Best tour operator to build time with?

[airscooter]

Sorry in advance for the lengthy post.

I have lurked on these forums for a few months and am hoping some of you guys could help clear things up for me and maybe point me in the right direction. I have read a few threads on here touching on the subject but none really gave me what I was looking for I suppose.

 

Quick background: After building my time as a CFI/CFII I became a 135 charter pilot for the same company. Shortly after that I ended up getting hired flying power line inspections and aerial broadcasting for sports events. The problem is the flying is so spaced apart that it is both hard to earn a living and build my time, but it was the only turbine job at the time near my home and it basically fell into my lap. I have 1400 PIC and 500 turbine. My end goal is to fly HEMS or some sort of mountain rescue way down the road.

Hiring season for the Canyon operators and Alaska is soon approaching and I really would like to get on with one of them to build my time and maybe put away some much needed cash.

 

From what I'm told, most only require 1000 PIC and say no turbine time required. I've even heard they prefer you don't have any at all?

So I'm hoping with a decent resume of charter experience and some tour experience may help me land a job, but who should I focus more towards? Papillon, Maverick, Sundance, Sunshine, Temsco, Etc.

 

Things I've heard through the grapevine from students I've trained coming back for their ATP:

-you fly your butt off at papillon.

-you don't fly too much or get paid much at Temsco but they give good training and the flying itself is amazing.

-Maverick hires people with previous mountain experience and you have to look like a clean cut ken doll...no joke thats what the guy kept telling me haha

 

I of course am planning on applying to all of them, but I only have enough money to fly out and visit maybe 2 places and do the whole in person meet and greet. Can anyone here comment on who they'd recommend? Maintenance practices, overall management, how they treat the pilots, safety, all that will play a roll too.

 

I would love the mountains in AK but I hear there are a lot of down weather days and you don't end up flying that much. Regardless I'd take a job with any at this point but I just figured I'd ask you pros what you thought!

 

[Little Bird]

Well, definitely apply for all. Gotta be in it to win it. You say you only have enough cash to fly to 2 places, well, Vegas and SE Ak are two places! You could always rent a car and drive to the South Rim and cover the bases there.

For SE Ak, I'd plan to go in early Jan. Go to Ketchikan for TEMSCO and Juneau for Coastal and Northstar. Don't bother with Era as they hire out of La. I'd try get some sort of flexi ticket allowing you flexible date travel if needed, in case of wx or if whoever you're meeting is unavailable.

For Vegas, I'd probably allow a week out there. Again in case people are busy.

I always wanted to work for one of the big operators in Vegas but I didn't get hired with them, I ended up with a smaller operator. And admittedly while being a bit nervous as I couldn't find any information about them, it turned out to be an excellent year, and I think I actually did better there than if I'd gone to one of the bigger outfits. At the end of the day, we were trained to 135 standard, we got paid decently and I never worried about mx or wx pressure. I built valuable hours, made connections and moved on.

Don't worry about down days for wx in Ak. The flying you'll do there is incredible and will make you a vastly improved pilot.

I nearly forgot, if you know anyone, anyone at all with connections at those companies, call/email/text/WhatsApp/snapchat them ASAP and work that connection, because perhaps now more than ever, this personal relationship will get you that job.

Good luck...

[Pohi]

As far as Vegas goes, from my friends that worked there, Maverick was the coveted place to be. A few years ago it was significantly more money and no TOPS.

 

It was not uncommon for people to start at other operators and then move over there when they had some turbine time (300?).

[airscooter]

Thanks for the replies guys. I was told that maverick generally only hires people with previous canyon time? I feel like my pic and turbine time are higher than your average pilot just finishing up a gig as a CFI but also with the way the industry is there are a lot of 1500ish pilots with turbine still looking for a steady flying job so previous canyon time would be high on mavericks list I would figure. Pay isn't my top concern, although I do think we deserve more for what we do but that's covered on other threads.

I want to hit both vegas and AK in Janurary, just bought myself a nice tailored suit and everything too!

Can anyone comment on expected pay/benefits for TEMSCO and other operators? All my searches come up with pre-2010 info. I'm leaning more towards temsco as far as the overall flying experience but I also am hoping they up some hours.

Any rough estimates on what you can except companies to average? Flight time isn't everything I know but I like to stay busy

[r22butters]

As far as Vegas goes, from my friends that worked there, Maverick was the coveted place to be. A few years ago it was significantly more money and no TOPS.

 

I've never seen an ad from Maverick below 1200, so what else is undesirable about TOPS?

 

,...other than being the arch-enemy of low-timers!

[airscooter]

Please excuse my ignorance...tried googling before I asked on here in fear of asking something that I possibly should be expected to already know...what is TOPS. Never had heard that before

[r22butters]

http://www.topssafety.org/#1443033327013-73d5414a-69aa

 

I've been told they are why many operators won't hire pilots below 1000hrs.

[airscooter]

interesting thanks for the link! Basically a much stricter 135 program. Seems like there are more equipment requirements for the aircraft rather than pilot requirements? More checkrides and don't yank and bank it I can manage that I think

[Pohi]

I've never seen an ad from Maverick below 1200, so what else is undesirable about TOPS?

 

,...other than being the arch-enemy of low-timers!

Mostly the lack of crankin' and bankin' :-)

 

Its not that tops is undesirable, its just that I would rather...given the choice... be able to play around a little bit more when it would help increase the tips

[Azhigher]

1. If you're going to vegas hit Papillon, Sundance, and Maverick.

2. Maverick is the best operator in vegas. Best maintenance, best pay, best training.

3. You can plan to do 500-800+ hours a year at any of the above named Vegas operators.

4. TOPS is a joke. Pap and Sundance are in it so they have something positive to say when asked about their below average safety records.

[HawaiiCFII]

At Temsco you will get somewhere around 300 hours in a season flying tours.

[Little Bird]

Don't forget 5Star and Serenity in Boulder City.

You don't need Canyon time to get into Maverick. They want prior turbine time, +300 hours, plus a little higher total time. They are the best outfit in Vegas and many drivers try and switch after they've made the mins.

[SBuzzkill]

Mostly the lack of crankin' and bankin' :-)

 

Its not that tops is undesirable, its just that I would rather...given the choice... be able to play around a little bit more when it would help increase the tips

 

Limited to 30 degrees bank and 10 degrees pitch attitudes? That's pretty conservative...

Edited November 27, 2016 by SBuzzkill

[Spike]

Sorry in advance for the lengthy post.

 

My end goal is to fly HEMS or some sort of mountain rescue way down the road.

 

First of all, never start a communication with an apology…

Secondly, understand what HAA (formally known as EMS) operators require.

Thirdly, how many mountain rescue operators exist?

 

Forest through the trees…….

Edited November 28, 2016 by Spike

[Guest pokey]

 

First of all, never start a communication with an apology…

.

 

why not?

[airscooter]

 

First of all, never start a communication with an apology…

Secondly, understand what HAA (formally known as EMS) operators require.

Thirdly, how many mountain rescue operators exist?

 

Forest through the trees…….

 

I don't understand your point? It clearly states what is required on every job listing unless you mean something different. I stated that just for some background on where I'd like my career path to go eventually incase anyone had recommendations or insight.

 

I have no idea how many other than the handful that google shows, but maybe you can provide me more information on the subject.

[takefootoff]

Sounds like avbug stole Spike's login information.

[r22butters]

Sorry, but if you want to fly HEMS then the JH Forum is the place to be, as it seems that's where they all hang out,...and probably why they started calling themselves HAA!

[airscooter]

Sorry, but if you want to fly HEMS then the JH Forum is the place to be, as it seems that's where they all hang out,...and probably why they started calling themselves HAA!

 

 

ew I want to hangout here with the cool kids though!

[Guest pokey]

FaaaaaaaaaaRRRRRRRRRRmmmmmmmmm livin' is the place for me.... (oh wait, the 747 stuff didn't start yet)

[Spike]

 

I don't understand your point?

 

 

IMO, what you were asking wasn’t really tracking with your end goal. If HAA is your ultimate goal, you should tailor your path to meet that goal. And, while opinions will vary, especially here at VR, you should consider the hiring requirements of HAA employers. Specifically, night time. Maybe consider what tour operator will provide you with the best opportunity to log a significant number of hours at night. That is, unless you already have the number of night hours HAA employers require.

 

You mention mountain rescue. Do you mean a mountain HAA operator or a public use operator? These are different animals and require a different set of commitments. However, as mentioned above, either one of these mountain operators will want mountain time and not all mountain time requirements are equal. Know what they are and work towards that requirement.

 

In short, your post sounds like you want to be picky and if so, you’re being picky for the wrong reasons. No offense but, if night time is what you’ll need in the future, do you think you’ll get that in Alaska? Conversely, if mountain time is important, would Alaska be a better choice?

 

Pay? Need to look pretty? Fly a little or fly a lot? Training? Will any of these things get you to your ultimate goal?

 

How do I relate? I’d like to fly a medium on fires but I didn’t follow a path that would allow me to do that even after years in the business… So yeah, I can relate simply because I focused on the wrong things...

Edited November 29, 2016 by Spike

[airscooter]

 

 

IMO, what you were asking wasnt really tracking with your end goal. If HAA is your ultimate goal, you should tailor your path to meet that goal. And, while opinions will vary, especially here at VR, you should consider the hiring requirements of HAA employers. Specifically, night time. Maybe consider what tour operator will provide you with the best opportunity to log a significant number of hours at night. That is, unless you already have the number of night hours HAA employers require.

 

You mention mountain rescue. Do you mean a mountain HAA operator or a public use operator? These are different animals and require a different set of commitments. However, as mentioned above, either one of these mountain operators will want mountain time and not all mountain time requirements are equal. Know what they are and work towards that requirement.

 

In short, your post sounds like you want to be picky and if so, youre being picky for the wrong reasons. No offense but, if night time is what youll need in the future, do you think youll get that in Alaska? Conversely, if mountain time is important, would Alaska be a better choice?

 

Pay? Need to look pretty? Fly a little or fly a lot? Training? Will any of these things get you to your ultimate goal?

 

How do I relate? Id like to fly a medium on fires but I didnt follow a path that would allow me to do that even after years in the business So yeah, I can relate simply because I focused on the wrong things...

Now that makes a lot of sense. It's kind of funny, I say I want to do that as my end goal but when you really boil it down I'm not all that sure, or at least the way you put it has made me think differently. I'm only 23 and haven't really experienced all the different sides of the industry. Who's to say I'd even like HAA? I think my plan is right now is just to go fly some helicopters and enjoy it for a few years and then make connections that'll lead me elsewhere. It's kinda like when you ask a 17yr old kid out of highschool what he wants to do, he probably doesn't know. I feel like I'm putting the cart before the horse right now. My main want right now is getting a consistent flying job where I go home at night and gain experience. I think any of the tour companies in the canyon or AK will satisfy that. I will keep you guys posted on how it all goes!

[Wally]

HEMS (Not HAA ha ha ha except to the FAA) is a job for an old pilot, at least 5000 hours PIC and a "wide an experience base as is possible old pilot".

This is not a job for a young pilot, who seem to divide into younger wannabe HEMS drivers and a few, very few really good HEMS pilots. This is not a job to build experience and skill sets in. Averaging 140 hours a year makes it hard to maintain experience, and 2000 hour new-hire could fly 50 years without exceeding a 10,000 hour career total, a pretty low cumulative for a professional pilot.

 

Peer to peer learning is very important to professional pilots. That opportunity is entirely absent in HEMS. You will not see other pilots 'do it' in a new way. They will not critique your technique in real time. When you encounter a challenge, you will sink or swim, live or die on your own, without the opportunity to discuss and analyze with an experienced colleague. The particular challenge may not recur for decade, so the lesson learned in survival will not be reinforced. Recurrent/fomral training is not a substitute, it has entirely different priorities.

 

Instruct to learn the basic job and build time. Then do tours, build time.. After tours, when you're a "journeyman", do some fires, utilities, ex-pat work, or offshore. If you're still interested 10 years later (I wish I had stayed in the Gulf of Mexico for financial reasons), then pick your HEMS base and operator, and enjoy the job. I loved HEMS, but the money... not so much.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Wally

[ElJay]

Does anyone know how many hours the tour guys in Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge, TN are getting a year?

[rollthbns]

To post or not to post. On this topic.