zippiesdrainage Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 This may be a simple question but one I can't seem to find specified in the FAR. When can a CFI begin to claim flight time as "flight instruction given". For example during CFI training and flying with an instructor but while flying from the left seat and mock teaching, can a student claim that? There is an arguement that not being a CFI yet means that they can't provide flight training, but what about when a pilot trains to get their CFII after having their CFI and flies with an instructor. The reason I'm confused mostly is due to the options allowed to commercial pilots via Part 119 allowing commercial pilots to perform flight training, now while not allowed to completly train a student without a CFI, a commercial pilot could take a student up for a discovery flight for a flight school and allow the student to take controls wouldn't that be considered flight training? Any ideas, discussions or arguements would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C of G Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 The question I have is why do you need to log "instruction given"? The reason I ask, is because it is not generally an FAA requirement, so there tends not to be a definition, per se. Having said that, any time you instruct, it is instruction given. The only time you need to log the instruction received is for a rating of some sort, and you need a properly certified CFI to conduct that training. There are numerous instances of giving instruction without a CFI certificate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippiesdrainage Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Sorry when I posted the topic, I didn't have my log book with me. The area of the logbook to log "as flight instructor". I agree that there isn't an FAA regulation as to what exactly constitutes "Flight Instruction", but it is a requirement for some flight school CFI/CFII jobs so the question naturally caught my interest. Since part 119 seems to imply that you don't have to have a CFI/CFII in order to log instruction time, and your "mock instruction" occurs while learning CFI and CFII as a commercial pilot is there any solid argument as to wether or not you can claim your CFI or CFII training as flight time as an instructor? The obvious exception is in the R22 or R44 where an endorsement has to be given to the student before they can take the flight controls, and I don't think simply taking someone for a joy ride is officially flight training, but there does seem to be a grey area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trans Lift Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 I would say it is NOT instruction given when you are doing your CFI training. You are not an instructor and you are getting dual training. The instructor is the one that is giving instruction. You don't log 'instruction given' until you are a CFI. (How many times can I say instruction in 4 sentences? ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helibear Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Since part 119 seems to imply that you don't have to have a CFI/CFII in order to log instruction time, Part 119 only say's that flight training for hire(as commercial operation) can be conducted under Part 91 operating rules.I don't see where it implies that you don't have to be a CFI to instruct. Have a nice day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTC Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I agree you do need a Instructor raiting (or ATP in some specific internal training) to provide flight instruction. As stated above 119 is only saying that you do not have to be a part 135 operator/pilot to conduct training flights. Your CFI training prior to having an instructor raiting is dual received not dual given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carpenter Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 This is intresting! What about the flight time while adding the instrument rating to your flight instructor certificate? Could you log that time as instruction given? I'll look into this and ask around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r22butters Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 This is intresting! What about the flight time while adding the instrument rating to your flight instructor certificate? Could you log that time as instruction given? I'll look into this and ask around. To add the rating you'll probably need to log 'dual recieved', so it doesn't make much sense to also log it as 'dual given'? If your talking about adding the instrument instructor rating, my money is on, you have to be a CFII to log 'dual instument given'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trans Lift Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 This is how I look at it. If you are adding a rating, then you are receiving some sort of training and are therefore not the instructor. It is dual received not dual given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C of G Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 This may be a simple question but one I can't seem to find specified in the FAR. When can a CFI begin to claim flight time as "flight instruction given". Well, if your subconscious is telling you anything, it's that you can't log it until you are a CFI, being that you asked "When can a CFI begin to..." Other than that, I wouldn't say it really matters. As it is not regulatory, there is no definition, so just use your best judgment. As a part 135 trainer, I don't need to hold a CFI, but I can log all the training as instruction given. While working towards your CFI if you give instruction for some of your flight, you could make a argument that it is also instruction given, as you are giving instruction. Even if you are receiving it yourself. But how much time do you think you will really be spending giving instruction while working on your CFI qualification? if you think that 5 hours is gonna make a difference, go ahead, but honestly, I can't see where it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hovergirl Posted February 25, 2011 Report Share Posted February 25, 2011 I just always figured that you can log dual given if the person sitting next to you in the aircraft can (legally) log dual received. If they're not getting it, how can you be giving it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R22139RJ Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I log instruction given when a customer is logging dual received. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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