Buying a share in an R44 worth it?

LFC4LIFE · December 30, 2021

Hello,

I'm currently working on my pvt certificate (over 25 hours currently) in a R22 and plan to go all the way up through CFI/II. I have been approached with the opportunity to buy into an R44 over the next couple months, the machine currently has 4 partners on it and one person is looking to sell. My question is would it be worth purchasing a share of the helicopter to get cheap R44 time while completing my commercial? The initial investment is substantial and it's also used for tours which kicks back a decent return to the owners. I know it's a tricky question but really just curious is R44 time is beneficial to have while training. I would be able to fly it for around $200 an hour if I were to buy in. Thoughts?

Thanks!

adam32 · December 30, 2021

Could be worth it...lots of variables to consider.

LFC4LIFE · December 31, 2021

4 hours ago, adam32 said:

Could be worth it...lots of variables to consider.

What would you be most hesitant about? If costs were not a factor, what would you be considering?

Hobie · January 1, 2022

Why does other owner want out? Do you know the other owners and their intentions? Make $ vs. lower hr cost to play? Have A&P review maintenance records. Do you have the cash when it needs new engine? What if you don't have the $. What are those terms? How do you get out when you have reached your hours to get CFII? What if no one wants to buy you out? Money pit for you at that point. Things to think about. Good luck.

Why do you need a R44 for training? Are you a big boy? If so, read threads on getting hired when you weigh more than 170-190lbs.

adam32 · January 1, 2022

On 12/30/2021 at 6:28 PM, LFC4LIFE said:

What would you be most hesitant about? If costs were not a factor, what would you be considering?

The initial buy in. The hours and condition of the machine. The return on tours in general isn't great so I would be cautious of how well it could be with splitting it four ways.

helonorth · January 1, 2022

If your main motivation is R-44 time, I would say don't get involved. I never trained or instructed in Robinsons but it seems like the consensus is don't waste you money on 44 time as it won't do much for you relative to the cost.

LFC4LIFE · January 4, 2022

Thanks so much for the feedback! Here are some further details on the situation:

Buy in is 70K (for 1/4 ownership)
R44 Raven with another 150 hours TBO
Owners lease back to an instructor for a profit (also does tours and such)
Profit is split in half - 50% going to maintenance kitty and 50% going to disbursements among owners
Owners receive time at $200 an hour (all 200 goes towards maintenance kitty)
Maintenance kitty already has decent size amount in it
Other three owners fly just for fun
Owner selling shares is looking to purchase a fix wing aircraft
Machine looks and runs great - flew it the other day and it was great

Once the TBO is up, owners will decide if they want to sell and disburse the maintenance kitty among themselves or complete the overhaul. I'm not a big boy (176lbs) but have heard from multiple pilots that a lot of R44 time looks good when trying to apply for jobs - especially tours etc.

Hope some of this helps clarify the situation! Again, thanks so much to all of you out there who responded!

LFC4LIFE · January 4, 2022

On 1/1/2022 at 10:19 AM, adam32 said:

The initial buy in. The hours and condition of the machine. The return on tours in general isn't great so I would be cautious of how well it could be with splitting it four ways.

On 12/31/2021 at 8:28 PM, Hobie said:

Why does other owner want out? Do you know the other owners and their intentions? Make $ vs. lower hr cost to play? Have A&P review maintenance records. Do you have the cash when it needs new engine? What if you don't have the $. What are those terms? How do you get out when you have reached your hours to get CFII? What if no one wants to buy you out? Money pit for you at that point. Things to think about. Good luck.

Why do you need a R44 for training? Are you a big boy? If so, read threads on getting hired when you weigh more than 170-190lbs.

Thanks so much for the feedback! Here are some further details on the situation:

Buy in is 70K (for 1/4 ownership)
R44 Raven with another 150 hours TBO
Owners lease back to an instructor for a profit (also does tours and such)
Profit is split in half - 50% going to maintenance kitty and 50% going to disbursements among owners
Owners receive time at $200 an hour (all 200 goes towards maintenance kitty)
Maintenance kitty already has decent size amount in it
Other three owners fly just for fun
Owner selling shares is looking to purchase a fix wing aircraft
Machine looks and runs great - flew it the other day and it was great

Once the TBO is up, owners will decide if they want to sell and disburse the maintenance kitty among themselves or complete the overhaul. I'm not a big boy (176lbs) but have heard from multiple pilots that a lot of R44 time looks good when trying to apply for jobs - especially tours etc.

Hope some of this helps clarify the situation! Again, thanks so much to all of you out there who responded!

adam32 · January 4, 2022

Only 150hrs left before TBO for $70k? That would be a hard NO for me. Let's say you get to fly it 40 hours out of that 150...that's $1750/hr, not including the $200/hr for maintenance.

Now lets say they sell it at TBO. They might get $100k for a timed out R44? Split 4 ways, you'll make up $25k plus a little from the maintenance fund...doesn't add up to me.

I'd stick with renting an R22.

Very rarely do partnerships would out well, especially with 4 partners and a near timed out machine.

helonorth · January 4, 2022

I guess it would depend on how much money is in the maintenance fund, what the overhaul will cost and what it will be worth after the overhaul. If you are just looking to build some time, this is probably not the deal for you.