State of the job market for new CFI's....

[Flpilot88]

So what happens to all the left over CFI/CFII with 200TT and cannot afford to get more hours to get the requirements for a job and all the CFI/CFII with over 300TT that cannot get a job? Is it a waiting game?

 

Also a little off topic and can't be held for accurate information but,

 

Looking at the pilot jobs and resumes.

 

• There were seven job opening here at the website in the month of November.
  Three pilot resumes under 1500 in November &
  Two pilot resumes over 1500 in November.
  But this includes all jobs.
  

If there are so many more Pilots looking for jobs wouldn't you think they'll be trying hard posting their resume up to web sites too? I would be.

 

 

Hopefully some owners of flight schools will butt in and tell us a percentage of people they hire and don't hire.

Edited December 17, 2007 by Flpilot88

[Oil Pilot]

Let's do some math.

 

A new CFI can only teach through the Commercial level, so we'll say each student will take approximately 165 hours to reach that level. (Yes, I know, you only need 150, I'm being realistic)

 

A CFI will have in most cases 200 hours of time under his belt.

 

Theoretically, a CFI could teach 5 people from start to finish of their Commercial and reach 1000 hours. In a perfect world, at that point, the CFI would move on from instructing and one of the 5 could have his job. We don't live in a perfect world. Hiring seasons and job availability dictate when that CFI will finally leave.

 

When that CFI leaves, let's say those 5 students apply and they accept one. This leaves 4 new CFIs looking for a job somewhere else. 80 percent unemployed in the helicopter industry.

 

Lets look at some other things:

 

Without new schools opening up somewhere, current schools should be able to maintain a crew of instructors easily by teaching their own. The fact that there are a finite number of new students available, coupled with the increasing difficulty of financing helicopter training only makes the problem worse.

 

Schools are a pyramid business model. They have no choice in the matter. They have to have enough students to keep each instructor and each helicopter busy which means that when those students finish their training, 80 percent of them will not have a position within that school. SilverState compounded the pyramid business model by creating new schools to create more jobs so they could continue hiring their graduates and making more money. The initial growth of SSH created a huge influx of available CFI jobs available to everyone in the industry. Now that SSH is producing enough instructors to staff their new locations by strictly using SSH graduates, that pool of available jobs has once again shrunk.

 

Take into account the rumors (Very well substantiated rumors) that Air Log and PHI are trying to avoid hiring SSH graduates and now you have a bubble of instructors working at SSH that have 1000+ hours and have nowhere to go. The Vegas hiring season should alleviate some of that (Unless the Vegas operators have decided to follow suit with the Oil & Gas operators) but there will be a lot of SSH graduates with no jobs. The business model of just creating a new school t provide more positions can not last forever. Evidence of trimming the fat and getting rid of students who have gone beyond their training contracts points to a bursting bubble.

 

I agree with Lyn. There are going to be a lot of CFIs with 200 hours with no job within the industry. I also think there are going to be a lot of 1000 hour pilots who can not find a job to get that first turbine transition. The biggest gap I see in the industry right now are experienced pilots who have the qualifications and experience to fill the gaps in fires, utility, and EMS that are currently available or will be available in the near future. Once the current crop of pilots working in O&G and Vegas have the experience and move on, filling out those positions, things will start to even out, but it's going to be a slow, painful process for many of you.

[1badz32]

Wow.. i just read this thread... twice,

now i have a head ache.

I wonder how this system ever came about... the pilots with the least amount of real world experiance teach the pilots with NO experiance.

A higher rating than what the FAA provides would be a good idea (as mentioned)... if the money grubbing insurance companies would agree is another thing all togeather.

[nbit]

Adding to what I read here so far... The fact we are seeing instructors having a hard time finding their first job....

 

I'm seeing another problem... In addition, I'm seeing a number of higher time instructors that have lost a job due to the great number of schools that have started and shut down (i.e. - a lot of schools have popped up out there). Explaining further... As stated earlier, the ~80% of instructors that end up looking for work outside of the school they were taught at go elsewhere. After that occurs, they very likely end up at a low volume school or a new startup school, because these are the schools that typically will hire an "outsider". My observation has been - Due to the increase in helicopter schools, the nature of them is to become more competitive. Couple that with some don't have the right combination of demographics to supply a sustaining number of students, marketing issues, and/or operational infrastructure issues to sustain operation... Many of these schools close or stagnate at a low volume of operation. So this generalized group of instructors go to a vast majority of schools that close their doors or have very low flight hours in their operation, just hanging on. In consequence, I've seen several instructors between 500-1000 hours out of work, looking. OK, now let's take that further... Also couple that with a potential follow-up employer who may also be unwilling to hire a CFI/CFII with say, 800 hours... Why? ..Because that individual is a potential "short timer". ...Both situations leave a lot of instructors looking for work and struggling with a long road ahead no matter how many hours they have.

Edited December 17, 2007 by nbit

[ADRidge]

You know, I'm glad I read these threads during the day instead of right before I go to bed. As a private pilot student hoping (operative word at this point, it seems) to become a CFII at my school, this subject has been gnawing at me for a while.

 

I don't think there's any magic band-aid that will guarantee that everyone who starts flight school will finish, or that those who do will find work, or those that find work will keep that job till the magic thousand. I agree with K-38. Make sure you stand out in a good way. Training is a job interview you pay for. Personally if I'm going to shell out 55k for a CHANCE to get a job, you'd better believe I will be early for my flights and I will do my best to stand out in ground school. Also, I don't think anyone has mentioned it, but this place is fairly good for networking. Make sure to be "that guy" on the forum as well as at school.

 

And Rogue... I feel for ya. It would be easier to sleep at night if giving it your all is all it took to get a job. My incredibly cynical and cold answer is: That's Life. You do what you can, and let the cards fall where they may.

 

You know, thinking about it a bit longer, I'm not so sure I want a band-aid cure. I've had quite a few concerns about the civilian flight training industry since well before I started training. They're mainly issues of ethics and "when do you tell someone they should go find another pursuit?" Maybe the highly competitive nature of flight school and CFI jobs adds pressure across the board and will help to flush out some of those people who maybe shouldn't be an instructor in the first place? Not to say it eliminates them, because I think we can all name one person who has a job as a CFI/CFII and while they may be a great stick, just should not be in a teaching role.

 

Anyway, those are my wandering and disjointed thoughts on the matter.

[Rogue]

no doubt, that is life for sure, i hate to be cynical... but life has made me that way and well... facts are facts. i'm just glad i found this place before i jumped into the deep end, at least now if i decide to go through with it I know what I'm up against.

[Falko]

At the end everybody gets a job. The question is, WHEN and WHERE will a new CFI/ CFII gets his first job.

 

Sure, its easier to get a job with 300hrs(insurancewise). So far I did not hear of a person that did not get a job after he finished his training...please proof me wrong when I am wrong.

Another factor is also the season, when cfis are needed in flight schools.

 

 

Falko

[aclark79]

I agree with you Falko, I started training in 2002 and took 3 years to get my CFI due to lots of reasons, about a year and a half off. I don't know anyone in that time who got thier CFI and wanted to fly who didn't find an instructors job (and I was at one of those large schools). A lot of people had to travel long distances, a lot or them (myself included) didn't get their first job at the school they trained at, but everyone who got to CFI got a job eventually.

 

Now lots of people dropped out along the way, never getting thier PVT or COM, but thats going to happen in any industry. Some people got their CFI and realized they really didn't like flying... not sure why it took them so long to get there... but no one I know gave up because they couldn't find a CFI job somewhere. Now in my case I had to wait 3 months after graduating in January to find a job, but funny enough once March rolled around I had multiple offers.

[gator274]

I think a sharing of costs is a ideal that could work but I also see it facing major hurdles the greatest being he cost of a commercial pilot certificate.

 

I remember when the regional airlines were making new hires pay for their own training (between $10,000-$15,000) and now if you stay on between 12-18 mths (depending on the company) they pay.

 

If companies are going to be sharing a $60,000 bill with a potential employee they need to know that the person is able to complete the training, the person will be employable, and if the person leaves before the prescribed amount of time they have a way to get their money back. The last thing they want to do is become a bill collector and have lots of money tied up in people who aren't living up to their commitments.