First Lakota class finished... Any questions?

crash · June 2, 2016

Okay, so I was in the first lakota class and we just finished our final checkride yesterday. I figured I would start this as a place for anyone curious on how it actually went or anyone that needs to know how to prepare. I know there are a lot of rumors going around about various parts of the new program.

akscott60 · June 2, 2016

Were you able to set the aircraft down and pick it up yourself?

How did you deal with the Mast Moment sh*t thingie?

Did you get fully qualified in the aircraft?

Did you yank and bank the f**k out of it in BWS?

Did you do any sort of autorotations?

Run on Landings?

Did you mess with single engine failures and related issues?

How was it?

Chief_Yota · June 2, 2016

First check is next week. Rippin the ATM hard, what were some wierd little things you didn't expect? Nailing all the 2s and 3s, and all the big stuff. What was the little(ler) stuff?

Thank ya

crash · June 2, 2016

Were you able to set the aircraft down and pick it up yourself?

How did you deal with the Mast Moment sh*t thingie?

Did you get fully qualified in the aircraft?

Did you yank and bank the f*ck out of it in BWS?

Did you do any sort of autorotations?

Run on Landings?

Did you mess with single engine failures and related issues?

How was it?

We were allowed and required to do all of the pick up and set downs after about the first 5 hours. Some of the newer IPs to the 72 were hesitant to lets us at Cairns, however that was mostly the guest IPs.

Mast moment was not really any issue for us. I think it was only an issue for people that had prior helicopter experience. As we did not have experience with anything other than a rigid rotor system we never really had a problem with it. It definitely made the IPs uncomfortable, especially doing slopes. I think the issue was exaggerated as during our entire class we did not have a single mast moment limit exceeded. I hear they have them frequently in the IP course however.

Active duty will be fully qualified on the 72, however we will not receive the identifier until after we complete one tour in our advanced aircraft. So at this point we are prohibited from taking a first assignment in a lakota. The NG students will be awarded the 153L mos immediately though.

Bws was very subdued... the IPs we had just finished their course a few days before we got there, as such they were not confident or comfortable with the aircraft. Honestly I feel between that and our bws being shorted to allow for our nightvision qual, we did not receive a very challenging experience there.

We did autos straight in only and from flight at or above 700' agl terminated with power at a hover.

Run on landings were done to 5 feet agl, they are talking about doing single engine partial power run ons to the ground in future classes.

Single engine failures and single engine flight was a frequent part of training as well as manual throttle operations.

It was a good overall experience. I feel like we got a lot more than the 67s in respect to crew coordination, systems management, and IFR flight. I feel like the course will translate well into our advanced airframe. I do feel like we missed out on a lot of skills and proficiency in aircraft controlability.

crash · June 2, 2016

First check is next week. Rippin the ATM hard, what were some wierd little things you didn't expect? Nailing all the 2s and 3s, and all the big stuff. What was the little(ler) stuff?

Thank ya

Know the ATM really well! Know the evaluation sequence in the CMP really well and all of the topics listed there. The biggest suggestion I have is to ask the check pilot how he expects each maneuver to be done. As its new, there are a lot of varied techniques on how to execute each maneuver. My stick buddy, although flying the task IAW the ATM, did not slow down early enough on the final for our anti torque and got hammered for it.

akscott60 · June 2, 2016

Wait, there is manual throttle in the Lakota? What kind of sorcery is this?

crash · June 2, 2016

Each engine has a twist grip throttle control on the collective that you manually operate for engine over/underspeeds

akscott60 · June 2, 2016

Crazy. Well, all the other advanced aircraft have PCL/ECL for that.

Did you get to solo?

crash · June 2, 2016

It's also how they simulate an engine failure. They reduce one engine to idle.

crash · June 2, 2016

Yeah, the twists grips are a pain. A pcl would have been a lot easier to manage.

No solo at this point. They are pushing hard to get future classes to be able to though.

akscott60 · June 2, 2016

I didnt get to solo either. The Army cannot ever stick with a plan.

Anyway.

As for systems, well, Im glad you think you got a good training curriculum. Just know that every aircraft is different. Different makers, different language, different way of doing things.

Just dont think Airbus knows how to build a helicopter (I say that in Jest)

Edited June 2, 2016 by akscott60

crash · June 2, 2016

Well, I don't know if it was a good curriculum. I definitely think it is a better exposure than the 67s get.

akscott60 · June 2, 2016

I love the little 67. We beat the sh*t out of them, and they come back for seconds.

I would like to fly a Lakota. But you have no experience with full down autos, run ons, etc. That does you a disservice, period.

Im glad you had a good time. Enjoy advanced airframe, and I hope you choose CH47Fs.

Creep0321 · June 2, 2016

I've got ARWIS checkride next week. Any advice? Things to focus on?

Lindsey · June 2, 2016

The hell is ARWIS?

akscott60 · June 2, 2016

All these new terms. Why did the Army allow Airbus to dictate terminology?

crash · June 2, 2016

I love the little 67. We beat the sh*t out of them, and they come back for seconds.

I would like to fly a Lakota. But you have no experience with full down autos, run ons, etc. That does you a disservice, period.

Im glad you had a good time. Enjoy advanced airframe, and I hope you choose CH47Fs.

I would love to get a chance to fly one or a 58, I doubt that would ever happen though. I agree it was a disservice that the first time we ever do a full touch down auto will be in an actual emergency. I will be very curious to see if they will make any big changes in regards to that in future classes. I will definitely select 47s if there is one in our selection, from what the army has been telling us though, it is highly unlikely there will be one.

crash · June 2, 2016

Creep:
The ARWIS check ride was the easiest we took as it was done internally with the IPs checking the students. If you are good on the radios and systems you should do fine. Oral knowledge was a pretty small part, if you did well in academics you shouldn't have an issue. Definitely don't be afraid to use all of the upper modes! Be ready to quickly change your garmin though. The only people that didn't do well on it were the ones that ATC screwed with and couldn't adjust their nav quick enough. Be sure to check everything the IP does too, they will screw up your garmin, with your nav engaged and you wont figure it out until its too late. Most of them still aren't very good with the systems.

crash · June 2, 2016

The hell is ARWIS?

All these new terms. Why did the Army allow Airbus to dictate terminology?

So, since we do not have a P1 and P2 checkride and we keep our IPs (in theory) from day one all the way through to bws, the army decided to change the names of pretty much everything for us. There is no longer primary or basic instruments and things like that. We have BRWS (basic rotary wing skills) which goes from day one through basic instruments, then ARWS (advanced rotary wing skill), then BTN (basic tactical nav) and then what ever they are calling BWS now and our night vision qual... No idea, I just know this is an army thing not an Airbus thing.

Creep0321 · June 2, 2016

Thanks, having an IP that hasn't flown instruments in 18 years, was interesting. So far so good, so I feel like I will do ok.

The last 2 phases I think they renamed, "day warrior skills" and "night warrior skills".

Creep0321 · June 2, 2016

I would love to get a chance to fly one or a 58, I doubt that would ever happen though. I agree it was a disservice that the first time we ever do a full touch down auto will be in an actual emergency. I will be very curious to see if they will make any big changes in regards to that in future classes. I will definitely select 47s if there is one in our selection, from what the army has been telling us though, it is highly unlikely there will be one.

From looking over the shoulder of one of the Cadre at B Co. There are no 47s, or C-12s for your selection. I guess this is something they typically don't know ahead of time, but they already have spots reserved for your class in the 60M course at the end of July, and 64D and 64E courses shortly after that. The 47 SMO has said starting in July they will begin taking people from the Lakota course, which is my selection so my fingers are crossed.

crash · June 2, 2016

From looking over the shoulder of one of the Cadre at B Co. There are no 47s, or C-12s for your selection. I guess this is something they typically don't know ahead of time, but they already have spots reserved for your class in the 60M course at the end of July, and 64D and 64E courses shortly after that. The 47 SMO has said starting in July they will begin taking people from the Lakota course, which is my selection so my fingers are crossed.

That is almost identical to what the dacs and dotd have been telling us recently. I think the third Lakota class is going to have a great selection. They select a few days before the new fiscal year.

akscott60 · June 2, 2016

So since you are getting NVG qualified and Lakota qualified before selection, are you going to get your wings before Advanced airframe?

The old legacy courses were like that, and it seems like the idea of FSXXI is dying off.

crash · June 2, 2016

So the national guard that are slotted for Lakotas will. Active duty, however; will have a statement saying we are qualified, but not the actual identifier until later. We won't be able to wear out wings until after the advanced course. I don't think they will change that until after the 67 is completely gone.