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Lessons = expensive wow!


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Hello,

 

There are no flightschools in my area so I will kind of have to go at it on my own, I have found a CFI that will work for $30 an hour and he said he can rent an R-22 for $250 an hour.

 

This seems pretty steep compared to what I see here.

 

I look over to the side an see $300 an hour turbine time.

 

I don't know what to do, I can't afford to travel to do it really as I will have to pay for my lessons over time, eh... :(

 

Any ideas?

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Prices are higher on Mars, pistons are useless there because of the different kind of atmosphere. Lack of oil gets prices even higher. Very sad.

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Prices are higher on Mars, pistons are useless there because of the different kind of atmosphere. Lack of oil gets prices even higher. Very sad.

 

Find a reason to travel, that's about all you can do. Find a good reason to move. Unless you can buy an R22 to train in and sell it when you're done, doesn't sound like you have too many options.

 

Ask your CFI if he can get the R22 cheaper buy buying block time.

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Hello,

 

There are no flightschools in my area so I will kind of have to go at it on my own, I have found a CFI that will work for $30 an hour and he said he can rent an R-22 for $250 an hour.

 

This seems pretty steep compared to what I see here.

 

I look over to the side an see $300 an hour turbine time.

 

I don't know what to do, I can't afford to travel to do it really as I will have to pay for my lessons over time, eh... :(

 

Any ideas?

 

250 PLUS 30 and hour for his time is highway robbery. Operating cost per hour for an R22 is $104 (insurance, maintenance reserve, and fuel) per the factory website. If the aircraft is leased, most companies are charging anywhere from $80 to $100 an hour. Most students are paying $200 - $225 an hour SOLO. If you look at it that way and you pay $280 an hour someone is making a killing and it isn't you. Personally, I would pay no more than $250 an hour for dual in an R22.

 

I would stay away from Van Nevel simply because you're limiting your options for employment in a big way. I can't name another school that trains in the FH1100, so there's your only viable option for employment. Yeah there are other jobs out there that aren't instructing but they're few and far between. Robbies or Schweizers are the way to go I think.

Edited by nsdqjr
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250 PLUS 30 and hour for his time is highway robbery. Operating cost per hour for an R22 is $104 (insurance, maintenance reserve, and fuel) per the factory website. If the aircraft is leased, most companies are charging anywhere from $80 to $100 an hour. Most students are paying $200 - $225 and hour SOLO. If you look at it that way and you pay $280 an hour someone is making a killing and it isn't you. Personally, I would pay no more than $250 an hour for dual in an R22.

 

I would stay away from Van Nevel simply because you're limiting your options for employment in a big way. I can't name another school that trains in the FH1100, so there's your only viable option for employment. Yeah there are other jobs out there that aren't instructing but they're few and far between. Robbies or Schweizers are the way to go I think.

 

+1

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There are a lot of other options besides Robbies and Schweizer's. Granted they are the least expensive in the short term, but to get employed you are going to need a wide range of experience. The key to becoming a professional helicopter pilot is to be able to strap on any bird and know that with a few hours of coaching you'll feel comfortable. We get a large number of pilots through our place that just want to give something new a try. For the most part, almost all of them are able to hover and fly our S55, Huey, Bell 47, or Alouettes in just a short time. This is not to say that they are ready to take on missions by themselves, but we feel comfortable enough to sit back and watch them enjoy the feel and the ride. The building of time needs to be something that you enjoy. Shop around, try several different places and aircraft, when you get the time and all of the requirements, settle someplace and let them prepare you for the check ride. Nothing says you have to spend 40 hours in one place. Nothing says you have to spend 40 hours in the same aircraft. Make your learning experience an adventure.

bossman

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Prices will be all over the place but the average is between 200 and 250. You need to do comparison shopping before you commit to anything. Don't let the schools push you around. There are a lot out there that are not looking out for your best interested. Question everything you hear. If you can't get at least 2 or 3 to confirm what you have heard then beat it.

 

Bossman makes a good point, however it is dependant on where you plan to go with your license. Greater than 90% of the training market in the states uses Robbies and Schwitzers. If you are looking to just get your PPR (private pilot rotorcraft) (BTW the most useless license you can have if you don't own your own aircraft). Then go with what ever school is closest and focus only on what aircraft they fly. "MAKE SURE THEY WILL RENT TO YOU AFTER YOU OBTAIN YOUR LICENSE FOR PLEASURE FLIGHTS." If you plan to go further wth your career to earning income as a pilot then stick with Robbies and Schwitzers. My justification for this is the process it takes to go from passing your CFI to paid job other than flight instruction. "Most" not all gain the usual 1000 hours by doing flight instruction (there are people who have done this without doing flight instruction, but this is very rare). As I said earlier Greater than 90% of flight schools use Robbies and Schwitzers, if you don't do most of your training in these aircraft you will significantly limit your options for obtaining that all important CFI position. Unless you won the lottery and are swiming in dough, don't limit your options, stick with the Robbies and Schwitzers. If a company has a different aircraft and want you to come teach for them, they will train you in thier aircraft.

 

Bossman has some cool aircraft at his place and I encourage you to follow up with him at some point, but if you get a job they will usually pay for you to do your turbine conversion.

Good luck

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permison,

Ask mattcob how he got his job in the gulf with only 600 hours. He will tell you it was because of the 400 hours turbine time he had.

bossman

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bossman!, good to see ya back, where ya been hidin your ole self as of late?

 

2nd that!

 

Bossman. Do you have another Alouette? I thought you only had the one that had the wire strike. I was so upset when that happened, as I figured I won't ever get another chance at cheap turbine time.

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permison,

Ask mattcob how he got his job in the gulf with only 600 hours. He will tell you it was because of the 400 hours turbine time he had.

bossman

 

Yeah, welcome back Bossman (I had not known you had not been posting). Regarding turbine time. That's great for Mattcob, but how common is that? If SuperSixOne does not do his/her training at your place, how likely would it be for him or her to get the same oppertunuty?

Permison

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We get a large number of pilots through our place that just want to give something new a try. For the most part, almost all of them are able to hover and fly our S55, Huey, Bell 47, or Alouettes in just a short time.

 

just curious, but how are you "renting" your huey for training? what kind of certificate are you operating it under?

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permison,

Ask mattcob how he got his job in the gulf with only 600 hours. He will tell you it was because of the 400 hours turbine time he had.

bossman

 

I'm curious as to which operator in the gulf would be irresponsible enough to hire someone with only 600 hours? Not a chance in hell I would go offshore with him, regardless of how well he seemed to handle the aircraft and/or how great a guy he might have been. Experience is golden. I've been with Airlog for a little while now and when I interviewed they made a point of how they like hiring the Robby and Schweizer guys because they've learned to fly power limited and have had to make performance planning the focus. I know that applies to the other aircraft as well, but not to the same extent. Bossman is right, there ARE jobs to be had out there for the low time guys, they're just harder to find. If you have the patience and want to go that route do it, there isn't any one right way to tackle this career.

 

Bossman, you and I never see eye to eye and tend to butt heads. I am glad to see you posting again though, and I hope Marpat has recovered from the accident. We need alternate routes in this industry, and I'm glad there are providers out there that offer them. My heart has always been for the pocketbook of my students. I hate to see them spend all this money and I only hold my position because I want them to have the highest chance of success as humanly possible.

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$30/h for a CFI is reasonable, $250/h for a R22 is steep. Usually R22 rental costs between 180-220/h. Consider, though, providing an aircraft for instruction means 100h maintenances, possibly driving up prices (CFI has to get an a/c from somewhere and what company likes to rent out a/cs for external instructions). And, he might calculate to make some profit from a/c rental, too.

 

Here's the deal: Unless you just want to get a private license but consider making this a career, eventually you'll have to get aquainted to the idea to be flexible and move around. Schools usually charge around $200-250/h for a/c + cfi, so don't limit your options but make good planning.

 

Third possibility: Put chash up front, buy an R22 ($150.000), rent a cfi, fly for fun, sell a/c ($140.000). Advantage: no 100h maintenance.

 

Cheers,

Lance

Edited by Lance Turbue
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$30/h for a CFI is reasonable, $250/h for a R22 is steep. Usually R22 rental costs between 180-220/h. Consider, though, providing an aircraft for instruction means 100h maintenances, possibly driving up prices (CFI has to get an a/c from somewhere and what company likes to rent out a/cs for external instructions). And, he might calculate to make some profit from a/c rental, too.

 

Here's the deal: Unless you just want to get a private license but consider making this a career, eventually you'll have to get aquainted to the idea to be flexible and move around. Schools usually charge around $200-250/h for a/c + cfi, so don't limit your options but make good planning.

 

Third possibility: Put chash up front, buy an R22 ($150.000), rent a cfi, fly for fun, sell a/c ($140.000). Advantage: no 100h maintenance.

 

Cheers,

Lance

 

What about Insurance and all those elusive costs? I can't imagine a company would want to insure an aircraft to a person who dosn't even have their license yet anywhere short of Ft. Knox.

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2nd that!

 

Bossman. Do you have another Alouette? I thought you only had the one that had the wire strike. I was so upset when that happened, as I figured I won't ever get another chance at cheap turbine time.

We have three Alouettes and are rebuilding the one that crashed.

bossman

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I'm curious as to which operator in the gulf would be irresponsible enough to hire someone with only 600 hours? Not a chance in hell I would go offshore with him, regardless of how well he seemed to handle the aircraft and/or how great a guy he might have been. Experience is golden. I've been with Airlog for a little while now and when I interviewed they made a point of how they like hiring the Robby and Schweizer guys because they've learned to fly power limited and have had to make performance planning the focus. I know that applies to the other aircraft as well, but not to the same extent. Bossman is right, there ARE jobs to be had out there for the low time guys, they're just harder to find. If you have the patience and want to go that route do it, there isn't any one right way to tackle this career.

 

Bossman, you and I never see eye to eye and tend to butt heads. I am glad to see you posting again though, and I hope Marpat has recovered from the accident. We need alternate routes in this industry, and I'm glad there are providers out there that offer them. My heart has always been for the pocketbook of my students. I hate to see them spend all this money and I only hold my position because I want them to have the highest chance of success as humanly possible.

As you know I always agree with everything everyone else says. nsdqjr, mattcob is flying 2nd. seat until he acquires another 400 hours. I do not think his employer is irresponsible. I think his employer has evaluated his abilities and found that with his background and the type of flying he has been exposed to he is qualified to fly for them. As far as power limited and performance planning go, everyone is responsible for these duties. All aircraft have limitations whether you are flying in the gulf or taking mom and the kids for dinner. The students and a high chance of success is of importance to me also, but if they do not have fun doing it, I can't get high watching them on their first solo. Then I get to put their shirt on my wall. We teach people to enjoy helicopter.

bossman

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just curious, but how are you "renting" your huey for training? what kind of certificate are you operating it under?

The Huey, and please put a capital letter when referring to the Huey, is not for rent. We do crew longline and bucket training with this machine. We also do an intro to part 133 external load. She is in restricted category. By the way, The Huey, was the only real helicopter ever built.

bossman

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bossman!, good to see ya back, where ya been hidin your ole self as of late?

67,

Glad to be back. Been a little hectic after the crash, but we're up and running again. Got a couple more Alouettes. Thought I'd get on here and spice things up for you old timers. Got to keep the blood pumping. Come see us.

bossman

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Likewise,

 

Things have been pretty dull around here without you pissing everyone off (myself included) plugging Marpat Aviation and your goofy Alouettes.

 

Good to hear from you!

 

-V5

Hey, go easy on the Alouettes. I hate to give the French credit for anything, but they did build a great helicopter in the Alouette line. You know that I'm not allowed to promote MARPAT Aviation on this forum and would never attempt to do so. As far as pissing people off goes, I've spent most of my life doing that in one way or another, never been a conformist. Always traveling against the grain and swimming upstream. It's a dirty job and I love to do it.

bossman

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Bossman, how far are you from Baltimore? I might be able to make it out there.

Not too far. We are in the SW portion of West Virginia. In the heart of the coal fields. 6L4 Logan County Airport.

bossman

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Yeah, welcome back Bossman (I had not known you had not been posting). Regarding turbine time. That's great for Mattcob, but how common is that? If SuperSixOne does not do his/her training at your place, how likely would it be for him or her to get the same oppertunuty?

Permison

It breaks my heart to realize you did not know that I had not been posting. Regarding turbine time, we are trying to make it common. Mattcob did this by being a flight instructor for us and flying pipeline patrol. He acquired his 400 hours of turbine in less than a year. I know that this is not possible for everyone, but it can, and does happen. Status quo is not the way to go. Let's give folks some choices, let's provide them with an alternative, let's give them different aircraft to fly. It's not all about the money.

bossman

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