rjl2001 Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 http://www.wptv.com/news/region-c-palm-beach-county/lantana/victims-of-lantana-helicopter-crash-identified Sad news out of Palm Beach. At least one is likely to survive. Thoughts are with the victim and his family. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddy Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradford Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 I wonder what could have happened. Hard to believe an auto rotation went bad. That bird is smashed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyD Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 RIP my brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iChris Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) I wonder what could have happened. Hard to believe an auto rotation went bad. That bird is smashed. Year-after-year, accidents during instructional flights, they continue to go bad.. Robinson Safety Notice SN-38IPRACTICE AUTOROTATIONS CAUSE MANY TRAINING ACCIDENTS Each year many helicopters are destroyed practicing for the engine failure that very rarely occurs. Autorotations were the major problem in dual instruction; they led to about 40 percent of all accidents in primary and advanced dual alike. Ninety-six percent of these happened while practicing autorotations; only six of 147 (less than 4 percent) involved actual emergency landings. AOPA Accidents During Instructional Flights 2014 The Bad: The R22 does demand respect. Regardless of your experience in the helicopter, when you think you have it figured out, it will remind you that you that it demands respect. Like all helicopters, especially those with light inertia rotor systems, the recognition time during an engine failure or other emergency requiring an autorotation is critical. The trick is to get the helicopter into an autorotation in time. Once in the autorotation it does a good job and is predictable. As a pilot of the R22 you must always be aware that getting into an autorotation is the most critical time. As a CFI you must double your effort and just know at some point in the flight you may have to take the helicopter if there is a problem. If there’s no problem, great, but the awareness must always be heightened. The Ugly: If you are not diligent, do not get the helicopter into an autorotation in the small window, and the rotor RPM get below about 75 percent you may never get it back. So it essential to just get the helicopter into autorotation and maintain RPM, deal with airspeed, and find a suitable place next. blog.aopa.org/helicopter Edited January 5, 2015 by iChris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Don't get the RPM below 75%? I thought it was supposed to stall at 80?! Anyway, follow the guidelines set forth in SN 38. Isn't there supposed to be a "The Good" in there somewhere? Edited January 5, 2015 by eagle5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-aron Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 80% plus 1% for every 1000 ft of DA in the R22 Beta 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iChris Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Don't get the RPM below 75%? I thought it was supposed to stall at 80?! Anyway, follow the guidelines set forth in SN 38. I assume the 75% was taken from the low-rotor rpm demonstrations that were shown at the Robinson factory years ago. There were also Low-G recovery demonstrations conducted at the Robinson factory. This was back before the governors were required, made mandatory, on the R22. In a hover, you would slowly roll off the throttle and try to maintain a stable hover over the ground. Depending on conditions, you could normally get the RPM down to 75% and still recover with throttle. The demonstration was done at a 3-4 foot hover. It also demonstrated the effectiveness of the tail rotor. That was the unofficial low (75%) at one time. They wanted to make it more “foolproof” so Robinson says it's 80% RPM, +1% per 1,000ft. The 75% made it too easy for the fools to outnumber the proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle5 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 They still do that hover test at the course, but we didn't go that far down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary-mike Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 From the pictures I saw, it looks like low rotor rpm was an issue. I'm definitely not an experienced crash investigator but, I was told once that a tell tell sign of low rotor rpm is the main rotor blades being bent upwards. This being due to the blades losing rigidity from centrifugal force and the weight of the aircraft. No matter the reason or cause, my thoughts go out to all friends and family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tradford Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Helicopter crash statistics are sobering and counter intuitive. The more you practice safety maneuvers, the safer you should be and the more you practice safety maneuvers - the more likely you're going to crash. Stats suggest that CFIs should get hazardous duty pay - yet it's essentially a minimum wage job. Flying a helicopter recreationally is a great stress reliever, but if you can't institute a controlled crash within two seconds of a drive train issue, you're likely dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick McWilliams Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Why is the rotor speed redline on my R22 90%? I can say that autorotation at 90% and 70 knots gives a surprising long glide with lots of energy for the landing flair and zero speed set down. Do very many engine failures resulting in emergency landing come off without damage? These would seem to not be a reportable incident or accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorcer Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Reading student quote in: http://www.wsvn.com/story/27730190/names-of-west-palm-beach-helicopter-crash-victims-released. "I just remember that we were doing some emergency procedure, like where we simulate engine failures, and I guess when we went to bring the motor back on, the motor just didn't start back up."It is very possible that the student is just using the completely incorrect terminology, but otherwise it sure sounds like the CFI was demonstrating an air restart procedure. Has anyone heard of any CFIs demonstrating air restarts or for any other reason actually shutting the engine down during emergency procedure practice/demonstration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 It is very possible that the student is just using the completely incorrect terminology, but otherwise it sure sounds like the CFI was demonstrating an air restart procedure. Has anyone heard of any CFIs demonstrating air restarts or for any other reason actually shutting the engine down during emergency procedure practice/demonstration?Improper terminology. It would be foolish for anyone to demonstrate an air-restart procedure. That is, foolish X1000……. And, rumors start with speculation and media spin… Don’t read into it. Simply let the Feds do their job….. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryesis Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Sounds like a practice autorotation......bring the motor back on = rolling throttle on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01CelicaGTS Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 Improper terminology. It would be foolish for anyone to demonstrate an air-restart procedure. That is, foolish X1000……. And, rumors start with speculation and media spin… Don’t read into it. Simply let the Feds do their job….. Foolish? Yes. But don't say never. I personally know somebody that decided to climb until the engine quit, autorotate and do an in flight restart in an R22. The CFI was about 19 years old with a 20 or 21 year old student. Some of the stories I've heard from their "flight training" were straight up unsafe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) But don't say never. I personally know somebody that decided to climb until the engine quit, autorotate and do an in flight restart in an R22.I didn’t say never….. For anyone who’s been around this business more than a day, I’m confident they’ve met a foolish pilot –or two. Shoot, I’ve met foolish pilots, dangerous pilots and idiotic pilots…… Nevertheless, for this particular case, it was my intent to not point a finger at the CFI as I don’t believe he purposely shut-down the engine to demonstrate an air-restart procedure, as suggested. Could he have? Sure. However, I don’t think so…… That’s what the investigation will hopefully determine…… As for your acquaintance that climbed to flame-out….. That’s just dumb.... Therefore, please add “dumb” to the above list. Oh, that and suicidal……. Edited January 15, 2015 by Spike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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