Should I make the move?

[Scyther]

Im pretty sure every job that exists has sucky aspects... Firefighting is an amazing career but there are definitely things about it that are meh. That being said, Id be over the moon if I made it into WOFT. Id have tried years ago had I known it was a thing!

 

Now my major concern is the ASVAB/SIFT. Ive been out of school and away from standardized testing for a long time. My arithmetic reasoning capabilities are weak so Im now looking for a math/science tutor. I already hit the gym five times a week and have some excellent people in mind for LORs. I definitely dont want to be barred just because I didnt prepare for some basic tests!

 

Ill be working on my ATPL either way. Ive flown on airliners since I was little and theres still something magical about it to me. The take-offs and landings, flying in zero visibility through clouds, cruising around the world at 500mph+, its all pretty amazing!

[avbug]

I've also heard an ATPL will pretty much guarantee you get on a track to a career these days, which if accurate is something else to consider.

 

 

The ATP is definitely not a guarantee of anything, but meeting the requirements for ATP is necessary if one wants to pursue an airline career (ATP typically provided as part of the initial type ride). In the fixed wing world, not having an ATP is an impediment; nearly all fixed professional wing pilots outside of utility flying have an ATP.

Edited January 6, 2018 by avbug

[Scyther]

,...so your life is awesome then!

 

The struggle is real...

 

[r22butters]

The struggle is real...

 

,...and now peer twenty years into the future.

 

 

Make the bike a Harley though!

[mike0331]

Im pretty sure every job that exists has sucky aspects... Firefighting is an amazing career but there are definitely things about it that are meh. That being said, Id be over the moon if I made it into WOFT. Id have tried years ago had I known it was a thing!

 

Now my major concern is the ASVAB/SIFT. Ive been out of school and away from standardized testing for a long time. My arithmetic reasoning capabilities are weak so Im now looking for a math/science tutor. I already hit the gym five times a week and have some excellent people in mind for LORs. I definitely dont want to be barred just because I didnt prepare for some basic tests!

 

Ill be working on my ATPL either way. Ive flown on airliners since I was little and theres still something magical about it to me. The take-offs and landings, flying in zero visibility through clouds, cruising around the world at 500mph+, its all pretty amazing!

 

I wouldn't worry about the ASVAB/SIFT if you aren't stupid. Yeah, it sucks being a bit removed from school, but its not like astrophysics or advanced calculus. The ASVAB is essentially how to make change -- for the SIFT you will want to read the FAA helicopter flying handbook, get a sift study guide from amazon, and brush up on math up until logs, fractions, algebra, geometry and stuff. I forgot what logs were on the actual SIFT, still pulled off a 75. I haven't done math in like 7 or 8 years when I finished calc II.

 

Don't make the mistake of not studying though. You also might need to re-learn English since you've been around a bunch of people who talk funny for a few years.

 

As far as airline stuff goes, I listen to an airline podcast (Airline Pilot Guy) for shits and giggles while I regret my current career choice, entertaining and covers industry trends, flying, history, etc. According to them it's a good time to be trying to break into the industry... according to them.

Mike

[Scyther]

Way ahead of ya- I actually got my ASVAB for Dummies and the FAA Helicopter Handbook before heading back to the UK. Unfortunately my SIFT prep book didn't arrive on time but there are plenty of SIFT topics on these forums so it's all good.

 

I pretty much harassed every U.S. airline pilot I came into contact with (after my flights and at the airports) and they all said the same thing: "Now is a great time to become a pilot!" The fact that the regionals are offering better pay plus bonuses/incentives is decent proof I'd say. I just hope I don't miss out because I've got another year of saving to do before I've got the cash to splash on a zero-hero program.

 

BUT I'll be applying for WOFT either way!

[mike0331]

Yeah keep in mind that there's a long enough time commitment with WOFT that it's hard to guess at the airline hiring trends that far out -- I've heard they expect a massive growing pilot shortage, but who knows. Likewise, the military is doing everything they can to get pilots currently, that can flip 180 degrees in short order, though I doubt it will the next 3-4 years.

 

There was a point where the airlines drastically cut pay and benefits. We have a family friend who's brother is a captain with a legacy carrier and saw his pay decrease year after year at one point. That could happen again.

 

Finally -- keep in mind there are 2 issues with military aviation. 1 I can speak nothing about as I'm not in it, but there seems to be a lot of people in the army aviation community who think they could be better utilized. There is more discussion on that in the military section of this site. 2. is the military is the military. It's actually probably similar to the fire department in some ways -- except you can't leave. There is lot's of bureaucracy, limited control over your own life, and all the usual risks. Also, a lot of stupidity tends to work it's way in and you are essentially powerless to do anything about it. This was true in the infantry, I'm basically expecting it in the aviation field (which seems to be confirmed on this site). If you are good at rolling with the punches, you'll have an easier time. The one's who always had the biggest issue with it were the ones who just couldn't accept that some things just are, and always have been, and always will be. It gets worse and better throughout your time in, depending on who's in charge, what's going on, etc.

Mike

[r22butters]

You forgot one important difference. In the military, sometimes people shoot at you!

 

My biggest fear when I was young enough to join was that one day they'd come to me and say, we don't need you to fly anymore, here's a gun, you're with the infantry now!

 

I don't know if that ever really happens, but its why I would have joined the Navy. When it all comes down to it, I'd rather be a sailor than a soldier!

[SBuzzkill]

I'd rather die in the dirt on a battlefield than drown in a tin can under the water.

 

mike0331 is spot on. You're going to do a lot of things as an Army Aviator that will take your mind away from flying. We are short staffed and have heavier workloads, so there's a lot you will be tasked with. It's not all "officer work" either, you're going to be doing a lot of menial tasks and manual labor. Best to just suck it up and enjoy the times you get to fly or be in the field because it's going to be a loooooong decade for you if you can't deal with it.

Edited January 8, 2018 by SBuzzkill

[mike0331]

You forgot one important difference. In the military, sometimes people shoot at you!

 

My biggest fear when I was young enough to join was that one day they'd come to me and say, we don't need you to fly anymore, here's a gun, you're with the infantry now!

 

I don't know if that ever really happens, but its why I would have joined the Navy. When it all comes down to it, I'd rather be a sailor than a soldier!

 

r22 makes an important point. If you're afraid to do big-boy things, and there's nothing wrong with that, best avoid the military all-together. That said, since you are a firefighter, I'm sure you've found your own way to come to terms with the fragility of life. The "risk" to the modern warfighter is relatively low in Iraq and Afghanistan (and elsewhere for the high-speed types), with noteable exceptions. The casualty numbers speak for themselves, however. If WWIII were ever to break out, things could be entirely different. As far as the aforementioned concerns about pilots being given firearms and told to join the fight on the ground, this has happened in shoot-downs and base overruns in both theaters. That said, being told you are no longer a pilot and now a grunt is highly unlikely, and likely would only correspond to WWIII or some case where we needed the bodies and didn't have any aircraft for them to fly. One exception to this is doing rotations as a forward air controller. I know the USMC does this, but most pilots who pull the trigger from the air are happy to have an opportunity to coordinate it from the ground.

 

I was a grunt in Afghanistan. We basically drove around the desert running over IEDs. I'd much rather have spent my time shooting at things, even if they were trying to shoot me. Both will kill you, but you can't really fight back against IEDs, which sucked. As far as the navy goes, I'll echo SBuzzKill. There are some cool jobs in the Navy, and I'd consider it for certain things, but not for the greatest ways to die -- I think fire, drowning, drifting at sea, or getting eat by sharks is all worse than getting killed on the battlefield.

 

I've always had an interest in aviation, and in military aviation for that matter. After having spent some time playing the ground game it's really pushed me back this direction. Having air available, whether for reconnaissance, combat support, or medevac is really something special for the fighting man's mental game when outside the wire. There was a noticeable difference in attitude on the rare occasions we were operating with "red air," that is we couldn't expect any type of air support. I would prefer Army or USMC over Navy/AF, because I want to stay in a ground focused branch. Frankly, I like the army's utilization of warrants as pilots even being a prior Marine. Army aviators seem to have a lot of years available in the cockpit as well as a good mix of guys who aren't coming straight from college, but have military experience that includes a lot of former ground guys.

 

Mike

[Thedude]

Way ahead of ya- I actually got my ASVAB for Dummies and the FAA Helicopter Handbook before heading back to the UK. Unfortunately my SIFT prep book didn't arrive on time but there are plenty of SIFT topics on these forums so it's all good.

 

I pretty much harassed every U.S. airline pilot I came into contact with (after my flights and at the airports) and they all said the same thing: "Now is a great time to become a pilot!" The fact that the regionals are offering better pay plus bonuses/incentives is decent proof I'd say. I just hope I don't miss out because I've got another year of saving to do before I've got the cash to splash on a zero-hero program.

 

BUT I'll be applying for WOFT either way!

Don’t join the Army to be a pilot if all you want to do is be a civilian pilot. You owe a six year commitment after you finish flight school which means you’re looking at an 8-9 year stretch before being able to get out and be a civilian pilot. If all these low hour pilot jobs are gone you’ll be out of luck and sitting with maybe a little over 1000 hours rotary wing which won’t get you much if anywhere good in the industry. That’s assuming you don’t get tired of your $35 million oil leak trying to kill you and give up flying.

 

And like everyone else, hell no Navy. I can’t swim for sh*t and would rather burn into the ground than play that game.

[r22butters]

Arrr, don't let them scurvy landlovers scare ya,...

 

 

YVAN EHT NIOJ

[mike0331]

Don’t join the Army to be a pilot if all you want to do is be a civilian pilot. You owe a six year commitment after you finish flight school which means you’re looking at an 8-9 year stretch before being able to get out and be a civilian pilot. If all these low hour pilot jobs are gone you’ll be out of luck and sitting with maybe a little over 1000 hours rotary wing which won’t get you much if anywhere good in the industry. That’s assuming you don’t get tired of your $35 million oil leak trying to kill you and give up flying.

 

And like everyone else, hell no Navy. I can’t swim for sh*t and would rather burn into the ground than play that game.

You could have the opportunity to do both lol. I'm very comfortable in the water -- still not how I'd want to go out. We had a swim qual in the USMC, I toughed it out to the highest level. It still would help me out absolutely not at all if I 1. were in the middle of the ocean 2. had broken limbs 3. was on a submarine and/or trapped in a bulkhead, 4. was knocked unconscious, 5. was getting strafed by enemy aircraft 6. was being eaten by sharks.

 

If I weren't comfortable in the water I don't know that I'd want to be a pilot.

 

Mike

[Scyther]

Guys, I haven't even taken the ASVAB yet haha!

 

All I can say is the last time I felt this motivated about something was when I went for the fire service. I got in, loved it (still do) and have zero regrets. And now that wasn't even my ultimate dream! I'm youngish, single, really want to fly but also want to be part of something bigger than myself. Straight up- WOFT is an excellent opportunity and I'm going for it! Worse thing that can I happen is I don't get in... I really hope I get in!

[r22butters]

Actually, the worst thing that can happen is, you get in,...and then hate it!

[Scyther]

Apache>737

 

(first math lesson done)

 

[mike0331]

Actually, the worst thing that can happen is, you get in,...and then hate it!

Let's say he gets in and hates it.... so then he gets out 6 years later with a commercial licenses and ~1000 hours of turbine time, maybe some time in combat, and a free ride for 4-5 years of college if that's the direction he wants to go(where he will get paid a healthy housing stipend to attend), some veterans benefits for life, and definitely some cool stories.

 

I 100% promise the OP that even if he has the ideal military experience there will be many days where suck starting a rifle will seem like the best idea he ever had. Nature of the beast.

 

Mike

[Wally]

Modern tendency towards asymmetric combat, bush wars, makes it even more likely that an Army aviator will be an ad hoc grunt. Any aviation installation (or 1 parked aircraft) makes an inviting, high value target for resourceful bad guys. It's kinda like they intend to surprise and kill you.

Or you could be put in the dirt with a broken aircraft. The bad guys in the vicinity are real interested in those...

[r22butters]

Apache>737

 

(first math lesson done)

 

Cobra > Apache = Apache's have too many blades.

 

Then again,...

 

Bell 222 > Cobra = Because I can fly a 222 solo and I wouldn't have to wear a helmet!

 

Come to think of it though,...

 

R22 > Bell 222 = Because I can't afford a Bell 222!

 

,...damn, math sucks!

[mike0331]

AH-1Zs are 4 bladed...

 

As a former Marine I do have a soft spot for Cobras and super hueys.

[Thedude]

Cobra > Apache = Apache's have too many blades.

Then again,...

Bell 222 > Cobra = Because I can fly a 222 solo and I wouldn't have to wear a helmet!

Come to think of it though,...

R22 > Bell 222 = Because I can't afford a Bell 222!

,...damn, math sucks!

I can fly an Apache solo. Once.

[Scyther]

Let's say he gets in and hates it.... so then he gets out 6 years later with a commercial licenses and ~1000 hours of turbine time, maybe some time in combat, and a free ride for 4-5 years of college if that's the direction he wants to go(where he will get paid a healthy housing stipend to attend), some veterans benefits for life, and definitely some cool stories.

 

I 100% promise the OP that even if he has the ideal military experience there will be many days where suck starting a rifle will seem like the best idea he ever had. Nature of the beast.

 

Mike

 

This. Maybe it's because I'm still young and don't have a family but the idea of working in a safe, sterile environment sounds a bit meh. I like a bit of action, adventure and calculated risk. I'll get more interesting stories/experiences from flying an Army helicopter than I will flying an airliner... That's why I gotta go for it while I still have the chance! And like I said before I want to feel like I'm part of something bigger than myself where I get the chance to help people.

[r22butters]

,...yes but the stories you'll have as an airline jockey will involve stewardesses!

[avbug]

 

This. Maybe it's because I'm still young and don't have a family but the idea of working in a safe, sterile environment sounds a bit meh. I like a bit of action, adventure and calculated risk. I'll get more interesting stories/experiences from flying an Army helicopter than I will flying an airliner... That's why I gotta go for it while I still have the chance! And like I said before I want to feel like I'm part of something bigger than myself where I get the chance to help people.

 

 

When you're imprisoned in an African country because the ground crew, attracted by blood dripping from the aircraft, found a body with severed arm buried under 12 tons of cash in the lower cargo, it's hard to make the case that you'll find more interesting stories elsewhere. Ask the MD-11 crew.

 

At some point, sooner than later once you're working for a living, it's not about the stories, and later rather than sooner, it's all about the security.

 

The seniority you throw away in favor of stories will cost you millions on the back end of that career. Then again, it's hard to feed a family with stories.

[avbug]

As a former Marine...

 

Is there such a thing, among the living?