GI Bill for Part 61 School

[lougerig71]

Does anyone have any experience in getting their GI Bill approved for a Part 61 School. I talked with the school I'm hoping to get into and they told me it's not unheard of to get it approved but it's not always the case. Thanks for any info.

[gary-mike]

Does anyone have any experience in getting their GI Bill approved for a Part 61 School. I talked with the school I'm hoping to get into and they told me it's not unheard of to get it approved but it's not always the case. Thanks for any info.

 

As long as you are NOT using Ch33 benefits you can do it.

 

It can be done using Ch30. With ch30 though you will have to pay for your Private certificate out of pocket, any rating after that the VA will pay 60% and you pay 40%.

 

If you find a school that is associated with an IHL, and has a Part 141 certification, you can use CH33 and recieve 100% funding. As long as the flight training is credited towards a degree.

Edited August 9, 2011 by gary-mike

[rotorwashed]

gary-mike is correct, but it just changed. As of this month, you can use your ch33 benefits for flight training and use up to $10,000 per year for flight training. This is hardly anything if your planning on getting a helicopter rating though. Your best bet is to find a community college and do your training through a degree program.

[ADRidge]

gary-mike is correct, but it just changed. As of this month, you can use your ch33 benefits for flight training and use up to $10,000 per year for flight training. This is hardly anything if your planning on getting a helicopter rating though. Your best bet is to find a community college and do your training through a degree program.

 

I'm not familiar with VA benefits, but I will say that coupling your certificates with a degree program is definitely the way to go, as it will give you an excellent fall-back should you happen to have a rough time finding a job or eventually lose your medical.

[gary-mike]

gary-mike is correct, but it just changed. As of this month, you can use your ch33 benefits for flight training and use up to $10,000 per year for flight training. This is hardly anything if your planning on getting a helicopter rating though. Your best bet is to find a community college and do your training through a degree program.

 

Yeah, I forgot to add that. I looked into that but, like you said it isn't much. Since your GI bill is good for 36 months you would get $30,000. On top of that, you would have to drag your trainig out over them 3 years wich is going to mean more flight time/re-learning stuff and costing more money. When I did the math last time I believe it came out better if you just go with the Ch30 benefits. Plus you could use Ch30 at first then switch to Ch33 and possibly get an extra 12 months out of it.

 

Lougerg71, where are you? There are a few schools I know of that have degree programs. College of the Sequoias (look to the right of your screen for link), Salt Lake Community Collge/Upper Limit, Just to name a few. Find out where you want to train and search around for schools in the area. You may find one you like as much as the part 61 school you are looking at. If you play your cards right it could save you $40,000 or more out of pocket. Also search the training forum, there have been multiple threads on the subject, along with a ton of great information on picking the right school.

[CaptainDune]

Incorrect. Almost everything written about the changes to the GI bill is incorrect. I encourage everyone to read SB 3447 to fully understand the rules of the GI Bill improvement act.

 

Basically, you CAN use 10k directly to a flight school (if i remember correctly this is a 141 OR 61 school, but I don't know for sure on the 61 front). But it does NOT burn 12 months of benefits for that 10k. Its just limited to 10k per acedemic year.

 

As far as Ch. 33 in a PUBLIC flight school. It is still completely doable, when you are learning to fly via a degree program you are never actually a student of that flight school. You are only a student of the parenting college. The fees associated with the flight are just lab fees, not flight fees. The VA doesn't distinguish what the fees are associated with, they just approve the program and pay the amount approved each semester.

 

Having your flight training 100% paid for is still a very very real possibility. Where I am at currently (www.guidancehelicopters.com) we still have over 100 full time students, most of which are veterens doing it with no real out of pocket expenses.

 

Hope this helps.

[lougerig71]

Wow thanks for all the replies so quickly! I'm new to this so maybe I should give some more details so you don't have to guess so much. Sorry.

 

I am currently a Police Officer in Oregon and have been for the last about 5 years. The economy and political climate is making it difficult for us Officers to keep a job. My department is going thru layoffs now, so I've started to look for the next job. From my searching there is only about six openings in the state of Oregon and I know of 11 Officers that have lost their jobs in the last month just in this county. I've always been interested in flying a Heli and figure it might be time for a career change.

 

The reason I'm thinking of going to this 61 School is because they have a flexible schedule that will allow me to attend on my weekends (I work 3 on, 3 off),I wont get that from the local college. They will also guarantee me a job instructing or touring to get my hours up to 1000. They also provide Mountain flying, long line, and other training. Basically they train me to work for them for the next 2 years or so, if accepted.

 

I hope this helps you guys in your opinions. I'm planning on calling a VA Rep to assist in the GI Bill questions. Thanks again for all your help. Any and all insight is very much welcome.

[gary-mike]

Pretty much any school/instructor will let you set your schedule. As far as going through a college, the way most of them work is they give you credits for your certificates. (the college doesn't run the flight training)

[lougerig71]

I just did some looking into the flight school at the college. It's fixed wing only.

[gary-mike]

There are some programs up there in Oregon, not sure how close they are to you. One I know of is Hilsboro. Hillsboro Aviation

Edited August 10, 2011 by gary-mike

[rotorwashed]

I'm planning on calling a VA Rep to assist in the GI Bill questions.

 

Be careful who you call, alot of the VA reps at colleges and schools don't actually know anything about what you can and cannot do with the G.I. Bill. Usually they only know what they do, and so they tell you that it's the only way to do it so that they don't have to do something they arent used to.

 

Also, I would be very suspect of a school that supposedly guarantee's a job up to 1000 hours. They are just blowin smoke to get you to train at their school, which says alot about their operation.

 

You should look into Utah Valley State University's online program. Everything is online, so you can attend college from wherever you are and get 100% of your flight training fees covered at the school you choose. Plus housing and book allowance, which can add up (I get $1200 a month, and I only pay $300 a month rent). I haven't actually done this program, but I had some friends that did and they said it was fine, except that the program was clearly built around fixed-wing. This meant that they had to learn some things for the college classes that were irrelevant to them, and then spend more time outside the "classroom" to learn the things that were.

 

If you are ch33 I dont see how you could possibly manage to complete you flight training without the college. $10,000 per year? that will take you forever even if you get all your ratings at the minimum hours. Which I can personally guarantee won't happen if you have so much time in between each lesson.

 

If you are montgomery, i suppose its a different story, but its going to costing quite a bit out of your pocket. I dont know enough about the montgomery bill to comment on it though.

[Rogue]

As long as you are NOT using Ch33 benefits you can do it.

 

It can be done using Ch30. With ch30 though you will have to pay for your Private certificate out of pocket, any rating after that the VA will pay 60% and you pay 40%.

 

If you find a school that is associated with an IHL, and has a Part 141 certification, you can use CH33 and recieve 100% funding. As long as the flight training is credited towards a degree.

 

ABSOLUTELY NOT !!!!

 

in regards to Montgomery GI Bill -

 

The VA will NOT reimburse unless you go to a 141 school WITH a VA approved program. Been there got the Tshirt. ( mere 141 not enough )

 

Don't take my word for it, though I've lived through it. Call the VA, more knowledgeable then people give them credit for.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Rogue

[mechanic]

I believe Rogue is correct. The last I time reviewed all the VA Chap 30 GI Bill reg's, been awhile back though, only part 141 schools with a "APPROVED" program. Approved program means that the VA has reviewed each of the schools program/programs offered to Vets and they "VA" has signed off on each program and to include to the minimum amount of flight and ground school hours in each course.

 

A part 141 syllabus by itself does not qualify for VA approval. The VA can add more to it if they like to meet "THEIR" requirements, i.e.. MUST HAVE A PRIVATE LICENSE" prior to enrolling in a Commercial Course.

 

I realize that the younger guys are going to be Chap 33 only. I am a Chap 30 only guy..

 

If you do a search, esp with my name, you should find some links for Chap 30 VA manuals. Course like everything else the "Gov" may have changed the websites or locations of the manuals. Book G was a manual that had some good info in it.

 

Onecle, Title 38 Vet Bene's, just a quick search turned this up.

 

 

The terminology "was" Vocational Flight Training, like at a private flight school and Degree'd Program. They paid out different rates on those as well just like Chap 33 is doing it seems.

[silvrado17]

Always go to the reference source...

 

http://www.gibill.va.gov/resources/education_resources/programs/flight_training.html

 

As mentioned before...Part 141, VA approved.

 

New changes for 1 Oct will allow for Post 911 GI bill to be used at "non-college degree programs...such as..flight school programs (other than private)." As this is a new twist, be cautious of where you decide to go...everyone else will be learning the extent of the limitations along with you...

 

Links to upcoming changes....

http://www.gibill.va.gov/benefits/post_911_gibill/Post911_changes.html

http://www.gibill.va.gov/documents/letters/Student_Letter_PL_111-377.pdf

 

 

From personal experience using the MGIB for flight training...before you begin, and for the duration of, any training for which you expect to be financially reimbursed by the VA, ensure you have & maintain your second-class medical certificate.

 

While ultimately my responsibility, that $7800 lesson (in '93) was courtesy of the flight school's designated VA representative providing inaccurate information & guidance.

 

Keep up the good networking, but always have a documented reference and don't go on here-say.

Good Luck!

[mechanic]

silvrado17,

Good info. I am glad the VA Ed site has some clear info on it now. A few years back it was horrible....Very hard to find info on flight training and seemed to be a lot of different interpretations of it.

[Rogue]

Always go to the reference source...

 

http://www.gibill.va.gov/resources/education_resources/programs/flight_training.html

 

As mentioned before...Part 141, VA approved.

 

New changes for 1 Oct will allow for Post 911 GI bill to be used at "non-college degree programs...such as..flight school programs (other than private)." As this is a new twist, be cautious of where you decide to go...everyone else will be learning the extent of the limitations along with you...

 

Links to upcoming changes....

http://www.gibill.va.gov/benefits/post_911_gibill/Post911_changes.html

http://www.gibill.va.gov/documents/letters/Student_Letter_PL_111-377.pdf

 

 

From personal experience using the MGIB for flight training...before you begin, and for the duration of, any training for which you expect to be financially reimbursed by the VA, ensure you have & maintain your second-class medical certificate.

 

While ultimately my responsibility, that $7800 lesson (in '93) was courtesy of the flight school's designated VA representative providing inaccurate information & guidance.

 

Keep up the good networking, but always have a documented reference and don't go on here-say.

Good Luck!

 

Ditto on that experience, I also have that Tshirt but not to that amount !!! My God man that blows.

 

Long story short don't believe the school.... and also what is meant by approved programs is the actual course - a school can be approved for a Commercial course but not an Instrument or CFI.

 

What this amounts to is this - You go to an "approved" school's Professional Pilot course expecting to get reimbursed for ALL of the training only to find out NOPE wrong ! don't make that mistake either. EACH INDIVIDUAL course has to be approved.

Edited September 12, 2011 by Rogue

[Maggie]

Be careful who you call, alot of the VA reps at colleges and schools don't actually know anything about what you can and cannot do with the G.I. Bill. Usually they only know what they do, and so they tell you that it's the only way to do it so that they don't have to do something they arent used to.

 

You should look into Utah Valley State University's online program. Everything is online, so you can attend college from wherever you are and get 100% of your flight training fees covered at the school you choose. Plus housing and book allowance, which can add up (I get $1200 a month, and I only pay $300 a month rent). I haven't actually done this program, but I had some friends that did and they said it was fine, except that the program was clearly built around fixed-wing. This meant that they had to learn some things for the college classes that were irrelevant to them, and then spend more time outside the "classroom" to learn the things that were.

 

 

I actually applied to UVU, and when I talked to their VA representative, they told me that no one gets their flight training paid for, even the in house students. I thought that was very odd, and figured that if I had to talk to 5 different people to get the story, then I wouldn't want to attend their institution. I called on a Monday, and I had to call literally 20 different numbers just to have someone answer the phone. I inquired about it in August, so if something's changed, then it's very recent. I am not bashing the school, but that was my experience with them. Good luck.

 

And yes, a lot of "VA Reps" out there are only approving officials for Veteran students. They do not know the ins and outs (I mean come on, you call the VA and everyone tells you something different). That's not saying that all of them are like this, there are some very knowledgeable people out there on VA Benefits.

 

The GI Bill did change, and you can now use Ch. 33 any flight school that issues an FAA certificate, up to 10,000/yr. I understand this as using it for Part 61 also. I am planning on doing my CFI/II at a 61 school, but that won't be for another year or so, so hopefully, there will be clarification by then.

 

You can download the Post 9/11 GI Bill Fairness Act from the Library of Congress, then control find about the flight training if you want the exact wording.

[Fred0311]

Why not go to a 141 school and get the post 911 to pay 100% of everything and come away with an associates? I've found alot of schools that offer that.