LEAST a Dauphin if you go that route. You can then still tell them you have a 22. It's like I have a husky riding mower for the big stuff, and a Troy built I don't care about.

[Goldy]

I would give my left nut to tell them that!

Hmmmm, glad I can say that and still keep both of em!