VA accredited programs May 2014 +

[troll.detector]

100k or more and how many complete the program and the degree? I heard as low as 5%. So do the math- how much does it cost the va to get that 5% success rate?

 

I hear too many va students just want to have fun flying with no real career apparitions. Don't close the program down, just get the va students to put some skin in the game to get the success rate up. Maybe 90/10 split of costs covered by va?

[troll.detector]

Math --> 100 students at $100,000 = $100,000,000 divide by 5 students that actually succeed = $20,000,000. TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS! per success! Value for money?

[JohnLeePettimore]

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there, troll.detector. At least partially. As far as the value for the money per success, it's not an investment by VA. It's a benefit that veterans earned, which brings me to the next point where I disagree.

You say that having the veterans pay a split would have them "put some skin in the game." What exactly would you consider the years that the veterans put in which earned them the benefits? The costs involved are not all monetary. As a veteran, I have put in 12 years. During that time, I've lived on miserable pay with long separations from home in combat zones where not all of my friends made it back, and even fewer made it back intact. My first deployment cost me my first marriage, and my second deployment almost cost me my second marriage. The health care that I got was second rate (they decided it wasn't worth it to take the tumor out of my head, because I guess it wouldn't look sexy enough on camera when compared to my brothers in arms that lost limbs over there.) If that isn't having skin in the game, then why would paying 10% of the cost make any more of a difference?

I also have to disagree with your math. VA does not pay in advance for the whole training program. If a student washes out, they only pay tuition month by month. Keeping that in mind, the VA only pays 100% of the program cost for students who make it through 100% of the training. I see where you were going with that, but the math just doesn't work out. This isn't Silver State Helicopters.

Not trying to be argumentative, as that's not my style, but you seem to be trying to portray the situation as VA investing stock in Veterans expecting a return. If I misunderstood something from your posts, by all means, straighten it out.

[Pohi]

I did the chapter 30 (paid 40% out of pocket) and still had enough left over to get both my bachelors and masters degrees.

 

If the VA covered 100% of mine it would have been great, but even if that goes away, the 60% will get a lot done.

[Flying Pig]

I did 8yrs and ended up with the 60/40 GI Bill. Worked full time and put myself through flight school.

[JohnLeePettimore]

But you still had to pay 100% of your PPL, right?

[Flying Pig]

Yes. For both my FW and RW

[JohnLeePettimore]

How long did it take you? Just out of curiosity.

[Flying Pig]

Probably about 3yrs. I did my private airplane and then stopped flying for a couple years because I got into LE. Between the academy, training and working midnight and weekends there just wasn't time. Then when I decided I wanted to try for aviation I did my instrument and commercial airplane, then did my add ons for RW. But excluding that gap in training I mentioned, probably 3 yrs once I got on it. For dual commercial inst FW and RW. I did my CFI for both after I was at about 2000hrs but the agency footed that bill. But lets face it... most people aren't going to do do dual CFI ratings either. In my opinion, there are some benefits..... but in my experience now, short of maybe helping you build some cheap xctry and night experience... and some IFR time, nobody in the helicopter world cares about your FW time. And nobody in the RW world cares about your airplane time. At least not early on. If you don't meet the helicopter minimums, having airplane time doesn't really seem to make up for it.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Flying Pig

[JohnLeePettimore]

See? This is what I love about this forum. Guys actually willing to lend their experience and guidance to up-and-coming pilots. I like and appreciate that. Also the fact that nothing gets sugar coated.

[Flying Pig]

The only reason I did both was because my agency flies both. I really really wanted in

[JohnLeePettimore]

I would love to get dual rated, but the only fw flying job I can think of that I would want to fly is Ag. Other than Ag, Airlines, and Cargo, the pickins seem slimmer on that side of the fence. Of course, my opinion of this is based on the experience of my family and friends that are FW pilots. I am sort of the black sheep as far as going RW. I'm just not into flying at 15k AGL. I much more enjoy flying at 800 feet. And I know there are more fixed wing jobs than what I mentioned, but it was the point behind it that I was making.

[troll.detector]

JohnLee

 

Yep hear what you are saying.

 

Not saying you guys don't deserve the funding, just saying if the point of the funding was to provide you with a new career then it is failing for a huge majority and costing a fortune.

 

Also 'skin in the game' - yeah maybe bad phrase considering what many of you go through- my apologies.

[JohnLeePettimore]

Its all good. I do see the point you are making. $100k is a lot to spend to be under-employed for the following couple years.

[Mikemv]

Its all good. I do see the point you are making. $100k is a lot to spend to be under-employed for the following couple years.

 

In my experience as a consultant/educator to numerous flight schools, I have learned that a lot of Vets drop out after attaining the Private rating. Schools tell me that many of the vets are not motivated to apply themselves to become pilots. They began training thinking it would be cool to fly helicopters and do not want to put in the work to follow the career path.

 

I wonder about two things? How many Vets drop out of University, College degree or technical school programs and how many that finish are immediately employed?

 

I wish all Vets and all pilots in training the best.

 

Mike

[eagle5]

In my experience as a consultant/educator to numerous flight schools, I have learned that a lot of Vets drop out after attaining the Private rating. Schools tell me that many of the vets are not motivated to apply themselves to become pilots. They began training thinking it would be cool to fly helicopters and do not want to put in the work to follow the career path.

 

 

Mike

Not a Vet, but I can certainly relate to discovering that the mystique/draw of flying and flying as a job are two completely different things leading one to change their mind.

 

I have a friend who is a Vet currently using his benefits to get a four year degree. Not to get a job, but he says he'll earn a lot more money at his current civilian job afterwards.

[cryesis]

Is there a way to get funding with the gi bill for a part 61 school? I remember reading about it somewhere but I can't seem to find the thread

[JohnLeePettimore]

I am a little hazy on 141 vs 61 flight programs. I can only use the one school I have experience with for reference , which is American Helicopters Inc. I am not sure which they fall under. But I do know that they are VA approved. Once you have your PPL, the VA will reimburse 60% of your flight training cost. Flying Pig would be a better person to ask about that.