Squawks

[Little Red 22]

Is there a limit on the number of squawks that can be made on the same issue or equipment before it has to be inspected/serviced? I think I read somewhere that the operator had to respond after 2 squawks, but can't find the reference.

 

Thanks

[Joe_P148]

Squawk in reference to what? Transponder?

[WolftalonID]

Hahaha thats funny....I am sure he means what we all know it to mean...a squawk to the mechanics to take a look see about something not quite right or just down right F'ed up by the last guy who we saw running to his car after full down training was over!

Edited February 9, 2014 by WolftalonID

[Little Red 22]

During my flight training I once discovered the R22 MR gearbox was filled too full of lubricating fluid (according to the preflight checklist), so I squawked it. Not knowing the limits of how much excess lubricant was considered acceptable I thought a mechanic should check it out. I ended up squawking it twice before the flight school responded, with the result that the MR gearbox was drained of the excess, which also stopped the students from squawking.

 

I've learned a lot from my flight school mechanic since then, but do wonder how long discrepancies are allowed to go unaddressed. Is there a regulatory limit?

[apiaguy]

There is no regulatory requirement for a squawk to be addressed... If the discrepancy makes the aircraft unairworthy then it would have to be fixed before the next flight.

Squawk too much and everyone gets annoyed. Know your aircraft and some basic limits. Everything else you'll have to consult the maintenance manual or discuss with your maintenance department

[Mikemv]

Suzie & All,

 

APIA Guy gives great guidance above. I add some guidance in that: put maintenance issues on maintenance staff. Ask questions about your concerns both prior to and after a flight. Ask how to correctly write up a squawk.

 

Suzie,

 

For clarification and info to learn from for all,

 

Was the fluid level high after the flight according to a pre-flight check list?

 

If the level was high prior to the flight, was the aircraft flown anyway? Who made this decision? How was the decision made?

 

At what point did you first talk with maintenance?

 

Was the aircraft flown after your write up? How many times and by whom?

 

Was your second write up after another flight?

 

All of these questions address interaction with maintenance prior to and after flights and decisions or NOT by pilots to go fly or not!

 

See you at Heli Expo.

 

Mike

[rick1128]

Apiaguy is correct. One thing you will see is that maintenance will fix a squawk by doing something and sign it off, only to have the problem still occur. What I have done after this has happened 3 or more times is when I write the problem up is I note the number of times the problem has been written up previously. I don't do this with tires and the like and I limit myself to the number of times it has been written up in THAT particular logbook. A note like 'Forth write up' is a red flag to maintenance and to the FAA maintenance folks. I do suggest you use it with care as it is also likely that you will have a talk with the chief pilot. I'd would save this for something important.

[pilot#476398]

Speaking of squawks, I've flown a lot of 22s and if there's one common issue, its the compass light. Its almost always just half lit up. How come no one ever seems to fix that?

[Wally]

The blessings of being Part 135! If a discrepancy is written up, maintenance has to clear it by checking it and fixing or deferring IAW an approved MEL.

 

If you don't like it, don't fly it. Don't fly it to where it can be fixed. Don't fly it to a more convenient place to ground it. If you don't like it, don't fly it, period.

Write it up until it's fixed, but if you don't like it don't fly it.

Maintenance may be expensive for the owner. It can be much more expensive to the pilot, one way or the other.

A&P mechanics generally aren't killed by their mistakes. Pilots are. I can't tell you how many discrepancies I've had signed off as CND (could not duplicate). Or were intermittent, or never recurred.
Be wrong on the ground applies to maintenance as well as weather.

[aeroscout]

Whatever you do don't write a discrepancy about something that can be rectified by simple switchology. Mechanics love to hold that over a pilot's head as a rookie mistake.

Example...

Transponder inop.

Mechanic action....selected on/off switch to on.

[Gomer Pylot]

For Part 135, if something is written in the logbook, the aircraft can't fly until the discrepancy is cleared. It can be cleared by MEL, or by maintenance action, or by writing that the entry was in error. I've done all the above at one time or another. I don't write anything unless I'm sure there is a discrepancy, and that it's serious. Some things I just ignore, like miscellaneous lights, and other things that don't actually affect airworthiness. I'll tell the mechanic about it when it's convenient, and we'll get it fixed whenever the aircraft is out of service for more serious maintenance or inspection. But if it affects airworthiness, there is nothing to do but write it up and deal with it. Just make sure you know what you're doing, and don't write stuff that isn't really wrong. I make it a practice to talk to the mechanic before committing pen to paper, but I know the mechanic and he knows me. Not everyone has that luxury.

[Jaybee]

That seems to be the issue here, student pilot doesn't really know what is ok and not ok to defer.

 

While at Bristow Academy, they took things like these as a learning opportunity and they would have a mechanic come out to the helicopter with you and teach you about it, why it is or isn't ok, etc, etc,.

[Little Red 22]

Hello Mikemv!

 

In response to your questions, I was with my instructor at the time on a training flight. The R22 had flown since the 100 hour service but I have no idea how many flights, maybe a few. I discovered the fluid level discrepancy during my preflight. My CFI did not think the fluid level discrepancy was serious, but he used it as an lesson opportunity for me to act on my own judgement and so I squawked it. I wanted to learn how "Squawks" work. The first lesson I learned is to never squawk anything AFTER the aircraft has just had 100 hour service! Mechanics will hate you, LOL! I was forgiven since I was a student. But I'm afraid my reputation followed me. Now all the mechanics ask me to inspect aircraft BEFORE they take them apart.

 

I also talked to several engineers and mechanics about the "high" lubricating level indication after that flight. I flew it twice that way, with my CFi, before it was corrected. I should get college credit for what I learned!

Edited February 11, 2014 by Little Red 22

[Wally]

Hello Mikemv!

 

In response to your questions, I was with my instructor at the time on a training flight. The R22 had flown since the 100 hour service but I have no idea how many flights, maybe a few. I discovered the fluid level discrepancy during my preflight. My CFI did not think the fluid level discrepancy was serious, but he used it as an lesson opportunity for me to act on my own judgement and so I squawked it. I wanted to learn how "Squawks" work. The first lesson I learned is to never squawk anything AFTER the aircraft has just had 100 hour service! Mechanics will hate you, LOL! I was forgiven since I was a student. But I'm afraid my reputation followed me. Now all the mechanics ask me to inspect aircraft BEFORE they take them apart.

 

I also talked to several engineers and mechanics about the "high" lubricating level indication after that flight. I flew it twice that way, with my CFi, before it was corrected. I should get college credit for what I learned!

 

That's pretty hard cheese, I guess, and I don't care if somebody hates me for doing my job. And, I don't respect anyone that doesn't want to do theirs.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Wally

[WolftalonID]

When mechanics act like asses because you sqwawk an issue right after a tear down.... Kick em in the empty sack!!!! The MOST vital preflight I have ever done and will continue to do as such is the first flight after mechanical work is done...... They get busy too...and are human....and forget to finish sh*t!!!

 

Our mechanics are very cool about pilots asking for things to be right.... We depend on their cooperation to live long enough to get home everyday!

 

Like this photo I took to prove it....and Realllllyyyyy sad part is my CFI and I were the THIRD CFI/Student combo that day to fly it after the schedualed maintenence. It was during my commercial training.

Edited February 12, 2014 by WolftalonID

[Mikemv]

Hello Mikemv!

 

In response to your questions, I was with my instructor at the time on a training flight. The R22 had flown since the 100 hour service but I have no idea how many flights, maybe a few. I discovered the fluid level discrepancy during my preflight. My CFI did not think the fluid level discrepancy was serious, but he used it as an lesson opportunity for me to act on my own judgement and so I squawked it. I wanted to learn how "Squawks" work. The first lesson I learned is to never squawk anything AFTER the aircraft has just had 100 hour service! Mechanics will hate you, LOL! I was forgiven since I was a student. But I'm afraid my reputation followed me. Now all the mechanics ask me to inspect aircraft BEFORE they take them apart.

 

I also talked to several engineers and mechanics about the "high" lubricating level indication after that flight. I flew it twice that way, with my CFi, before it was corrected. I should get college credit for what I learned!

 

Suzie,

 

Thanks for your response.

 

There is some good info I want to bring forward here. Many gear boxes will state their capacity in the MM. Some might list something like 6.8 quarts. Some will give specs if you change the associated filter element at the time of service. Some gear box levels are "within 15 minutes of shutdown".

 

My A&Ps/IAs would always under service slightly and then adjust to the desired level after a run up/warm up of fluids. We also established actual cc amounts and recorded them to stop seal leakage and/or weepage. Granted this was not on Robinson products and was on Bell or EC airframes and shows the importance of proper procedures and also some Industry Best Practices.

 

I hope to see you and hubby in Anaheim.

 

Mike

Edited February 15, 2014 by Mikemv