How likely is it that I'll get a job with a commercial license?

[night]

I'm planning on entering the agriculture field as an aerial applicator. I'm currently working on a degree in agriculture and I'm working on my commercial license. I'm also working with professors at my university to get an pesticide certification. I'm just worried it's difficult to get a job with just a commercial rating since it seems like most jobs require a CFI rating with 2000 hours.

[r22butters]

Success depends on how badly you want to be a career pilot.

 

Me I never wanted it badly enough to work AG ground crew mixing chemicals for a couple years first, but if I had, I was always told that the opportunities are out there.

[avbug]

It's rare that anyone cares if an ag pilot has a flight instructor certificate. Or a degree.

[helonorth]

If you have no spraying experience, you will start at the same place as the 10,000 hour dual ATP with no spraying experience: on the truck. 2,000 hour CFI's are probably not going to go the spraying route or they already would have. Spraying is hard work and certainly no short cut. Expect 2 years on the truck before you start flying.

Edited November 12, 2016 by helonorth

[Ares_83x]

I'm planning on entering the agriculture field as an aerial applicator. I'm currently working on a degree in agriculture and I'm working on my commercial license. I'm also working with professors at my university to get an pesticide certification. I'm just worried it's difficult to get a job with just a commercial rating since it seems like most jobs require a CFI rating with 2000 hours.

 

I'd like to break down your question and ask 3 more specific question that might be useful:

 

1) What flight experience minimums do Ag companies either require or desire?

2) How much ground experience is typically required to transition to the cockpit?

3) Will more hours of flight experience make the transition from ground to cockpit faster?

[Spike]

Sorry to say, expecting to get a helicopter pilot job with just a commercial certificate is as close to impossible as you can get… The only thing worse is not having a certificate at all…. Plus, most jobs don’t require a CFI. That is, building time as a CFI to the 2000 hour required type-of jobs is the easiest, most common, most beneficial way of doing it. And, if your interest in the Ag sector is simply to avoid the CFI route, know this; the road to an Ag job is just as long and difficult as any other helicopter job and that includes that of a CFI….. No short cuts in this business. However, if your only desire to fly in the Ag sector, what does it matter? Just know, the competition for the truck spot may include pilots with more PIC experience and in the end, Helicopter Aerial Applicators are Helicopter companies….

Edited November 12, 2016 by Spike

[helonorth]

Ag operators typically do not care if you have much time. The flying is not comparable to anything else. They want to bring someone on that they feel they can train. A pilot with 2,000 hours generally is not going to start all over driving a truck. If you have a bunch of time and ag is where you want to go, you would have already been there. It's the same way with some larger companies that do utility work. The experienced guys already have jobs. If they need pilots, they have to make them.

 

As for question 2, my experience was that the operator wanted 4 years out of me. Drive the first season, drive and fly some the next season. Fly the third season. Fly the 4th season so he could make the money back he put into me.

 

There is no competition for ag driving jobs. I was the only one driving that was a pilot. It's long days, it's hot, it's boring and it pays crap. Operators are always looking for drivers. But if ag is something you want to do, it's there for the asking. But you're going to work your ass off to earn a seat. It probably pays more than anything else in the industry. A lot more. But to make the big bucks, you will be living in a camper for 10 months out of the year.

[helonorth]

BTW, I was hired with 160 hours and a commercial. The same way all the rest of the pilots there started. None of them had ever done anything else.

[Spike]

I got hired with 1200 hours which about 300 was turbine… No, it didn’t matter… I wrenched and ground crewed as the boss hired his cronies, or his cronies’ buddies or family members or his cronies buddies family members…… Saw the writing on the wall and for 8 bucks an hour, I’z outathere….

 

My fault though…. I walked in off the street and they hired me on the spot. I was desperate for a job (obviously) and didn’t feel like I could ask for any stipulations or timeframes…. They did let me fly rides at the local fair..….. After I left, the boss was thrown in jail…..

Edited November 12, 2016 by Spike

[Ares_83x]

I got hired with 1200 hours which about 300 was turbine… No, it didn’t matter… I wrenched and ground crewed as the boss hired his cronies, or his cronies’ buddies or family members or his cronies buddies family members…… Saw the writing on the wall and for 8 bucks an hour, I’z outathere….

 

My fault though…. I walked in off the street and they hired me on the spot. I was desperate for a job (obviously) and didn’t feel like I could ask for any stipulations or timeframes…. They did let me fly rides at the local fair..….. After I left, the boss was thrown in jail…..

Wow that sucks. I assume, given the fact that the boss ended up in jail and the hiring practices you described, this specific operation is the exception rather than the rule? Makes me very apprehensive considering Ag work if that could be a likely outcome.

[helonorth]

Wow that sucks. I assume, given the fact that the boss ended up in jail and the hiring practices you described, this specific operation is the exception rather than the rule? Makes me very apprehensive considering Ag work if that could be a likely outcome.

 

Yes, most owners of ag operations only hire their relatives and have done time in jail.

[avbug]

My first job after high school was flying ag, and I continue doing ag in various capacities.

 

Most ag operators are looking for experienced pilots. That is, pilots with ag experience, who are insurable. No-time pilots only get hired when no one is available and the operator is desperate, or when the operator pays peanuts and settles for cheap know-nothing no-timers.

 

Farmers don't tend to trust new or low-time pilots, especially with herbicide work, especially on crops where poor application practices and skips will be painfully obvious and economically damaging (wheat, cotton, etc).

 

The other end of the spectrum is firefighting, which is also ag aviation in a different vein. That does not tend to go to inexperienced pilots at all.

[helonorth]

 

Most ag operators are looking for experienced pilots. That is, pilots with ag experience, who are insurable. No-time pilots only get hired when no one is available and the operator is desperate, or when the operator pays peanuts and settles for cheap know-nothing no-timers.

 

 

 

No, all operators are looking for experienced pilots. So what position was the guy in when he hired a know-nothing, no timer avbug?

Edited November 13, 2016 by helonorth

[r22butters]

No, all operators are looking for experienced pilots. So what position was the guy in when he hired a know-nothing, no timer avbug?

Don't tell me you didn't know! The Bug was a full time CFII in junior high, so when high school came around he was already flying tours in the ditch (while fighting fires in a 747 on weekends).

 

By the time high school ended he had 5000 hours!

[Wally]

Don't tell me you didn't know! The Bug was a full time CFII in junior high, so when high school came around he was already flying tours in the ditch (while fighting fires in a 747 on weekends).

 

By the time high school ended he had 5000 hours!

You got 5000 hours? No? Wanna bet that "Avbug" doesn't have more time buckling a seat belt than your total time?

[helonorth]

I can't tell who the insult is direct at, but I'm guessing it's butters.

[avbug]

You got 5000 hours? No? Wanna bet that "Avbug" doesn't have more time buckling a seat belt than your total time?

 

 

Pretty good bet. Probably more time bucking rivets, too.

 

I don't see their posts, as they're on the ignore list (rightfully so). As you quoted butters, though, I never fought fire in the 747. I flew it internationally as first officer, and captain, with the last few years in that airplane almost exclusively operating in and out of Afghanistan (I was in the Classic, which at that point was relegated to the sandbox vortex).

 

I did spend a couple of years flying the grand canyon, but that was several years after high school. I met my first wife doing that.

 

I flew for five years commercially before seeking an instrument rating, and the CFII wasn't until much later.

 

I finished high school with a private pilot certificate. My first job after high school was as an ag pilot in a Pawnee and Cessna AgTruck, in Kansas.

 

Apparently this is of great interest to a select few, who seem to spend their time thinking about, and discussing nothing else. Very sad.

Edited November 14, 2016 by avbug

[r22butters]

Man, where's Pokey when you need him!

[helonorth]

avbug should probably add "profession internet troll" to his resume. He could list it right after his 747 job:

 

"in the Classic, which at that point was relegated to the sandbox vortex)."

 

Very impressive!

[Guest pokey]

not sure if this can be proven it was our fearless bug at the controls, but? one thing for certain, his mom's parachute went missing that day and she was out of quarters. :

(oh yes & butters? you can count on me) Edited November 14, 2016 by pokey

[r22butters]

You got 5000 hours? No? Wanna bet that "Avbug" doesn't have more time buckling a seat belt than your total time?

 

Well what do ya know, these things do have seat belts!

[Guest pokey]

that looks really fun ! but how about this one? much cheaper too, i bet. & no hydraulic fluid to make a mess once it springs a leek. btw? this was (you know who's official 747 fire fighting simulator)

 

MOM ! put another quarter in, dad lit the cat on fire again with the bbq grill.

 

http://www.coinopexpress.com/products/machines/kiddie_rides/Jumbo_Jet_Kiddie_Ride_5678.html

 

Edited November 14, 2016 by pokey

[Guest pokey]

 

 

. Probably more time bucking rivets, too.

 

in the 747. Very sad.

 

he's a bucking riveter, but yet fails to acknowledge the mechanics creed?

 

very sad indeed

[r22butters]

On a serious note:

 

Night, as someone who is not a CFI myself,...I really hope you make it!