Helihead Posted October 14, 2007 Posted October 14, 2007 What would be some realistic number of how many hours you would need before you got a CFI job. tt helicopter, and how what percent of students start helicopter training, get there CFI, and get around 175 -200hrs and can't get a CFI job cuz insurance likes to see 300 from (what i hear) 300C or robbinsons, Do thoes people have to pay for an extra 100hrs or what??
jehh Posted October 15, 2007 Posted October 15, 2007 I have hired CFIs as low as 160 hours. Most new CFIs have 180 to 200 hours when they start. Insurance on the Robinson R-22 can vary, however a common insurance company (Pathfinder) requires 300 hours total helicopter time to teach in them. That is one reason we use the Schweizer 300 in addition to the R-22. My new CFIs can teach in it until they obtain 300 total time, then they can move to the R-22. If you end up with 200 hours and only have Robinson time, your options can be limited because so many schools use Pathfinder insurance.
Strikefinder Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I'm quite a ways off from this, but I figured I'd ask the follow up question: How would insurance deal with a CFI with a lot of total time, but less helicopter time? I'd eventually like to work up to my CFI and instruct in helicopters, and I've got over 6,000 hours fixed wing and nearly 1,000 of instruction in fixed wing. But going the add-on route I'll probably be able to earn the CFI certificate at around 100 hours (I think). Is there a hard-line minimum y'all have seen for total helicopter time to use the CFI? Am I looking at 150 hours, 200 hours, etc., even in the Schweizer?
BOATFIXERGUY Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 Most insurance will want at least 200 hours in helicopters, and 100 in model. Ours, USAIG (Airsure - Enstrom program) has done it with less, but they require an insurance checkout which is 10 times harder than the FAA checkout. We have had CFI's with less, but it's rare, and requires a Roger Sharkey endorsement for the Enstrom. A few years ago, the insurance didn't care how many hours you had. All you had to do was pass an insurance ride...times have changed though. The FAA has changed. You need 500tt hours now to do rides.
helonorth Posted October 23, 2007 Posted October 23, 2007 I'm quite a ways off from this, but I figured I'd ask the follow up question: How would insurance deal with a CFI with a lot of total time, but less helicopter time? I'd eventually like to work up to my CFI and instruct in helicopters, and I've got over 6,000 hours fixed wing and nearly 1,000 of instruction in fixed wing. But going the add-on route I'll probably be able to earn the CFI certificate at around 100 hours (I think). Is there a hard-line minimum y'all have seen for total helicopter time to use the CFI? Am I looking at 150 hours, 200 hours, etc., even in the Schweizer? Don't know for sure, but I would think you'd be insurable at 100 hours with your T.T. If you havea school picked out, ask them to call their provider to see what you need. Good luck.
jehh Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 I'm quite a ways off from this, but I figured I'd ask the follow up question: How would insurance deal with a CFI with a lot of total time, but less helicopter time? I'd eventually like to work up to my CFI and instruct in helicopters, and I've got over 6,000 hours fixed wing and nearly 1,000 of instruction in fixed wing. But going the add-on route I'll probably be able to earn the CFI certificate at around 100 hours (I think). Is there a hard-line minimum y'all have seen for total helicopter time to use the CFI? Am I looking at 150 hours, 200 hours, etc., even in the Schweizer? We have tried this before in the Schweizer... We had a 12,000 hour type rated jet guy who got his CFI add-on ratings... Insurance wouldn't touch him without 150 hours of helicopter time. Then again, this was 18 months ago, we haven't tried it recently, so who really can say. It all depends on the current insurance underwriters mood as much as anything. I can't get a blanket answer, it is on a case by case basis. Of course in the Robinson R-22, the SFAR 72 requires 200 hours of helicopter time to teach in a Robbie, so that is all a moot point. Of course, Pathfinder requires 300 hours of helicopter time, making that even more of a challenge. I tell everyone to plan on spending the money to pay for 150 hours of flight time, regardless of your fixed-wing time. If you manage to get approved with less, great, just don't count on it. Of course, this is our experience, others could be different.
Sparker Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 I have hired CFIs as low as 160 hours. Most new CFIs have 180 to 200 hours when they start. Insurance on the Robinson R-22 can vary, however a common insurance company (Pathfinder) requires 300 hours total helicopter time to teach in them. That is one reason we use the Schweizer 300 in addition to the R-22. My new CFIs can teach in it until they obtain 300 total time, then they can move to the R-22. If you end up with 200 hours and only have Robinson time, your options can be limited because so many schools use Pathfinder insurance. Doesn't Robinson own his own insurance company now so this wouldn't be an issue?
Goldy Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Doesn't Robinson own his own insurance company now so this wouldn't be an issue? uhh, yes. Pathfinder IS Robinson's insurance company...
JWN Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 uhh, yes. Pathfinder IS Robinson's insurance company...I hope I'm not getting too off topic, but when I saw posts from R22 owners that use Pathfinder insurance I had to speak up. Anyone who uses Pathfinder and thinks they have coverage similar to insurance is mistaken. Pathfinder is an off-shore, unrated company that only communicates by fax and email to shield themselves from liability. This is in itself revealing, but the real areas of concern are in the fine print of the policy. As an insured, you have to share the liability coverage and legal costs coverage with the factory! Unheard of in the insurance industry. The factory will always be sued in the event of a accident involving injury or death, so there goes much, if not all of your liability and defense costs coverage. Plus they reduce the amount they will pay for hull damage by each hour the aircraft flies, again, unheard of. The upshot is that with the recent rise in used R22 hull values, if anything happens to the aircraft, you will absolutely not get coverage for the market value for your ship. Also, you have to return the aircraft to the factory for repair or face serious increases in your deductible amount. Bringing the ship to the factory for repair is guaranteed to cost more, and take forever. Sorry, but I know directly of cases where people have been "insured" by Pathfinder and lost $60,000 when the dust settled after an accident. Thanks for letting me get this information out to others.
svtcobra66 Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 uhh, yes. Pathfinder IS Robinson's insurance company... I hope you're using the term "insurance company" loosely... You know there's a reason they're in the Caribbean and you can only find a fax number for contact info
RotorWeed Posted November 1, 2007 Posted November 1, 2007 I hope you're using the term "insurance company" loosely... You know there's a reason they're in the Caribbean and you can only find a fax number for contact info I have never heard anything negative about Pathfinder. I have always found them a pleasure to work with. They are much faster getting back to me then my fixed wing insurance company is. rw
svtcobra66 Posted November 2, 2007 Posted November 2, 2007 I have never heard anything negative about Pathfinder. I have always found them a pleasure to work with. They are much faster getting back to me then my fixed wing insurance company is. rw Its just that they're not an admitted carrier (which means if robinson gets in hot water, they may not be able to pay a claim). There are a lot of negatives. Their defense costs come out of your liability limits if Robinson gets sued. For your typical admitted insurance company, costs of defense are typically in addition to your policy limits. Half of your liability limits also go toward Robinson, in the event that someone gets money out of them. If your defense costs end up hitting your policy limits, you have no insurance left...and in a long law suit, that's a possibility. Then there's the fact that you have to eat the costs of transporting the helicopter back to Robinson's facility in CA, and if you don't then you pay more. Now what happens if the helicopter is at the bottom of a lake? Most insurance companies will pay for the cost of transporting the wreckage, but not Pathfinder. And I wouldn't do business with anyone I couldn't look up on the internet. With my best searching all I found was a fax number. Anyway thats my $.02
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