Silver State Helicopters

[Goldy]

OK, let me start by saying I am not a SSH basher....generally speaking. I have never seen, been to, looked at, or been near a SSH school. I did see one of their R22's once fly overhead if that counts.

 

However, this months Vertical magazine, which we all know and love as one of the best out there...has a press release on page 20. SSH own release states and I quote "more than 2,400 students and a fleet of 148 R22's and 47 R44's". Now, I believe I got a C in math once, so I think it adds up to 195 helicopters with 2,400 students..or a ratio of 12.3 students to each helicopter.

 

So 12.3 people want to fly 3 times a week. With preflights thats a tight schedule of 2.0 hours per flight, or 74 scheduled hours each week. Hmmm...is there any time to change the oil ?

 

Now, lets say those 12.3 people want to fly once each day.....hmm..thats impossible...even if you were flying 24 hours a day.

 

Oh, dont forget all those commercial operations, which means those ships are not available to students.

 

One of the newest locations says they opened with 50 students, yet they have 2 ships?

 

Just do the math.

 

Goldy

[jehh]

I'd call your math teacher and tell her you deserve an "A" after all.

 

Yes, you hit the nail on the head...

 

I don't doubt they have 2,400 students, however very few will ever become commercial pilots due to a lack of aircraft, CFIs, and desire by management to actually graduate students.

 

Not that I know anything of course, I only used to work for them.

[Signia]

I'd call your math teacher and tell her you deserve an "A" after all.

 

Yes, you hit the nail on the head...

 

I don't doubt they have 2,400 students, however very few will ever become commercial pilots due to a lack of aircraft, CFIs, and desire by management to actually graduate students.

 

Not that I know anything of course, I only used to work for them.

 

Its very simple and obvious, they set up their contract so they have your money whether or not they provide you services, Then they set up their school with a very high pressure atmosphere and low flight time with high competition among students counting on about 90% to flunk out or not finish so they can keep the money , then they repeat the whole thing again . I had a very available schedule for flying due to the hours i worked and at best i could fly (or be scheduled) twice a week, and i would get winded out often anyway. So barely flying often is hard to learn to get better at flying, and they said you would have unlimited sim time as well which never happened. Basically at SSH they take the attitude they are doing YOU a favor by letting you train there and so they bend you over, and if you have a problem with that then you are just a looser who can't hack it, but I stopped flying there anyway due to medical problems but even then at the time i was slowly coming to realize that it was screwed up there and sort of a pyramid scheme type situation. Early on when i got my bill and saw what my payment would be I went to talk about it and I told the school manager I was very uncomfortable with that and it stressed me greatly . He told me that If i was that worried about the money then I didn't want to be a pilot enough and that maybe this wasn't the field for me, So i told him I would be leaving the program then, and he changed his tune and talked me out of leaving assuring me i'd find better financing options.

I don't know, its horrible, its not impossible to be successful there but you are standing on the backs of the others that didn't make it and the way the school takes their money is wrong and i wish I would have known better myself at the time. I'm not trying to bash I'm just telling how i see things.

[fry]

In the interests of providing equal time, the following was posted at JH by Randy Rawles a senior exec at SSH:

 

How many times do we (SSH leadership) have to agree with you that the system needed to be repaired. We are repairing the system (2 additional Part 141 locations approved yesterday) and graduating more students per month than ANY other helicopter flight school with

 

We have plenty of helicopters for the demand of our student load now which we didn't have before. We have placed a relatively simple limit to our student load at each location with onsite resources as the limiting factor.

 

As for the student contractual agreement, I don’t like many parts of it either. This is a financial decision of the company long before I got here. What I do know is that this student agreement provided more security to the students by giving SSH substantial cash reserves to continue operations without new students for approx one year. This is evident by the increase of flight hours (18,265 flight hours November, on-track for > 240,000 hours in 2008) even with the current credit crunch that ALL schools are feeling industry wide.

 

We have developed a nine month program (relatively standard in the industry) to combat students getting behind on their contract timeframe. A 9 month program puts the student well ahead of the program. The 10 month refund policy is fixed as the student will be ahead of the program from day one. This was creative, but it worked! The student will have the choice to go with the longer program, but mandatory training metrics (hours of flight, ground, grades) are in place so that NO student will get left behind again.

 

The current structure and culture of SSH is very different than one year ago. I am very proud of the path this company is taking and efforts being made to repair the “potholes”.

[jehh]

Fry, I'll give you credit... You made your point without having to say anything yourself.

 

SSH is a mess, because it over promises and under delivers. They either need to get rid of the 10 month refund policy, or provide guarantees on flight time so that it is possible to finish in the advertised 18 months. Either would be fine. In fact, a number of students I've spoken with have said they do not mind the financial terms so much as they mind the inability to obtain flight time due to too many students and not enough helicopters.

 

In the end, it will be interesting to see what happens with the lawsuits.

[fry]

As for the student contractual agreement, I don’t like many parts of it either. This is a financial decision of the company long before I got here. What I do know is that this student agreement provided more security to the students by giving SSH substantial cash reserves to continue operations without new students for approx one year. This is evident by the increase of flight hours (18,265 flight hours November, on-track for > 240,000 hours in 2008) even with the current credit crunch that ALL schools are feeling industry wide.

 

We have developed a nine month program (relatively standard in the industry) to combat students getting behind on their contract timeframe. A 9 month program puts the student well ahead of the program. The 10 month refund policy is fixed as the student will be ahead of the program from day one. This was creative, but it worked! The student will have the choice to go with the longer program, but mandatory training metrics (hours of flight, ground, grades) are in place so that NO student will get left behind again.

 

"Provided security to the students"???? Hellllloo...the students paid in advance. If the company doesn't blow the money on things like overpaid execs, silly media campaigns and unprofitable commercial operations then the students' money should be on hand to pay for their training. What the agreement really did was provide the management of SSH with too much cash to indulge in whatever silly and money wasting projects they could come up with. The question now is, will there be enough cash for the current students to continue training when the "current credit crunch" causes SSH's new student inflow to dry up? Will SSH's equity partner kick in more cash? I sure wouldn't want to be the last student to have his loan drawn down by SSH just before it closed the doors.

 

As for the "nine month program", is SSH still marketing to the masses..."the working adult"? Probably, but can those folks realistically complete zero to CFII in nine months while working forty hours a week?

 

Oh and the terminology, "10 month refund policy" is priceless. But isn't it really still a $7,000-a-month-nonrefundable-cost-regardless-of-the-services-provided policy?

[adam32]

I've always wondered, how has SSH become so big so fast with all the negative feedback about them throughout the ENTIRE helicopter industry? They are a GIANT company, but I just can't figure out how they did with such a poor reputation.

[BOATFIXERGUY]

I've always wondered, how has SSH become so big so fast with all the negative feedback about them throughout the ENTIRE helicopter industry? They are a GIANT company, but I just can't figure out how they did with such a poor reputation.

I always wonder the same thing!

[edspilot]

I'll tell you how they do it.....

 

 

 

They are selling a DREAM!

 

When "emotion" is involved "common sence" is NOT!

 

 

 

edspilot

 

 

 

 

 

I always wonder the same thing!

[PhotoFlyer]

I've always wondered, how has SSH become so big so fast with all the negative feedback about them throughout the ENTIRE helicopter industry? They are a GIANT company, but I just can't figure out how they did with such a poor reputation.

 

They rely on their potential students to not do any research, and blindly place their faith (and money) with SSH. And it works, the people suckered in don't do research, and then get screwed. Some of them actually do the research and STILL go with SSH. What is the saying... A fool and his money will soon be parted...

Edited January 31, 2008 by PhotoFlyer

[IFLY]

Well not all of us get screwed, some of us really put in the time and effort to finish all the ratings. I did take a loan and I've been paying it back the whole time while I'm still making a decent paycheck. Now its time to find a job teaching and I still have the same options as people that trained elsewhere have. In the mean time I still keep paying down the loan and rent a R-22 to teach a few students. SSH is the only school in town so I might have to start there and help the other students get their moneys worth from the school.

 

Jerry

Edited January 31, 2008 by IFLYEVERYTHING

[PhotoFlyer]

Now its time to find a job teaching and I still have the same options as people that trained elsewhere have.

 

What happened to instructing at SSH?

 

I'm glad you made it through the program, but that doesn't make what they do any better. They sell a dream to uninformed people who don't realize the commitment it takes to complete the program, and then when they can't make it, they get screwed.

[Chi-town]

I just spoke with an SSH student who took his private checkride at 136 hours. I wouldn't mention it other than the fact that I'd been hearing second hand stories of 80-hour solos, etc. but this was the first time I spoke face to face with someone with a horror story. Bounced around by different instructors, scheduling problems, etc.

 

Maybe the reorganization will fix it, but I'm of the opinion that you can't market flight training like you market time shares.

[rick digiovanni]

I just want to thank everyone who has come forward with their experiences with SSH. I was considering obtaining my training with them until I started reading about all the horror stories about them. The fact that they require you to pay the entire $70k up front should serve as a huge red flag. Since they already have your money, they have absolutely no incentive to provide you any service!

[AZpilot199]

I just spoke with an SSH student who took his private checkride at 136 hours. I wouldn't mention it other than the fact that I'd been hearing second hand stories of 80-hour solos, etc. but this was the first time I spoke face to face with someone with a horror story. Bounced around by different instructors, scheduling problems, etc.

 

Maybe the reorganization will fix it, but I'm of the opinion that you can't market flight training like you market time shares.

Yeah stories like that aren't really uncommon. I didn't get my private with SSH until about 130 hrs due to swapping thru nearly a dozen instructors in as many months, plus the last instructor I was with and I didn't get along. Don't get me wrong he wasn't a bad guy, not even necessarily a bad instructor... just not the right instructor for me. Granted I did manage to get things turned around, swapped CFI's, and nailed my commercial at exactly 100.0 hrs PIC so I feel a bit vindicated.

[RotorWeed]

I just spoke with an SSH student who took his private checkride at 136 hours. I wouldn't mention it other than the fact that I'd been hearing second hand stories of 80-hour solos, etc. but this was the first time I spoke face to face with someone with a horror story. Bounced around by different instructors, scheduling problems, etc.

 

Maybe the reorganization will fix it, but I'm of the opinion that you can't market flight training like you market time shares.

 

 

You are going to hear a lot more stories in the next few months as people come forward. I'm sure if you go out and find people that invested their life saving with his "Water filter" enterprize they will tell you something that sounds familiar too. This isn't the first time, nor the last time ole Jerry exits stage left with a mountain of cash. Buyer beware! He got rich on your dime!

[bgot21]

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Edited January 16, 2016 by bgot21

[Goldy]

Just do the math.

 

Goldy

 

 

Wow, in light of recent events I plan to contest my report card. I'll give myself a B+, Fry deserves the only A in town..

 

Goldy