An apology

[FFAOwner]

It's amazing how brave people can be when they think they cannot be identified. Well, I'll tell you who I am - Jane Pinto owner of First Flight Aviation at the North Las Vegas Airport. I had heard that there were some postings out here that combined what can only be described as a sales pitch for my flight school with negative comments about Silver State Helicopters. I've spent some time over the last couple of days investigating and am quite disgusted to find that those reports were true. Not only that these postings exist but one of the people engaged in the SSH-bashing is someone whom it doesn't take much of a stretch to identify as working at FFA.

 

While I don't mind the sales pitch I do mind the SSH-bashing. It is the policy of my entire organization to respect our competitors and to NEVER make negative comments about them in public; especially in something as impersonal as an anonymous forum such as this. One might even go so far as to say that it is an income limiting maneuver.

 

People have the right to their opinions and I'm a big believer in a consumer voting with their dollars. However, basic marketing teaches that one must never use negativity to sell a product and the person who has been placing these SSH-bashing postings in the same thread as telling people how great FFA is has done my company a great injustice and cast dishonor on an organization I've worked extremely hard to build. I'm not quite ready to "fall on my sword" but I will be dealing with the source of such bad judgement at my earliest opportunity.

 

To any of the CFIs and students of SSH that have seen these comments and been offended: I apologize to you for the posts made by anyone who may have been connected with my organization. It was not done with my permission or knowledge and is definitely not representative of the attitudes of my organization.

 

To all who have been annoyed and appalled at the unrelenting criticism of SSH that seems to permeate almost every topic in some way: I apologize that someone at my organization was one of the participants.

 

To those folks still trying to make up your minds about where to train I would appreciate an opportunity to show you what FFA has to offer - with much more constructive comparisons of the different operations than has thusfar been presented on this site.

 

I wish you all the best of luck in achieving your flying goals. Contact us if we can be of any help.

[tomw]

Bro, you are being such a Yellow Liberal. There is no need to apologize. Facts are facts. Your employee has the right to hand out facts. What your statement tells me is that you condone SSH's marketing tactics, for one reason or another. Maybe you know that there will be a lot of partially trained SSHers soon and you want to be the one who takes them in. Maybe it is in your best interest that SSH keeps ripping people off. And to be honest with you, there really hasnt been any unjustified "bashing" on SSH in this forum for a while. I would rather call it "informative criticism". "Bashing" would tend to include things that are probably untrue or otherwise unjustified. Tell your employee to lay off a little and if he wants to "bash" then do it without including the name of your school/company, but I dont think it would be honorable of you to do much more than that.

[rotoflightmaniac1]

TomW.

 

First of all, it would seem your "bro" is a very professional Lady, aka JANE Pinto, and is not to be addressed in that form. Also, from some of the previous posts that you have out there it would be somewhat obvious that you lack the professionalism to reply in the courteous and professional manner that you find in almost every experienced helicopter pilots posts on this site. For instance, in this post you started out with name calling and what would seem to be false accusations. I mean no offense, but It would seem you could be having an early start in your "career" (if that is what your are trying to work at) burning bridges that you haven’t even finished building yet. Jane neither agrees nor disagrees with the SSH posts, but she makes it clear that she will not have anyone in her company posting negative comments about another school while obviously promoting his/her own school. Her company has policies and every employee must abide by those policies, its her choice as to what she should do next. I think you owe her an apology for your rude and unkind remarks. And please, for yourself and others be more professional and courteous.

 

Jane,

 

I appreciate your remarks and the apology for your CFI. You reflect what I have heard and look forward to experiencing regarding the professionalism within this industry and among schools.

 

Thanks,

 

Jake

[JJNM]

Jake,

 

Is everyone not brothers in a sense in the helicopter community? I come from a military background and all the people in my career field were "Bros" no matter race, religion, or Gender. Is it different here? I am in no way defending Tomw's post, but I do respect him for being; for lack of a better word, "REAL". I like reading forum post because it’s everyone’s unofficial view on things. So IMO, professionalism only goes so far. We leave our stripes at the door. I got the gest' of what Tomw was putting out and I agree, I would rather someone voice there opinion about something first hand. Rather then, they not say anything in fear of being reprimanded by their work place. That is the main reason people are afraid to post there identities, because, people want to persecute them for their opinions. So as a newbie, I ask you veterans to go easy on the folks that want to just speak there mind, cause believe me, I have learned more from people speaking there mind, then from the "canned" PROFESSIONAL, Politically Correct post.

 

So Jake, if "Esprit de corps" is a quality that the helicopter world lacks, please let me know now, so I may reconsider my career choice. And if you think I’m scared to say who I am, my name is JJ Perkins, I live in North Las Vegas, I am currently in Baghdad, Iraq as an Explosive Dog Handler, and I am looking for a helicopter school to go to. Anything else, just ask.

 

Very Respectfully

 

 

JJNM

[joker]

JJNM,

 

Explosive Dogs!

 

Wow, what are you feeding them. , 'nitro-glycerin?'...my friend's dog became almost explosive, but that's after we fed it some left over vindaloo.

 

Handle explosive dogs with great care!

 

In all seriousness, I respect the post from the school owner, and concur with the purpose of her post. It was well written (punctuated, grammatically sound, and with good spelling), professional and objective. Unfortuately, other posts in this thread and in this forum, don't earn the same respect.

 

I think there is a difference with being 'polite' and respectful of other's rights whilst making your points, and being bullish and rude.

 

I guess have been open in my opposition, not of the sharing of experiences and information , good or bad, but of the way that some opinions are put forward. I know that this has frustrated more than one person in the past!

 

However I firmly believe that there is a way to say things, and there is a way not to. There is a time to say it, and a time not to. There is are legal implication too. There is a difference between fact and opinion. The fact is that some of these lines have been crossed.

 

Most of all though, there are boundaries which society collectively agrees on. Some rules are written, and are known as 'the Law'. Others are not and these are what we call etiquette...or basic manners. And there is a group of rules which govern how we act as individuals within an industry - professionalism.

 

Although this forum is anonymous and we are in a virtual 'cyber-world', I try to mind my manners, the law and act professionally, as I would in the 'real' world. Why not? Why is it that people tend to loose them when they can hid behind an anonymous moniker?

 

My basic rule is, "Would I stand up and say what I was going to type in a pub filled with people I don't know??" "Would I go up to that person and say that in front of him?" If not, then it doesn't get typed.

 

So, the gripe is not of what's being said, but how it's being said. At times this SSH affair has breached acceptable limits of manners, law and professionalism. It has been crow-barred into threads where it doesn't belong...and points have been bludgeoned to death, almost to the point of being detrimental to the purpose of the postings...i.e. people's sympathy is waning.

 

Just my thoughts...

 

Joker

[flingwing206]

I am currently in Baghdad, Iraq as an Explosive Dog Handler...

Joker beat me to it, but I recommend a very long lead!

 

In re the topic of the thread, basic business sense says that nobody benefits from bad-mouthing a competitor or their product. Likewise, no one looks good expressing strong opinion without the benefit of any evidence to back them up. Put these two activities together...

[JJNM]

Hey guys...Lets keep it professional....jk.

 

 

 

My dog only Explodes on command, and she is on a strict C-4 diet, “nitro” is hard to come by and its too unstable. I guess I deserve all this... Let me rephrase.... Explosive DETECTION dog Handler... Keyword being "detection" My bad...

 

 

 

DISCLOSURE STATEMENT: ATTENTION!! ATTENTION!! You are reading this post at your own free will. JJNM's post will contain information and opinions that may pertain to you as a reader and may outright hurt your feelings. JJNM cannot be responsible for your lack of a sense of humor, thin skin or the lack of the ability to accept constructive criticism. By reading my post, you are releasing JJNM of any liability. If you do not concur with this statement or post you are free to press CTRL/ALT/DELETE on your keyboard, (do this twice if you are operating on Windows XP.) Upon doing this; my post will immediately disappear. OH YEAH, you cnat balme me fro ayn msis seplled wrods or punkacation erors. Bceause if yuo cna raed thsi yuo udnerstnd whta Im tyring to sya

[Guest pokey]

very well put Joker,,,,,,,,,,,,, i myself have been turned off by alot of what i have seen from people here.

[rotoflightmaniac1]

Hi JJNM,

 

You really gave me way to much to reply to so I'll just get at what I can while I have a few minutes at my desk. I don't want the canned stuff anymore than you do and thats not what I was asking for. I just asked TomW to be "more professional" because then there might be a level of something other than rude, false, and unneeded remarks in his post. I was only arguing the name calling and false accusations. And yes, we are all "brothers" per say in the heli world. Maybe in the military you can call a lady "bro" but in the corporate world and I'm sure in the helicopter industry as well (and almost anywhere else) that wouldn't go over to well . Thanks for your service to our country and good luck in finding a school!

 

Sincerely,

 

Jake

 

p.s. Thanks Fling and Joker for your comments. I can always count on you guys to give good, honest advice when us rookies are all fouled up!

[HelliBoy]

I'm kind of dissappointed to hear he's not a door gunner...its like telling a chick I'm a doctor and not a helicopter pilot.

P.S. If you're stupid enough to post your identity on this forum while attacking other companies you deserve what you get. People have long memories.

[Helo-Pilot]

We should keep in mind that we can never take back the words we say, or type.

 

I learned a LONG time ago that it's seldom a good idea to bad-mouth anyone, even ex employers.Would you want to hire someone who walks into your office talking trash about his/her last employer? Keep in mind that they may be talking about YOU some day.

 

I have expressed my opinion about a past CFI, and to this day I regret it. Not because what I said was wrong, but it was just a bad thing to do, and I regret it personally. ( He was a good CFI, and a good friend, I just believed that he was ready to move on because he no longer seemed interested in instructing, and I believed that it showed in the instruction I was getting. )

 

We should all be carefull about what we say, as prospective employeers DO watch these pages.

 

Cain't we all just get along?

[Gerhardt]

I'm with Jake on this one all the way. Ms. Pinto's post was well written in all aspects and deserves a great amount of respect.

 

I'm just a PPL but I do enjoy talking with others who also have an interest in helicopters and there are not many places you can go to talk with other helicopter pilots. I've met several folks here whose posts I enjoy reading and who are lively on the Sunday evening chats. But there are also just a few here who want to dominate every thread bashing SSH. I'm sorry they had a bad experience...but to dedicate their lives to telling everyone about it...

 

And there are SO MANY posts here already about SSH that no one could possibly miss them and nothing new is being said. It's turning this forum into a place of negativity instead of one where pilots can go to visit with each other in a positive environment.

 

Perhaps the solution is to have a forum here on VR dedicated solely to SSH and any reference to SSH in any other forum would get the author suspended. One point Ms. Pinto made was that negativity publicized in the helicopter industry is bad for everyone. Please, let's spend our time educating and humoring each other and keep this an upbeat atmosphere!

[AdamSTL]

Yellow Liberal.

 

Even if you ignore how offensive this is to a large portion of the country; wow, that’s just obnoxious.

[JJNM]

Hey Helliboy,

 

I guess that joke is pretty accurate???

 

- What's the difference between a Pilot and God???

 

- God doesn't run around, bragging about being a PILOT!!!!

 

V/R

 

 

JJNM

 

-Please refer to above disclosure-

 

P.S. Jake, I understand where your coming from, and I agree to an extent. Thx for your post. JJNM

[tomw]

Even if you ignore how offensive this is to a large portion of the country; wow, that’s just obnoxious.

 

Oh my goodness, you are offended at the phrase "Yellow Liberal"? I am so sorry! And to every normal Liberal out there in the world I send my deepest apologies and sympathies.

Ha! sounds like what the media is doing for the middle eastern islamists.

[klas]

...sounds like what the media is doing for the middle eastern islamists.

 

Please, you offend me, if you are referring to terrorists - the correct term is "terrorists who abusively invoke Islam"

 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191404,00.html

 

The European Union says it will no longer use the phrase "Islamic Terrorism" to describe attacks carried out by Muslims. Instead, EU press releases will use the phrase "terrorists who abusively invoke Islam."

 

The words "Islamist," "Fundamentalist," and "Jihad" will also be banned, as part of a new "lexicon" that seeks to avoid offending Muslims.

 

The EU's counterterrorism chief says the government is taking great pains to use language that "makes clear that we are talking about a murderous fringe that is abusing a religion and does not accept it"

 

[KMWK]

We should keep in mind that we can never take back the words we say, or type.

 

I learned a LONG time ago that it's seldom a good idea to bad-mouth anyone, even ex employers.Would you want to hire someone who walks into your office talking trash about his/her last employer? Keep in mind that they may be talking about YOU some day.

 

I have expressed my opinion about a past CFI, and to this day I regret it. Not because what I said was wrong, but it was just a bad thing to do, and I regret it personally. ( He was a good CFI, and a good friend, I just believed that he was ready to move on because he no longer seemed interested in instructing, and I believed that it showed in the instruction I was getting. )

 

We should all be carefull about what we say, as prospective employeers DO watch these pages.

 

Cain't we all just get along?

 

Did it too, not to a friend, but regret it just as much. Good point...................... Thanks!

[AdamSTL]

Oh my goodness, you are offended at the phrase "Yellow Liberal"? I am so sorry! And to every normal Liberal out there in the world I send my deepest apologies and sympathies.

Ha! sounds like what the media is doing for the middle eastern islamists.

 

So your defense is that it would be absurd not to call all liberals cowards because... well - most of them are, aren't they? Good luck out there.

[kanedog]

Jane, please check out the thread..... The R44, what is its place in the training market........ I brought it up for u to have a look at what alasvegascfi, Mark I believe his name is, has been saying. His posts are on the first pages.

Pay particular attention to posts 3,5,8,14,16,17 and 18. I think you will find these interesting. Kudos for coming online and saying what you said. After reading and corresponding with mark, I felt no need to set foot in FFA. Now that you have come on a public forum and acknowledged certain things, it changed my mind, thank you. I would come in for a for some training or even just a coffee.

[JJNM]

Jane, please check out the thread..... The R44, what is its place in the training market........ I brought it up for u to have a look at what alasvegascfi, Mark I believe his name is, has been saying. His posts are on the first pages.

Pay particular attention to posts 3,5,8,14,16,17 and 18. I think you will find these interesting. Kudos for coming online and saying what you said. After reading and corresponding with mark, I felt no need to set foot in FFA. Now that you have come on a public forum and acknowledged certain things, it changed my mind, thank you. I would come in for a for some training or even just a coffee.

 

Kanedogg,

 

You need help!!! I'm not gonna stoop to your level, and name call, as you have done in previous post. You get no points for telling the boss on people. Thats just childish!!! What you don't realize is Ms Pinto, was talking about people like you who are brave to say things when they know their name is secret. People like you that lack a certain piece of male equipment. Yeah maybe alasvegascfi's post was alittle unsafely said to the Novice pilot, but like everyone has been sayin this whole thread... There is a professional way to say things and calling another person an idiot isn't the way to do it. So Kanedogg, I hope your equipment or lack there of, hangs low when you are in person. So I challenge you to the same thing you challenged alasvegascfi too...What is your name and where do you teach???

 

JJNM

[kanedog]

Kanedogg,

 

You need help!!! I'm not gonna stoop to your level, and name call, as you have done in previous post. You get no points for telling the boss on people. Thats just childish!!! What you don't realize is Ms Pinto, was talking about people like you who are brave to say things when they know their name is secret. People like you that lack a certain piece of male equipment. Yeah maybe alasvegascfi's post was alittle unsafely said to the Novice pilot, but like everyone has been sayin this whole thread... There is a professional way to say things and calling another person an idiot isn't the way to do it. So Kanedogg, I hope your equipment or lack there of, hangs low when you are in person. So I challenge you to the same thing you challenged alasvegascfi too...What is your name and where do you teach???

 

JJNM

The guy is an idiot. He openly challenges people to ride with him so he can demonstrate engine failures from outside of the hv curve, he states he exceeded the FAA rules for g force in rotary wing(the helo may or may not be owned by Jane, but whoever does own it should be notified so no unsuspecting pilot may lose their life because this idiot exceeded the limits of the machine), he states he risks peoples lives(most likely without them knowing it) by flying right at vne. Of course I will let the appropriate person know. I would be the idiot if I didnt let the appropriate person know. That appropriate person would be Jane in this case.

Are you, JJNM, the type of pilot that exceeds the limits of a machine or damages it and doesnt tell anyone, then hope like hell that the pilot to fly it next doesnt die because you dont have the intestinal fortitude to tell anyone you made a mistake. Your reply makes it sound like this is the type of pilot you are. Let me know what YOUR name is and where YOU work so as I wont fly any machines you have flown, and also to let my friends and family know to not ever fly with you.

Im letting his boss know that the guy is unsafe, he publicly states it himself. If a life is saved or accident is prevented by me doing this, so be it. If the guy gets fired because of it, so be it. Whats more important, safety or this clowns job......its just unfortunate that he has dragged the company he works for into all of this.

[JJNM]

It's amazing how brave people can be when they think they cannot be identified. Well, I'll tell you who I am - Jane Pinto owner of First Flight Aviation at the North Las Vegas Airport.

 

Kanedogg,

 

Sounds like she's talking about you!! Your post was very noble and typical from a person who refuses to reveal his identity. So my advice to cowards is this. If you feel the need to comment on someone’s post, then KEEP IT CIVIL!! Don't attempt to insult them by calling them an idiot. My forum advice to you is, read the whole thread before asking questions. If you take some time and read the previous post, then maybe you'll see that I said who I am. This is the second time that I know of, that you made this error. The first time was with alasvegascfi. It’s futile to argue safety, so I’m not going to even get into that. But again when dealing with that particular thread, they are talking about the R44 and what people think about it. alasvegascfi has over 700hours in R44 so he was merely commenting on its capabilities. I had a Honda F4I (motorcycle) that could do a quarter mile in the eleven's and I know that, cause I did it. Does that make me an idiot because I exceeded the manufactures capabilities? I'm just stating what it can do, first hand. So Kanedogg, if you’re going to be the Forum head hunter who looks for safety violations, and takes their name down and tells their boss, at least have the common courtesy to disclose your identity so we as the public can face our accuser. But maybe staying anonymous and secretly emailing people’s boss makes you feel like your some kind of superhero who’s fighting for justice and safety in the helicopter industry, if that’s the case, continue your path because I won't bother you. Cause I learned a long time ago, not to mess with CRAZY people!!

[PhotoFlyer]

Thank you Jane, for your sincere apology.

 

JJNM, kanedog, and any others I may have missed: The insults, sniping, and ridicule stop now! If you have constructive commets, please post them, I would love to read them. If you find that you cannot post without name calling, and sniping, then please keep the comment to yourself.

 

--PF

[kanedog]

Kanedogg,

 

It’s futile to argue safety, so I’m not going to even get into that.

 

 

There is no argument to safety. It is either is safe or it isnt. No argument.

[AdamSTL]

I had a Honda F4I (motorcycle) that could do a quarter mile in the eleven's and I know that, cause I did it. Does that make me an idiot because I exceeded the manufactures capabilities? I'm just stating what it can do, first hand.

 

I'm not sure that's a very strong argument. I doubt an 11-second pass exceeded any operational limits of the bike itself, however, if you exceeded the speed-rating on the tire making that pass then - yes, I guess that's fairly moronic. If you exceeded the speed rating on a motor-cycle tire and it failed; and you looked a pile of hamburger afterwards, I doubt you'd go around telling people how great it was to exceed a tires speed-rating. So doing so just because you got away with it seems kind of foolish. The limits aren't there to spoil anyone’s fun. Everyone is well aware that the vast majority of them are to stop you from doing something that will damage the aircraft. Personally I thought he was just throwing a number out there - I could envision a situation where I rounded 3.5 up to 4 - that is what it rounds too after all. That said - I really don't want to be anywhere near an aircraft that has had its' operational limits exceeded (EGT comes to mind) and unless it's their personal aircraft, I think everyone has a right to get upset at someone for risking the safety of whoever else has to work with the thing.