negative balance Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 I want to add a few non standard items to my Rotorway helicopter. If I start cutting out chunks of the body and start welding on things to the frame to affix the small bay I wish to add, Do you think I would have to have my bird re-certified for airworthiness ? Or do you think I should forget it and avoid any problems that may arise ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future206Pilot Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 It probably depends on what you are planning to put in/on it... If you are planning to put a couple of hellfires on it you might have to. Other than that i wouldn't know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negative balance Posted January 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 It probably depends on what you are planning to put in/on it... If you are planning to put a couple of hellfire's on it you might have to. Other than that i wouldn't know... I wanted to add a better electronics package than the idiot gages I have. Mount a nice GPS system and have a place to have all the stuff in one water tight compartment. As for Hellfire's go, is that some sort of antenna system or electronics system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brushfire21 Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Check this out for what a Hellfire, a must for any helicopter in my opinion! I bet they would through in a GPS unit for free if you bought one hahahaha! http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/ne...01013_1_n.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negative balance Posted January 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Check this out for what a Hellfire, a must for any helicopter in my opinion! I bet they would through in a GPS unit for free if you bought one hahahaha! http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/ne...01013_1_n.shtmlAGM-114 HELLFIRE TypeShort-range, laser-guided, air-to-surface missile. Description The Hellfire family of missiles consists of four generations; basic (AGM-114A/B/C) and anti-ship; interim (AGM-114F); Hellfire 2 (AGM-114K); Longbow (AGM-114L). All Hellfire missiles are similar in shape in that they have a cylindrical body with a dome shaped nose section that has four small clipped delta stabilizing fins in a cruciform configuration. On the rear third of the missile around the motor section are four in-line, wide-chord, short-span fixed wings with control fins at their trailing-edges. The missiles are of modular construction being made up of five major sections; seeker, warhead, guidance, propulsion and control. Depending on missile type, the seeker can be semi-active laser or active MMW radar and depending on mission requirement the warhead can be single or tandem HEAT, or blast/fragmentation. For an air-to-air application, the single anti-Armour unit would be used with a proximity fuze rather than impact. The guidance units for the AGM-114 A/B/C/F and RBS-17 anti-ship missile are identical, containing actuation gas storage, thermal battery, autopilot electronics and guidance section with pitch and yaw/roll gyros, whereas the AGM-114K and AGM-114L missiles have a totally redesigned unit (see below). All current Hellfire missiles use the same minimum smoke, internal burning, solid propellant motor which accelerates the missile to greater than M1.0. The control unit containing the actuators for the control fins forms the boat tail around the motor's exhaust. Ill just bet that a single one of these things (can openers) could buy a couple real helicopters.I think Ill take the new antenna and a nice GPS system and better radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67november Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 aaahh come on now, who wouldn't want to fly around blowing up the countryside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negative balance Posted January 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 aaahh come on now, who wouldn't want to fly around blowing up the countryside The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67november Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 May the force be with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EAGLE1 Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Maybe it's just me but flying around armed with a couple of Hellfire's would be having the "force"with you..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apiaguy Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 The rotorway is an experimental helicopter and has an EXPERIMENTAL airworthiness certificate. As such you can do anything you want to it including mount your hellfires without changing the airworthiness because it is always an experiment. So start cutting! You are the experimenter and are responsible for determining if the aircraft is "airworthy" after modifying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Hey Young'un, I found in my lunchbox a catalog that has a Garmin panel package ranging in price from $4,325 to $7,850. This is for LSA/Experimental. As Apia says, cut away. Although, a talk with your local FSDO may give you information that may make your bird-ah, how do I say this without sounding offensive-better. Maybe they have a better idea on how to modify it without doing damage to your bird. Just a thought. On that note, I'd go with Mavericks. longer range. Later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC120AV8R Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Maybe it's just me but flying around armed with a couple of Hellfire's would be having the "force"with you..... Does that mean we're getting Hellfires???????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negative balance Posted January 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Last time I took my wopter down to see my Dad and his FSDO I ended up having to replace a cylinder buy parts that didn't come cheap. I found by staying away the whole process of owning a helicopter was alot cheaper. If I ever add a weapon system to it, It will be one of my own making. Maybe a small crop-duster tank filled with that blue die from the movie "Medicine Man".~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darwin Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 negative balance, I believe the legal information you seek is contained within FAR 21.93; the keyphrase is "major change". Here are some links that may be helpful.http://www.google.com/search?q=experimenta...ft+major+changehttp://www.google.com/search?q=FAR+21.93http://www.wanttaja.com/avlinks/MAINT.HTMhttp://www.provide.net/~pratt1/ambuilt/faqhmblt.htm (FAQ #21 At the bottom of the page.) Take Care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negative balance Posted January 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 (edited) hi ! Edited January 2, 2008 by negative balance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negative balance Posted January 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 (edited) Very useful information Thanks Darwin ! It says nothing about electronics and my Airframe was sent as a complete unit, welded and certified by a aviation build up shop. Ill call them when I can and ask. Most of my Annuals are done by an A&P (My Dad) And I don't plan on cutting into the airframe tubing just adding on a few hangers so I can attach a waterproof box and tie all my new electronics into it and mount it within the noise of the forward cabin. I think I can get away with welding 2 hangers to attach the new compartment bay and only have to cut the back side cabin with out altering the outer skin of the body. The inside mount I'm sure will be the easiest to contend with. WitchI read about the packages (GPS Systems) for about a year now. I really like the new 530W's they can replace my 8 year old nav/com system completely and save the space.a really nice selling point if I should get rid of my Rotorway. Garmin panel package GNS-530AW is 16 watts package where the 530W is only 10 Watts. Do you think there is a big difference when it comes to watts, Not like I'm adding speakers to it ! Edited January 2, 2008 by negative balance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airBeater Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 <snip>Garmin panel package GNS-530AW is 16 watts package where the 530W is only 10 Watts. Do you think there is a big difference when it comes to watts, Not like I'm adding speakers to it ! The wattage is the transmission power available when keying the mic on the comm. You need 4 times the power to transmit twice as far line of sight without obstructions or outside factors. ...So, if you can transmit 10 miles on 10 watts, you'll only be able to transmit 2.65 miles further (12.56 miles) on 16 watts. If you're antenna positioning causes problems with transmitting, it might be worthwhile to get the 16 watt one, otherwise probably just use the 10 watt model, especially if the price difference is large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500E Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Why cut or weld to frame use tube clamps ( not muffler clamps ) a tube cut in half length ways with small tubes welded on at right angle to bolt the 2 halves back together around existing frame tube, then weld what you like to clamp, if it don't suit, remove and try again, Schweitzer and others have used them for years you can even pad them to give resilience to whatever you mount on them. Have made quite complex shaped clamp fittings using this type of fabrication.We always radius the edges of tube especially ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darwin Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 After further reflection on your question, I had a thought.... I'd personally shy away from welding. Welding will damage the anticorrosion coating (paint/powdercoat) that is on the tube frame, will throw spatter everywhere unless you use GTAW/TIG to weld it, welding is quite permanent, very immovable after the fact, and could damage the tempering/annealing that that may have been done to the frame to stress relieve it after initial welding. Instead, I would use a Rubber-Cushioned Loop Clamp, avail from mcmaster-carr on page 1438I would use 300-series stainless clamp with EPDM, Neoprene, or Silicone cushion.I would avoid Zinc-plated Steel, and Aluminum clamp. The advantage of the clamp is that you can move them to the exact location you need them, then tighten, and its done. Welding would have to be done right the first time. Also, you can remove, or move clamps at a later date if you so wish. Anyway, you can go to mcmaster with this link http://www.mcmaster.com/and type in 1483 and it will take you to the relevant page.This link might also work, though, it does not have the nice frameset that the site usually has.http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplCtlgPage...;CtlgPgNbr=1438 -Darwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negative balance Posted January 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 (edited) Why cut or weld to frame use tube clamps ( not muffler clamps ) a tube cut in half length ways with small tubes welded on at right angle to bolt the 2 halves back together around existing frame tube, then weld what you like to clamp, if it don't suit, remove and try again, Schweitzer and others have used them for years you can even pad them to give resilience to whatever you mount on them. Have made quite complex shaped clamp fittings using this type of fabrication.We always radius the edges of tube especially ends. I like this way best, It would allow me to do what I want with out damaging the frame or setting a fire. Ill take a few pictures and work on cutting up a few pieces to experiment with, for the best fit. Thanks for the idea 500E & Darwin It's clearly the best choice. Edited January 2, 2008 by negative balance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future206Pilot Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Last time I took my copter down to see my Dad and his FSDO I ended up having to replace a cylinder buy parts that didn't come cheap. Isn't there a conversion kit for the Rotorway to turn it into a turbine??? I found this... The T-62T-32 turbine engine was originally designed by Solar for use in an Army single seat helicopter. The project was scrapped after the engines were already in production, so the engines were installed instead in portable electric generator sets. These generator sets are still in use by the military today and routinely become available as surplus, usually for about $3,500. This is a very good price to pay for an $88,000 jet turbine engine! The engines can be inexpensively rebuilt to brand new condition and will run for thousands of hours with limited maintenance. In this picture, the tan rectangular case on the left is the reduction gear box. The air inlet section to the turbine is next to the gear box and the burner section and exhaust are on the right. Just a thought..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 500, you are a genius. I doubt I'd have ever thought of that. 206, I used to work on those gen sets. Solar, a division of-get this-Turbomach, who also owns Airesearch. Ah, FTD classes. NB, the tubing thing sounds like the way to go. Question though; how will this affect the weight and balance? Negligable? Later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negative balance Posted January 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 500, you are a genius. I doubt I'd have ever thought of that. 206, I used to work on those gen sets. Solar, a division of-get this-Turbomach, who also owns Airesearch. Ah, FTD classes. NB, the tubing thing sounds like the way to go. Question though; how will this affect the weight and balance? Negligable? Later The first thing Ill do is remove the skids and replace them with retractable landing gear. then Ill add a 3rd blade to the rotor. Add the 4 hellfire's and even a pair of 2.75 inch rocket pods. Ill yank out the engine and for the price I think Ill add 2 T-62T-32 turbine engines. this should take care of all my problems . <~ what ya think -~JK I really shouldn't have a problem with the balance, My Dad will make sure that everything is right or he just wont let me fly it. Nor would I want too. the weight should be under 20lbsso that shouldn't be a problem ether. At worst ill just counter the weight at the back of the chopper as ill be mounting the new panel box forward center in the nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500E Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 witch you say the nicest things LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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