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"...our current scud-running culture"

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#21 WolftalonID


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Posted 04 August 2016 - 09:39

Hmmmm...he had a GPS, and a sectional. I wonder if his instructor ever taught him what those pesky black ticked lines all over that sectional were.

Too bad he couldnt pin point his location on the map.
  • r22butters likes this
Sometimes we think we know it all....only later to discover we only knew all we had learned. Never stop learning.

#22 Wally


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Posted 04 August 2016 - 10:43

What are you crazy!? I can't afford to SFH one of those!

Just gonna sit here and write in my journal,...'cause I guess I can't even afford a gameboy either? :(

Kinda snarky, aintcha?


What is 'scud running'? The image that immediately comes to mind is nap of the earth in poor weather. That stereotype is too limited, one could be pushing weather at any altitude, I've been without useful visual reference in VMC at altitudes up to 9000 agl. I was 'legally' VFR but functionally IMC in those events. Yes, I was at increased risk, but an exposure not casually accepted as boundaries and realistic plans were in place, plans within the law, aircraft and my own capabilities. Hoping there's not a rock in that cloud and that there is better weather on the other side is not a plan.


The Youtube videos posted show different aspects the job requires:

"R44 Special VFR Inclement Weather Oxnard to Vegas" is a PIC with intimate familiarity with the route's terrain guiding the PF. Without that local knowledge, forecast and broad oversight of weather, knowledge of absolute altitude and speed in the video, I can't say if it was as ugly as it appears. What it does show is the continuous change in what's included in your visual range, change in the ceiling and vis as you progress through whatever marginal weather conditions you will allow. It's not a clearly defined dome of 500 and 3 miles moving around you.

The next part of that video's lessons demonstrate the requirement for a dynamic and flexible continuous decision making process. Change your route, altitude, speed as required to stay safe but have a defined minimum that when encountered aborts the flight, and a continuing plan for that acceptable abort.


The second video:

"Robinson R22 Flight to Gatlinburg - Precautionary landing due to Weather + climb to 13,200ft"

shows realistic appreciation for risk and the continuing dynamic plan in action. The route proposed was not straight over the mountains (A scary place that I am familiar with), instead down the valley and parallel the ridge back up to destination. I don't like the HIawassee Valley, but it's a better choice than crossing the Smokeys direct. He landed after the weather became unacceptable, was patient and completed the flight safely.


Both good calls and vivid illustrations of the day-to-day of real pilots.

  • SBuzzkill likes this

Just a pilot (retired, so I have a LOT of time)...

#23 r22butters


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Posted 04 August 2016 - 10:56

"R44 Special VFR Inclement Weather Oxnard to Vegas" is a PIC with intimate familiarity with the route's terrain guiding the PF

As an IIMC survivor I can tell you that the conversation/situation in that R44 ferry flight were eerily familiar, and could have gone real bad real quick at several points! Intimate knowledge plus a private owner can be a scarry combination!

This guy was obviously a very skilled pilot,...but you can only poke the bear so many times! R.I.P.

Edited by r22butters, 06 August 2016 - 11:42.

Side boob is just so awesome,...yes it is!

#24 achfly


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Posted 06 August 2016 - 14:13

Well archfly. 3000 5 seems like a stretch for ADM. Different regions will have different weather, and different concerns. You fly near the coast, and weather can be very volatile and produce fog or thin clouds fast. I spent some time in Texas and the beautiful days would not be that way for long at times.

Helicopters are allowed VFR below VMC for a reason. So when we are flying IMC but still maintaining 1 mile vis and clear of clouds, we just need to know our weather and how to stay safe. I am instrument rated, CFII actually, and fly with both non instrument rated pilots and other instrument pilots.

I currently fly in high altitude mountain regions, where I have spent most of my flying and weather up here is just as volatile but in a completly different way. Fogs, clouds, rain, snow, haze, smoke. It is all here and we are flying through it often and with safety well inside any 3000 5. Sure clear sunny days exist, but more days at 1000 3 are experienced.

We just fly by the rule....land the damn bird. Works pretty well if weather closes in while we are dispatched.

I think we're on the same page. I didn't say cancel at less than 3000 and 5. I said have a plan for IIMC and be mentally ready to execute. So many people have crashed perfectly good aircraft because they are in denial of their situation. They spend way to long trying to find an outside horizon instead of transitioning to instruments. I know it can happen to anyone but if you have an IIMC recovery plan before you leave the ground I think that improves your odds a lot. I've flown the Rockies and the coast of Texas. Two areas of very dynamic weather with sneaky changes. I get what you're saying; you're aware of this and you've done the mental prep. You're a good example to myself and others. Thank you.
  • WolftalonID likes this
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