Transitioning from military to civilian

[CharyouTree]

So...here I am again. Last time I asked this question was 3 years ago, and I was yet again deployed. Fortunately I happened upon a stint down at the training site (Ft Rucker) for a while before being called back to my home unit (I'm national guard) for the deployment I'm currently on.

 

Here's my deal:

 

I'm currently sitting at ..1205 hours, total time; 1100 or so in the UH-60A/L, and some more in a TH-67 (Bell 206), and about 200 in full motion simulators. +500 as a PiC, as the army logs it.

 

I've been through the instructor pilot course, and have my CFII, as well as through the "tactical operations officer" course, but I don't know if that has any specific translations outside of government contracting, or LE.

 

As I said, I'm currently deployed until the beginning of the new year (we got cut significantly short, which is good for going home, bad for accruing flight time), so no going to Las Vegas for me, yet again, this year.

 

 

 

My biggest question is how should I go about applying for jobs, particularly while I'm still deployed? I want to be considered for positions, and be visible on the radar (ha) of companies that are hiring, but at the same time

a) I don't want to waste their time, or possibly put myself in a bad light by being unavailable if my some stroke of luck my application was enough to get me looked at, and

I'm going to hopefully be adding some more time to my logbook at what is generally considered to be an important time, as far as I can tell. (Just over 1000 hours, and for a particular job I'm looking at, they want 1200 total). Is it ok for me to submit these applications being just over those bare minimums, or am I better off waiting until I can add another...200 hours on to that total?

 

Suggestions, advice, and of course job openings, are always welcome.

 

-Mike

[Wally]

Your post is confusing as to your pilot experience, "1205 hours" and then "(Just over 1000 hours, and for a particular job I'm looking at, they want 1200 total)."

 

If I had a specific position for which I was qualified, I would start chasing leads to contact within that company.

Edited October 14, 2013 by Wally

[CharyouTree]

Your post is confusing as to your pilot experience, "1205 hours" and then "(Just over 1000 hours, and for a particular job I'm looking at, they want 1200 total)."

 

If I had a specific position for which I was qualified, I would start chasing leads to contact within that company.

 

Sorry... trying to cover a lot of bases at once.

 

I have 1205 hours. The job I'm interested in has a 1200 minimum, so I'm qualified, but only just barely. I was planning on contacting them, but was wondering what the consensus is on being "barely" qualified.

[Flying Pig]

Total time isn't everything. How many 1201hr R22 drivers are going to be putting in for this job you are looking at coming in with 1100 twin turbine? Just get out there and do it. Applying for jobs and getting denied doesn't affect your credit score or anything!

[Mikemv]

CharyouTree,

 

I would ask not only your total time but total PIC?

 

Do you have a civilian log book that shows PIC?

 

How much total PIC time can you bring to the resume?

 

Is the 1200 hours required total time?

 

Is there a required total PIC time?

 

All of the operators at Heli Success will want to know total PIC time and want more than 500 hours.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Mike

[CharyouTree]

CharyouTree,

 

I would ask not only your total time but total PIC?

 

Do you have a civilian log book that shows PIC?

 

How much total PIC time can you bring to the resume?

 

Is the 1200 hours required total time?

 

Is there a required total PIC time?

 

All of the operators at Heli Success will want to know total PIC time and want more than 500 hours.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Mike

Mike,

 

I've got 482 hours PC, according to my military records. My version of it anyway, that I keep in an excel sheet, and it shouldn't be off from my records by more than a few hours that were lost here and there. All of my time is flying two pilot aircraft, and I've only ever counted the time that I've logged as being the person who "signed for" the aircraft, with a few exceptions where I was being evaluated as a PC by an instructor. It's the most legitimate way I can show the time. If there are other, acceptable ways of counting PiC time as a military pilot that would increase it, I'd be glad to know. As I filled out this recent application, I counted my "PC" time as PiC and my "PI" and "CP" time as SiC.

 

The only requirement listed, other than a HS diploma was "Completion of 1200 helicopter flight hours as an FAA licensed pilot." There is nothing else specifically listed for times, though the supplemental questionnaire did have me fill in turbine, piston, multi-engine turbine, PiC, SiC, etc. hours, and last date flown in each category.

 

Realistically, I will have more than 500 hours PiC time in the next 2-3 months. I could get that last 18 hours next week, if I'm on the schedule.

 

-Mike

Edited October 15, 2013 by CharyouTree

[Mikemv]

CharyouTree,

 

I wish you well in getting the position.

 

It reads like some HR or non-knowing person wrote the requirements.

 

Most employers/insurance want more PIC time.

 

Best wishes,

 

Mikemv

[stace]

If you haven't done it yet, you should really attend the Heli-Expo, HeliSuccess and a Military to Civilian Transition Workshop (preferrably all of these)! I've attached a link for the Workshop coming up in Anaheim (its free), but HeliSuccess is a great option for you as well!

 

Military helicopter pilots or mechanics that would eventually like to enter the civil helicopter industry…should attend the Helicopter Association International’s (HAI) Military to Civilian Transition Workshop.

This is a free Helicopter Pilot Career Development course at the 2014 Heli-Expo in Anaheim, CA on Feb 24th from 8am-12pm.

https://www.rotor.org/Events/HELIEXPO2014/ProfessionalEducation/CoursesataGlance/MilitarytoCivilianTransitionWorkshop.aspx

We will cover essential topics for military aviators who want to continue their aviation careers in the civil helicopter community:

- Networking, résumé writing, and interview tips
- Use of the GI Bill, civilian certifications, and overview of the federal aviation regulations
- Common stumbling points for military aviators in the civilian world
- Meet professional in aviation that successfully made the transition and want to help mentor you towards success!

[CharyouTree]

Thanks, Stace. I'll be at heli expo, and the class you mentioned.

 

I've got an interview on the 11th, and I'm hoping that turns out well. Just hoping that it doesn't interfere with my ability to attend; if it does, I guess I can't complain.

[Joe_P148]

Keep in mind Charyou that the conversion from PC time in the UH-60L is a little funky to PIC time in the civilian world.

 

Also, there do you have any combat time?

 

Customs and border patrol has a multiplier for military TT pilots FYI, might want to look into that.

 

Some people have talked about multiplying their hours as well, considering that the definition of logging flying time in the civilian world is different then our AR95-1.

 

The following Link has that thread.

http://helicopterforum.verticalreference.com/topic/17725-converting-military-to-civilian-hours/

 

Sell yourself, use your experiences to make yourself look valuable. Good Luck! Let us know how it goes.

[CharyouTree]

Keep in mind Charyou that the conversion from PC time in the UH-60L is a little funky to PIC time in the civilian world.

 

Also, there do you have any combat time?

 

Customs and border patrol has a multiplier for military TT pilots FYI, might want to look into that.

 

Some people have talked about multiplying their hours as well, considering that the definition of logging flying time in the civilian world is different then our AR95-1.

 

The following Link has that thread.

http://helicopterforum.verticalreference.com/topic/17725-converting-military-to-civilian-hours/

 

Sell yourself, use your experiences to make yourself look valuable. Good Luck! Let us know how it goes.

Yes, Lindsey actually helped me out with the time logging, and conversions, and a (easy to read, clear cut, unambiguous) source from the FAA...Shocker, I know. I've kept my total time as is, and if I need to ask a specific company if there's a multiplier, than I will. Bigger for me was the conversion of PIC time, as I had previously only counted PC time as PIC and everything else was SIC. I bumped my PIC time up by a few hundred hours, now at 875. I've got 230 combat, and 210 imminent danger (thank you, deployment to Kuwait...), for what that may be worth.

 

I've got my interview with Maryland State Police on Tuesday, and I'm going to do my best to sell myself... I'll be sure to keep you guys updated. I understand I may know by the end of the day if they're going to offer me the position, so that's nice.

[CharyouTree]

Well, the interview went great. I practically had a start date in a few weeks. However, the polygraph came up that I was being deceptive, which was not the case. (I told the brutal truth on every piece of paper that put at me, and every question asked during the polygraph process.) So, no job for me just yet. Hopefully some networking at Heli Expo will lead somewhere.

[Flying Pig]

That's to bad. I've done 8 polygraphs in my career. I do believe 100% that they detect the fight or flight response as they say but that doesn't mean you are lying. I've never not moved on from one, but I have had the guy ask me about some responses were I showed a "response".

 

So they did the employment interview and the poly at the same time?

Edited February 13, 2014 by Flying Pig

[CharyouTree]

That's to bad. I've done 8 polygraphs in my career. I do believe 100% that they detect the fight or flight response as they say but that doesn't mean you are lying. I've never not moved on from one, but I have had the guy ask me about some responses were I showed a "response".

 

So they did the employment interview and the poly at the same time?

Yeah, that's the thing... I didn't feel "fight or flight" in the least. I was completely unconcerned, as I've never done drugs in my life. I got a retest right after he gave me the news that I failed the first one, with slightly different questions, but the same result on the important ones regarding drug use.

 

Needless to say I'm pretty disappointed. It really seemed like a great career, and a great fit for me, but...

 

Yeah, I finished the interview, and then immediately drove an hour North (the guy I was supposed to do the poly with was out sick), and did the poly.

 

I can only imagine now that I'll never be able to pass that question because it's going to instantly make me nervous that I'm going to fail needlessly again once they ask those relevant questions...

[Joe_P148]

That sounds a bit ridiculous man, I'm sorry it didn't workout.

[JoshuaDC]

Hello everyone, Need some advice. im currently active duty in the coast guard, have barely any college. Im not into my Rate/job anymore (sitting at a desk) i figure if i stay in with what im doing ill die a hell of a lot sooner then id hope to. I thought about what i wanted to do with my self (look into my past) and being a Helicopter pilot was the winner. contract ends OCT 2015 but rotation date is JULY 2015. Hoping they keep me till October so i can save more money, and so my Girlfriend can finish her masters to join me in FL. Question is ...

 

1) how bad of an idea is it to go use my GI bill at west palm beach state, do an AA in the aeronautical science program and go to flight school as part of the program. Get the CFI at the end of it.

 

2) im thinking if flying as a civilian doesn't work out where i can barely live on it i could try to fly in the military.

 

3) should i just try to get into the army WARRANT program once i get out? since you have to have 12 months left in contract if you want to try and switch branches while in.

 

I know its not easy to get a decent job flying as a civilian and being in the military im pretty much set with finances and am taken care of so i still have that tiny fear of getting out, but every time i think of life as a civilian and or see a helicopter in the sky i cant help but be reminded of how bad i want to fly or be free, and how unhappy i am at my current job. Im so far registered with the college.

 

24 years old as of MAY, active duty 5 years this October.

[ospreydriver]

If you aren't completely burnt out on the military, have you considered finishing school and applying for one of the officer programs with an aviation guarantee? The Marine Corps, at least, will let you do OCS on an aviation contract. The Navy does that too, as well. 8 year contract at winging without debt from the flight training. I'm not a cheerleader for the military, but at least it will get you started.

[JoshuaDC]

Excuse the late reply, i wouldnt have debt though because i would be using the post 9/11 gi bill. I was not aware however of the navy or marine programs with guaranteed aviation contracts. Ill have to look that up and see what i find out. Going back in the military would deff be a plan B however and i would reallly prefer to be a pilot in it. Thanks for the advice, all is welcomed

[JoshuaDC]

I forgot to mention osprey, do you like flying as a marine? Do they have you do alot of jobs other than flying? Do you think looking into flying as a marine instead of another branch is a good idea, i know you gave probably only flown in that branch

[ospreydriver]

I can only say it's better than the Navy!

 

I've never met a disgruntled Coastie pilot, so there's that.

 

The Air Force has very few helos. I work in a joint unit with USAF V-22 pilots. I like them, but they are very rule oriented. Coming from a Marine, that's saying something.

 

Against the Army, I think a Marine pilot is better off early in his career. Later the Marine is expected to do more "career broadening" than his Army counterpart, and the Army becomes a better deal from a flying standpoint. That's vs. an Army warrant. Versus Army commissioned officers, the Army officer is way screwed from the get-go--no comparison, IMHO.

 

The plus of the military is that everything is paid for. My recommendation is to do one tour in the Marines or Coast Guard and then GTFO while you're still young and not jaded.