Rogue Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Was thinking today... (yep, thats where the smoke was from...) and I know sometimes renter's have their own renter's insurance and CFIs sometimes have CFI insurance. I don't know a lot about insurance so I hope this makes sense. Could it be possible for a commercial pilot to carry insurance to lessen the liability on the company he works for ? What brings this to mind is how people seem to get stuck at that 200 hour point (I have a friend that is) and can't seem to get a job because they don't have 400 or 500 hours required to get it. The reason given is always insurance, so what if a 200 hour pilot could take out a policy to cover that difference ? To me it was like my career as an auto mechanic, sometimes I had to buy tools to complete certain jobs. Thoughts ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 An operator told me once that if things work out this season he'll let me fly tours over the summer in the 206. Having only 400 hours I asked, "What about the insurance issue?" He said he can hire whomever he wants, its not up to his insurance company. Sometimes I wonder if employers just use that "insurance" excuse as a polite way of just saying, we don't want to hire you, go away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 Was thinking today... (yep, thats where the smoke was from...) and I know sometimes renter's have their own renter's insurance and CFIs sometimes have CFI insurance. I don't know a lot about insurance so I hope this makes sense. Could it be possible for a commercial pilot to carry insurance to lessen the liability on the company he works for ? What brings this to mind is how people seem to get stuck at that 200 hour point (I have a friend that is) and can't seem to get a job because they don't have 400 or 500 hours required to get it. The reason given is always insurance, so what if a 200 hour pilot could take out a policy to cover that difference ? To me it was like my career as an auto mechanic, sometimes I had to buy tools to complete certain jobs. Thoughts ? It depends on the type of policy they have. A common policy is issued by Pathfinder, and it does have certain pilot limitations (300 hours I think). Other policies are open, they cost more, but the owner can "choose" whatever pilot he wants. Expect more scrutiny and a checkride with these operators.Another policy may allow only specific "named" pilots. If all the named pilots have 4000 hours, the insurance is going to be cheaper. As soon as they "name" a pilot with 200 hours, expect an increase! To your other point, yes insurance is available for all kinds of pilot stuff...check out XInsurance. com. However most policies protect the insured (the pilot) and not the company they work for. Fly safe, Goldy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Posted March 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Yes I know anyone can insure anyone they want. I was just trying to think outside the box. I see the 200 - 400 hour gap being a big obstacle right now to to new pilots. I guess the point is - if the pilot's lawyer paid for by the pilot's insurance stepped in if God forbid something happened then that could/would ease the burden on the company ? Or in the case of Pathfinder insurance the 200 - 300 hour gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 It sounds like your friend is just another one of those people who didn't listen when they warned him that he was training for a career that is bursting at the seems with newbies trying to get in? Now he's looking for any hook he can use to try and stand out from the crowd! Good luck with that!,...and 400 hours ain't no magic number either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Posted March 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 It sounds like your friend is just another one of those people who didn't listen when they warned him that he was training for a career that is bursting at the seems with newbies trying to get in? So because some person said sometime somewhere with no valid data to back it up, someone should not follow their dreams ? (rhetorical question if it wasn't obvious) Now he's looking for any hook he can use to try and stand out from the crowd! Isn't everbody ? (again... rhetorical)Good luck with that!,...and 400 hours ain't no magic number either!Well, as it stands there have been several jobs on the JH job forum with 400 - 500 hour minimums in the past few months, which compared to previous years is actually a lot. Look, this isn't about my buddy. This is about making this industry as a whole better. Be a part of it or don't (and by don't I mean don't post in thread). Good day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Well, as it stands there have been several jobs on the JH job forum with 400 - 500 hour minimums in the past few months, which compared to previous years is actually a lot. From what I have seen there are more opportunites out there now for a 200 hour guy than in the past. There is an ag job posted right now that only requires 200 hours and a tour job that requires 300. So my general impression is that some of the low time hour required jobs may be more available. Sounds like your impression is the opposite. I don't track these things so I have no real data one way or the other. I do know that most of the career type helicopter jobs require an instrument rating, whereas 5 years ago they didn't and 10 years ago it was all but unheard of. The best bet for a low time guy is either instruction or tours. Find some R44 tour operators and keep in touch with them. The guys that hire low time pilots have a lot of turnover as you would expect once the pilot reaches 500, 750 or 1000 hours. The insurance is an intriguing idea, but I don't think the premium dollars would make sense in such a low paying job. There are some other "out of the box" ways of getting time....most are relationship based. Goldy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Posted March 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Guess my buddy is looking in the wrong place - http://www.justhelicopters.com/tabid/255/category/1/Default.aspx - 1 "low time" job with 400 hour minimums and 4 "low time" jobs with 500 hour minimums. I've been out of the job hunting market for a while now, maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks, where are you seeing these jobs at ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 So because some person said sometime somewhere with no valid data to back it up, someone should not follow their dreams ? (rhetorical question if it wasn't obvious) Isn't everbody ? (again... rhetorical) Well, as it stands there have been several jobs on the JH job forum with 400 - 500 hour minimums in the past few months, which compared to previous years is actually a lot. Look, this isn't about my buddy. This is about making this industry as a whole better. Be a part of it or don't (and by don't I mean don't post in thread). Good day. Sorry, I was wrong. There's actually a pilot shortage and this is the best time to follow your dream! Tell your friend to get personal insurance from pathfinder because that will definitely help him stand out and get hired (although there's no reason to stand out because jobs are everywhere)! Fear not, I will no longer tarnish your wonderful thread with my harsh negativity! Good day to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Posted March 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) Sorry, I was wrong. There's actually a pilot shortage and this is the best time to follow your dream! Tell your friend to get personal insurance from pathfinder because that will definitely help him stand out and get hired (although there's no reason to stand out because jobs are everywhere)! Fear not, I will no longer tarnish your wonderful thread with my harsh negativity! Good day to you. too late you made it through the sarcasm filter. seriously, was there any point at all to your post other than to show how big your epeen is ? seriously ? not rhetorical, seriously ? (though at this point I don't think you know what rhetorical means) since only Captain Obvious statements seem to come from your mouth I guess only Captain Obvious statement will do... I want to help my friend wouldn't you ? I want to make the industry better don't you ? Its just an idea for jimminy crickets sake get your panties out of a wad, there was never a "good time" to get in this business, no sane helicopter pilot tells any other helicopter pilot to get into this business. If my buddy is a dipwad then so are you and everyone else who ever pursued a dream. Edited March 11, 2013 by Rogue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) Yes I know anyone can insure anyone they want. I was just trying to think outside the box. I see the 200 - 400 hour gap being a big obstacle right now to to new pilots. I guess the point is - if the pilot's lawyer paid for by the pilot's insurance stepped in if God forbid something happened then that could/would ease the burden on the company ? Or in the case of Pathfinder insurance the 200 - 300 hour gap. Low-timers have been trying to think of ways to bust in forever. Nuttin new here and all of the “ways” have already been thought of. The fact remains; there is no box to think outside of. A pilot becomes qualified by gaining certification and then builds time anyway they can and, that’s the way it is. Furthermore, the additional cost to cover a 200 hour pilot over a 400 hour pilot is negligible and shouldn’t be viewed as a “gap”. Low-time is low-time no matter how you slice it….. It’s been said many, many times. If an applicant sits back and only applies when he or she meets the advertised requirements then the road to success will be long and hard. Employers can and will employ pilots who do not meet requirements and do have the power to employ just about anyone they want (within reason). With that said, with entry level positions, the time in the book has little to do with being hired. Meaning; you should apply “outside the box” thinking to a marketing strategy to get the employer to want to hire YOU over everyone else, regardless of your total time. Edited March 11, 2013 by Spike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity173 Posted March 11, 2013 Report Share Posted March 11, 2013 Sorry, I was wrong. There's actually a pilot shortage and this is the best time to follow your dream! Tell your friend to get personal insurance from pathfinder because that will definitely help him stand out and get hired (although there's no reason to stand out because jobs are everywhere)! Fear not, I will no longer tarnish your wonderful thread with my harsh negativity! Good day to you. If there is one, there won't be for long. With all the pilots that were pushed through Rucker during the height of of GWOT, they're starting to get out now. Also, these days there are a bunch of guys getting forced out by getting passed over for promotion. Soon they'll be on the streets competing for those less than 2,000 hr jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Posted March 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Low-timers have been trying to think of ways to bust in forever. Nuttin new here and all of the “ways” have already been thought of. The fact remains; there is no box to think outside of. A pilot becomes qualified by gaining certification and then builds time anyway they can and, that’s the way it is. Furthermore, the additional cost to cover a 200 hour pilot over a 400 hour pilot is negligible and shouldn’t be viewed as a “gap”. Low-time is low-time no matter how you slice it….. It’s been said many, many times. If an applicant sits back and only applies when he or she meets the advertised requirements then the road to success will be long and hard. Employers can and will employ pilots who do not meet requirements and do have the power to employ just about anyone they want (within reason). With that said, with entry level positions, the time in the book has little to do with being hired. Meaning; you should apply “outside the box” thinking to a marketing strategy to get the employer to want to hire YOU over everyone else, regardless of your total time. Roger that, though I can say for certain that a real good friend of mine is a Chief Pilot and... well on one hand he appreciates someone trying to break in some how some way on the other hand the ability to follow simple directions and the fact that you sent in an application anyhow even though you don't meet the minimums and wasted his time.... I guess I have to take your word for it on the insurance, as I've never been in the position to price out insurance for various levels of experience. Though that was kind of the point of the original post - since I don't know a whole lot about Insurance I was looking for some real information about Insurance. As I said in my mind, it was just like buying another tool for my toolbox when I was a mechanic. As it stands I was just trying to help my friend and if it helps him it could possibly help others. I was able to assist a couple of friends in the path I took and gave a good word for them where I used to work. Unfortunately for the other friend, those positions are all taken. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Roger that, though I can say for certain that a real good friend of mine is a Chief Pilot and... well on one hand he appreciates someone trying to break in some how some way on the other hand the ability to follow simple directions and the fact that you sent in an application anyhow even though you don't meet the minimums and wasted his time.... This is where the “within reason” comes in. Having no R22 time and applying for a R22 CFI job would not be reasonable and sure, a waste of time. However, having only 300 hours and applying for a job which requires 400 hours, IMO, is not a waste of the CP’s time. Especially, if the applicant is appropriately motivated and brings something else to the table…. And, that "something else" may be an A&P certificate but most certainly isn’t another lawyer….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) It sounds like your friend is just another one of those people who didn't listen when they warned him that he was training for a career that is bursting at the seems with newbies trying to get in? Now he's looking for any hook he can use to try and stand out from the crowd! Good luck with that!,...and 400 hours ain't no magic number either! You can add a couple Army dogs to the list of people who are finding out that there is no pilot shortage! I just talked to an Army Captain who was finishing up his 6th year and just passed 700hrs TT. Hes been sending out resumes all over the place and cant even get an interview in the GOM. During that conversation, a CWO3 sauntered over and joined in. He was coming up on about 850ish. He was asking me what I would recommend. My recommendation was to get his butt down to the local flight school and learn to fly an R22 and start teaching! He actually looked at me like I was crazy. But hey.... I not the guy looking for the job. Either that or do another few more years. Dudes have mad skills Im sure........ but i think its the lack of a 4 digit number at the bottom of their PIC column thats hurting them. Edited March 13, 2013 by Flying Pig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity173 Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 You can add a couple Army dogs to the list of people who are finding out that there is no pilot shortage! I just talked to an Army Captain who was finishing up his 6th year and just passed 700hrs TT. Hes been sending out resumes all over the place and cant even get an interview in the GOM. During that conversation, a CWO3 sauntered over and joined in. He was coming up on about 850ish. He was asking me what I would recommend. My recommendation was to get his butt down to the local flight school and learn to fly an R22 and start teaching! He actually looked at me like I was crazy. But hey.... I not the guy looking for the job. Either that or do another few more years. Dudes have mad skills Im sure........ but i think its the lack of a 4 digit number at the bottom of their PIC column thats hurting them. The Captain I can understand. 700-800 hrs is about what they can expect after 6 yrs. Out of all the commission guys I knew, not a one went on to fly civilian. They just don't get enough hours in the Army to do it. Now the CW3 with 850ish. Don't know how he became a CW3 and only got 850. That's a bit odd. Must have spent a crap load of time in staff positions and avoided flying like the plague. Either way it's his own fault. I flew 875 hrs in one deployment. I know CW2s getting out soon that just hit the 2,000 hr mark after 6 yrs. All it takes is a couple of deployments during that 6 yrs and you're set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Pig Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Is there an avenue for a Captain to convert over to a WO? I thought he said something about turning in his bars and becoming WO in order to fly more. Maybe he was joking and I didnt get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity173 Posted March 14, 2013 Report Share Posted March 14, 2013 Is there an avenue for a Captain to convert over to a WO? I thought he said something about turning in his bars and becoming WO in order to fly more. Maybe he was joking and I didnt get it. Yep. It's rare but he can do it. Seen a few at Rucker that were previous commission guys. I've seen it the other way around in most cases though. Some guys don't care about the flying part so much. They just want to "lead soldiers." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) The Captain I can understand. 700-800 hrs is about what they can expect after 6 yrs. 700-800 hours is a tough place to be. Cons of military flying- usually low hours, all turbine, may not have FAA CFI certs, maybe no training experience, all time with a SIC or as the SIC, so very little time with just you in the helo. Pros-Training second to none, lots of turbine time, prob lots of NVG time and usually pretty squared away as an individual. With 800 hours I would find any way to fly whatever I can to get to 1000, then jump into a tour company for one year, and go on from there. I'm not a military to civilian trained guy this is just what I have learned having a few conversations with guys coming out of the military. On the other hand, I know guys who have 2K plus hours, do check rides for their unit and move into some great and very well paying jobs. One buddy took a great job just last week at HAI. Edited March 15, 2013 by Goldy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supergokougt Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 https://www.justhelicopters.com/tabid/255/category/1/Default.aspx old city is posting hopefully the search comes across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot#476398 Posted March 15, 2013 Report Share Posted March 15, 2013 https://www.justheli.../1/Default.aspx old city is posting hopefully the search comes across. They usually post two to three times a year. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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