The Cost of Flight Training...The Cost Of Life

[rcreager]

http://www.idahostatesman.com/1425/story/977840.html

 

Now, I know many people have told me to join the military...it is the only economical way to become a helicopter pilot.

 

However, please tell me this. Is it worth dying just to get your certificates free? After reading this article and many others a like, I would have to pass on the military option. But then again I am sure there are some who take it as an adrenaline rush.

[Lindsey]

http://www.idahostatesman.com/1425/story/977840.html

 

Now, I know many people have told me to join the military...it is the only economical way to become a helicopter pilot.

 

However, please tell me this. Is it worth dying just to get your certificates free? After reading this article and many others a like, I would have to pass on the military option. But then again I am sure there are some who take it as an adrenaline rush.

 

I can assure you, many military helicopter pilots do not choose that route to "just get your certificates free" or for the "adrenaline rush." At least, that's not why I'm joining the Army to fly.

[heloidaho]

I have to echo the sentiments of Lindsey. I'm not a big fan of people that want the benefits the military provides, but don't want to do the service portion. The military isn't about getting your GI Bill money and training to fly helicopters--it is about serving the country. If you get benefits out of that, great, but don't forget the reasons those benefits exist in the first place.

 

I'd recommend reading the novel "Once An Eagle" by Anton Myrer. It speaks volumes about what it means to serve.

[Lindsey]

http://www.idahostatesman.com/1425/story/977840.html

 

Now, I know many people have told me to join the military...it is the only economical way to become a helicopter pilot.

 

However, please tell me this. Is it worth dying just to get your certificates free? After reading this article and many others a like, I would have to pass on the military option. But then again I am sure there are some who take it as an adrenaline rush.

 

I'm really trying to refrain from stating my exact reaction to reading your post, but I also feel my initial reply didn't get my point across as strongly as I wished.

 

Basically, if that is your perception of Army aviators, please do not join the Army.

 

However, beyond that I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, that you didn't really mean folks only join so they can reap all the benefits or get the adrenaline rush. I am curious if you could expand on your thoughts.

 

Best regards,

Lindsey

[rcreager]

I agree how you could see that post as being rather ignorant. I know that reply doesnt make a lot of since either. It was not intended to say someone would join the military soley to be a pilot...but i'm sure there have been a few.

 

No will not get into a conversation about the military because i know if will just end in an argument. I have mixed thoughts. But mostly the miliitary is fine with me. I'm just to scared to be shot at. I'm young and stupid...but my thoughts are just that. Thoughts. Anyway, up-most respect will always be given to service members by me. Always.

Nevertheless, i do believe people join for various reasons. If this not true then why do recruiters hit up all of the poor highschools to fill their quota. Answer: education, money... thats all i'm saying. God bless your thoughts for they are taken seriously in my mind.

[Lindsey]

I agree how you could see that post as being rather ignorant. I know that reply doesnt make a lot of since either. It was not intended to say someone would join the military soley to be a pilot...but i'm sure there have been a few.

 

No will not get into a conversation about the military because i know if will just end in an argument. I have mixed thoughts. But mostly the miliitary is fine with me. I'm just to scared to be shot at. I'm young and stupid...but my thoughts are just that. Thoughts. Anyway, up-most respect will always be given to service members by me. Always.

Nevertheless, i do believe people join for various reasons. If this not true then why do recruiters hit up all of the poor highschools to fill their quota. Answer: education, money... thats all i'm saying. God bless your thoughts for they are taken seriously in my mind.

 

This is what I was hoping to hear.

 

I agree with you 100%, and there is absolutely nothing wrong (at least in my book) with folks NOT wanting to join the military. I totally understand that you don't want to get shot at, no kidding! I'd say that's a pretty good reason to not want to join.

 

In all seriousness, I also agree that there are quite a few people (and aviators) who join the Army and other armed services for the benefits. It sucks, I know people who do it and it annoys the hell out of me. However, regardless of why they joined, they still did it, and are still sacrificing their lives. The economy is only making things worse in terms of the numbers who are signing up solely for job security, money, benefits, etc. It's unfortunate, but nothing can be done about it.

 

Thanks for clarifying what you meant! I would also say to those who tell you to join the military to fly...ask them why they say that. If they say "well it's a great way to learn to fly while serving your country" then that's great. If they say "well, it's a great way to learn to fly for free, man!" then show them that article and ask if free medical coverage and free helo certs are worth your life. After all, those pieces of paper and that medical coverage does nothing for you if you're dead. Not if that's the sole reason you join. Just a suggestion; I'm curious why folks tell people to go that route.

[r22butters]

When I was young I wanted to join the Navy, because I thought flying an F-14 would be fun. I also thought it would be the best way into NASA to fly the Shuttle. I never thought much about dying, or having to kill anyone, but who really does when they're young?

 

Later, when I bacame a Helicopter Pilot, I tried to get into the Army. I thought it would be a good way to get some experience, while finally doing something important with my life. However, being older, I definitly thought about the possibility of dying, plus I'm not sure now if I could kill anyone, so I figured I could fly EMS or a transport for them.

 

The military rejected me (athsma), so I never got to find out if flying for them is worth the risk of dying, however, its interesting to see how my attitudes about death change as I get older.

[jumpngonuts]

I joined the Navy right out of high school with the thought I'll be doing something for my country and if I play my cards right I might end up flying someday. Long story shot, I ended up being a corpsman and loved every bit of just doing that. I'm out of the service now and slowly chugging away at getting all my ratings I want to get and I used most of my GI bill for college and not flight training thinking a plan B would be worth putting the money into. That move paid off because plan B quickly became my career for now until I get the hours and ratings... It'd be nice if a guy could win the powerball and bring in a extra million or two.

[spubar44]

well you spelled it out in one of your comments, that your not sure if you want to be shot at. Well, you join the army their is a good chance you will be, so don't it that is what your thinking about. It is all about you want to do for others in the end. If everyone just cared about themselves to that extent, not saying that you are. Then noone would even bother helping you with your question. I joined the Military right out of high school and still active going on 16 years and when i joind, the only thing i was thinking was what could i do to make a difference and enjoy it at the same time? Not what do they have that will benefit me. It is all about taking risk for the greater cause and taking the risk for others. Now i am a Chief in the Coast Guard, no i dont' fly, i drive the boats, but working on my private on my own dime and i wouldn't change it for nothing. The faces you see on the people you saved that depended on you to save them and knowing they will see their loved ones again is worth it.

 

So in all, it is just something in you that tells you to serve that you just can't explain, the benefits are a perk! Thanks

[Rat]

http://www.idahostatesman.com/1425/story/977840.html

 

Now, I know many people have told me to join the military...it is the only economical way to become a helicopter pilot.

 

However, please tell me this. Is it worth dying just to get your certificates free? After reading this article and many others a like, I would have to pass on the military option. But then again I am sure there are some who take it as an adrenaline rush.

This is incredible. have you ever heard of patriotism. How about love of your country. Those who have died and their families have made the ultimate sacrifice for you and the rest of us. Show a little respect.

[Lindsey]

This is incredible. have you ever heard of patriotism. How about love of your country. Those who have died and their families have made the ultimate sacrifice for you and the rest of us. Show a little respect.

 

Calm down...he clarified his thoughts further down:

 

I agree how you could see that post as being rather ignorant. I know that reply doesnt make a lot of since either. It was not intended to say someone would join the military soley to be a pilot...but i'm sure there have been a few.

 

No will not get into a conversation about the military because i know if will just end in an argument. I have mixed thoughts. But mostly the miliitary is fine with me. I'm just to scared to be shot at. I'm young and stupid...but my thoughts are just that. Thoughts. Anyway, up-most respect will always be given to service members by me. Always.

Nevertheless, i do believe people join for various reasons. If this not true then why do recruiters hit up all of the poor highschools to fill their quota. Answer: education, money... thats all i'm saying. God bless your thoughts for they are taken seriously in my mind.

[Rat]

Calm down...he clarified his thoughts further down:

Clarifying his thoughts does not dismiss the ignorance. By the way I'm extremely calm just passionate about our military !

[Lindsey]

Clarifying his thoughts does not dismiss the ignorance. By the way I'm extremely calm just passionate about our military !

 

I had the same initial reaction to his first post, so I can see where you're coming from. At the same time though, I don't necessarily think, after his clarification, that he was insulting military personnel.

[palmfish]

Clarifying his thoughts does not dismiss the ignorance. By the way I'm extremely calm just passionate about our military !

 

Sorry, I don't see the ignorance in his post.

 

We all have our comfort level when it comes to risk. For some, the military may seem too dangerous. Some people are too afraid to fly at all, let alone pilot a military aircraft - combat or not.

 

He may be naive, but at least he knows his limitations. Better to stay out of the military altogether than join up, whine, make trouble, and put his buddies at risk for 4+ years (and we all know of few of these types, don't we?).

[Rat]

Sorry, I don't see the ignorance in his post.

 

We all have our comfort level when it comes to risk. For some, the military may seem too dangerous. Some people are too afraid to fly at all, let alone pilot a military aircraft - combat or not.

 

He may be naive, but at least he knows his limitations. Better to stay out of the military altogether than join up, whine, make trouble, and put his buddies at risk for 4+ years (and we all know of few of these types, don't we?).

Palmfish, you are right. Perhaps I let my feelings get out of control. Lindsey probably has it right, I should calm down a tad. Reager, sorry for the harsh words.

[rcreager]

Yeah it was more or less just a personal feeling. I was so close to joining for the right reasons at a point. But would pretty much have night mears about flying and being shot at even before joining. Anyways, i think its just a fear of mine and was trying to convey it and anybody else who felt the same way. I'm glad to see there are different view points twords this. Sorry for any of my mistaken attitude twords serving. But i do want to live the rest of my life flying helicopters...any maybe helping people at the same time, hopefully.

[R22139RJ]

A lot of good ideas have been shared about the military and getting a rating flying amazing ships and the possibility of the chinook job would be amazing. Luckily I was in a position where I could finance the cost of training and could make certain that I got what I wanted, the helicopter position. I want to travel all over and fly and I think the best place to fly in the military (besides the coast guard, you guys are the sh*t) would be in a war with an 8 year contract. Fighting and dying for your country is the biggest sacrifice anyone could make. Think back to Revolutionary War and the famous quote, "don't shoot until you can see the white in their eyes," im not that brave. Thank technology for .223. The idea of dying in Iraq or Afghanistan to get some hours isn't worth it to me. The region seems hopeless. In regards to the military, if anyone invaded this amazing country, i'll skip the enlistment process, grab my AR and all the ammo I can, and march in there because if it came down to this country's freedom I would lay down my life. My two cents.

 

Thanks to all who serve and those who have.

[Trans Lift]

I'm sure some of you are going to like this (sarcasm) but I'm going to say it anyways. I would join the US military only to fly helicopters. I have all my ratings already and they way the economy is right now, I would think about joining but only to fly. Its not for the service of America but for my own goals in life. There are lots of people in the military who are there just for the benefits and if you think every one of them is there for the love of their country then you are wrong. I'm not taking away from all the guys who do it to serve and I have the utmost respect for them. I'm being honest here.

 

Some do it to become citizens and to give there family a better life, some to it because they don't know what else to do and some do it because it has good benefits. In all fairness, these people help make up the numbers too and it is a job at the end of the day.

 

I served in the Irish defence forces and people outside the STATES dont view the military the same way as you all do here. In most other countries they do not consider their military heroes. Just the the way it is.

 

Why would it be wrong for someone to want to join military to only get their helicopter training for free? As long as they do a good job at it, then they are still on the same team, does it really matter? NO. A man or woman can do just as good a job being there for themself as they can being there for the good of their country. You're not going to get flight experience like it anywhere else.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

I'm awaiting the incoming fire.

[Lindsey]

I'm sure some of you are going to like this (sarcasm) but I'm going to say it anyways. I would join the US military only to fly helicopters. I have all my ratings already and they way the economy is right now, I would think about joining but only to fly. Its not for the service of America but for my own goals in life. There are lots of people in the military who are there just for the benefits and if you think every one of them is there for the love of their country then you are wrong. I'm not taking away from all the guys who do it to serve and I have the utmost respect for them. I'm being honest here.

 

Some do it to become citizens and to give there family a better life, some to it because they don't know what else to do and some do it because it has good benefits. In all fairness, these people help make up the numbers too and it is a job at the end of the day.

 

I served in the Irish defence forces and people outside the STATES dont view the military the same way as you all do here. In most other countries they do not consider their military heroes. Just the the way it is.

 

Why would it be wrong for someone to want to join military to only get their helicopter training for free? As long as they do a good job at it, then they are still on the same team, does it really matter? NO. A man or woman can do just as good a job being there for themself as they can being there for the good of their country. You're not going to get flight experience like it anywhere else.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

I'm awaiting the incoming fire.

 

Hmm. I have more to add, but for now I'll say that if you say exactly that to the WOFT board, good luck.

 

Also,

Are you willing to sacrifice your life for that training/hours?

Would you take a bullet for your crew if it came down to it?

 

If the answer to either of those is "no," then I don't want you as my stick buddy or as my crew. Sorry, it's nothing personal, but I'm being dead honest here.

[IFLY]

I served in the Irish defence forces and people outside the STATES dont view the military the same way as you all do here. In most other countries they do not consider their military heroes. Just the the way it is.

 

If your not American then you probably don't understand.

 

Jerry

USAF Retired

[Trans Lift]

Are you willing to sacrifice your life for that training/hours?

 

I do everytime I fly a helicopter, I do everyday flying with students, if I go to Nigeria to fly I run the risk of getting shot at and I cant even shoot back. That is the risks of the job. Its a RISK that you choose to take.

 

Would you take a bullet for your crew if it came down to it?

 

Once again, the risk of the job. So, yes I would.

 

If the answer was no, do you think I'd really even contemplate joining?

 

If your not American then you probably don't understand.

 

You're right I'm not. But I'd still do the job the same as the next man.

[beckwith]

This is a tricky conversation to try and interject any kind of nuance into I'm afraid but here goes. First off, I'm not in the military, I have considered it and do consider it an option, and I have great deal of respect for those who do serve in the military.

It would be a disservice to our country to assert or imply that the military is the only service you can give to your country.

 

As my friend the Air Force helicopter pilot said to me once "Military flight training isn't free it just doesn't cost you any money." As others have pointed out above there are some who are not willing to pay those other prices. Others are not willing to pay those prices for anything short of flight training. Does that mean that they are cowards or selfish or lack patriotism as some here have implied?

 

Lindsey, I have placed myself in jeopardy for people I don't even know and I have seen real heroism outside of the military. I assume that it was accidental but please don't imply that the military is the sole realm of those qualities of selflessness or that those who don't join lack them.

[Lindsey]

Lindsey, I have placed myself in jeopardy for people I don't even know and I have seen real heroism outside of the military. I assume that it was accidental but please don't imply that the military is the sole realm of those qualities of selflessness or that those who don't join lack them.

 

No sir, I am ABSOLUTELY NOT saying that. I promise. I have absolutely nothing against folks who don't join the service, I certainly realize it's not for everyone and there are countless folks who make a major difference in the civilian world. EMS, SAR, just volunteering, everything. Sorry if I implied that at all.

 

All I was saying is that in a career field like Army Aviation (not that this is the only one, military or not), where you are put in mortal danger *every single day,* you better sure as hell be conscious of that, and be willing to go "above and beyond" when it comes to flying and protecting those below you and behind you. I wasn't saying that TransLift is one of those people who wouldn't, it was just a "gut check" if you will.

 

Like I said, if he said "no" to either one of those questions I wouldn't want to fly with him. As it is, he made it clear the answer to both was "yes," and thus I have no problem whatsoever.

[beckwith]

Thanks for the clarification I'm sorry if I over reacted I agree that that is a good "gut check."

 

In other news that may be the first time in my life I have been called sir.

[Lindsey]

Thanks for the clarification I'm sorry if I over reacted I agree that that is a good "gut check."

 

In other news that may be the first time in my life I have been called sir.

 

 

 

Nuthin' wrong with a little respect! Now we can really be "overly" polite and I can say "sorry if I over reacted to your over reaction."