BOATFIXERGUY Posted March 20, 2008 Posted March 20, 2008 The crash was in Las Vegas, NM not LV, NV. Ah,...still makes no sense. Where's the report? Quote
Goldy Posted March 20, 2008 Posted March 20, 2008 Allow me to state what may be obvious to several longer time posters. As a community, VR doesnt really get into specific bashing of any one person or business. ( I'll give the shocked SSH students a bit more slack for what they endured) I personally dont endorse it, I dont care for it. If you want to post some trash, then tell people you have some concerns and invite them to PM you for specifics. That being said, I'm not sure I agree that at 501 hours any accident must be related to that extra hour put on the airframe. I'll let the experts debate FAR 43.16 and the definitions of "unairworthy", which happens to be the single most quoted word which does not even have a definition under FAR's !! Goldy Quote
BOATFIXERGUY Posted March 20, 2008 Posted March 20, 2008 Allow me to state what may be obvious to several longer time posters. As a community, VR doesnt really get into specific bashing of any one person or business. ( I'll give the shocked SSH students a bit more slack for what they endured) I personally dont endorse it, I dont care for it. If you want to post some trash, then tell people you have some concerns and invite them to PM you for specifics. That being said, I'm not sure I agree that at 501 hours any accident must be related to that extra hour put on the airframe. I'll let the experts debate FAR 43.16 and the definitions of "unairworthy", which happens to be the single most quoted word which does not even have a definition under FAR's !! GoldyExactly...just go over to JH for 5 seconds...makes me sick every time I peak over there. As for the unairworthy...when the faa is pissed off at you (like I had them a while ago), they really stick to that word. I filed a maint waiver to move a bird to another maint. facility for a new mechanic I was trying out for a 100 hour inspection. Guess what they did...they went after the mechanic that signed it off and myself for an 100 hour AD violation despite the waiver. I won the battle with FAA legal thanks to the AOPA legal fund. Quote
Goldy Posted March 20, 2008 Posted March 20, 2008 Guess what they did...they went after the mechanic that signed it off and myself for an 100 hour AD violation despite the waiver. I won the battle with FAA legal thanks to the AOPA legal fund. Sorry to hear about such stupidity while the FAA was exercising the right to spend your tax dollars !Hopefully, it should be obvious that my comments were not directed to any of your posts... Goldy Quote
FULL TOUCH DOWN Posted March 20, 2008 Posted March 20, 2008 I agree with you Goldy, I am not here to bash anybody I was just wondering what happened. I just brought up the ferry permit because he said it was over due for maintenance. Quote
mountainchopper Posted March 20, 2008 Posted March 20, 2008 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...00335&key=1 all that stuff about Ozark, AR doesn't make any sense, but I've seen the ntsb do that before. Quote
BOATFIXERGUY Posted March 20, 2008 Posted March 20, 2008 Sorry to hear about such stupidity while the FAA was exercising the right to spend your tax dollars !Hopefully, it should be obvious that my comments were not directed to any of your posts... Goldy Gotta love the FAA...always promoting business. I didn't think you were directing comments on my post, but thank you for the post! Quote
BOATFIXERGUY Posted March 20, 2008 Posted March 20, 2008 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...00335&key=1 all that stuff about Ozark, AR doesn't make any sense, but I've seen the ntsb do that before. "According to the FAA inspector who interviewed the pilots, they were "en route to Arizona for a checkride." They were planning to land at LVS for fuel. They decided to make a practice 180-degree autorotation to landing. When the helicopter was approximately 300 feet above the ground, they added power but the engine did not respond. The helicopter landed hard, spreading the skids, and bending several engine mounts." Ouch...glad they were ok. Quote
ercam1991 Posted March 20, 2008 Author Posted March 20, 2008 "According to the FAA inspector who interviewed the pilots, they were "en route to Arizona for a checkride." They were planning to land at LVS for fuel. They decided to make a practice 180-degree autorotation to landing. When the helicopter was approximately 300 feet above the ground, they added power but the engine did not respond. The helicopter landed hard, spreading the skids, and bending several engine mounts." Ouch...glad they were ok.They were not flying it to Arizona for a check-ride, that is nothing more than a lie. They were flying it for the 500 hour inspection.....over flew the 500 and did not have a ferry permit. The pilot...and I will call him "Smith" was told that the ship still had 9 hours before the 500 was due. From Colorado to Arizona. They offer the X-country to students at a discounted rate to help alleviate some of the cost to ferry the aircraft plus helps the student build a little time at a discounted rate. This is standard Premier protocol. If you read some of my earlier post...you will get a better picture. And yes, flying with Casey or Kenton is a very smart choice. They are stand-up guys. And if you can find Casey, the ex-chief flight instructor for Premier, you would have a better understanding of why he walked out. He is a man of prinicpals....send me a message and I can explain further for these posts. Quote
ercam1991 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Posted March 21, 2008 Just re-read your posts. At first you said they were doing 180 autos. Then you said they were on a long X-Country. Now your saying that they were taking it in for maintenance. Which is it??? Oh, and still haven't saw it online yet...Read the posts.....including the last one. Quote
ercam1991 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Posted March 21, 2008 Sounds like we need someone to back all of this talk up with some concrete evidence. Where is the official report, statements, news coverage?You need to learn patience. Quote
ercam1991 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Posted March 21, 2008 I haven't seen it yet either, and the NTSB usually has something up within 24 hours. Sounds like we are not getting the entire story or someone is just guessing on what happened.What I am telling you is first hand knowledge.Read the posts. Quote
ercam1991 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Posted March 21, 2008 I agree with Boatfixerguy I was just asking if the flight actually happened did the pilot get a ferry permit that's all.No permit was received..... Quote
ercam1991 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Posted March 21, 2008 No permit was received.....They joined the needles at 300 AGL and was not able to reduce the decent. They were at an altitude greater than 6800msl for the demonsrtation. After the hard landing.... They hit...bounced back off the ground...they were still able to semi-hover the R-22....it then came to rest off the taxi way....The aircraft is a total loss. I am just glad that "Smith" and his student was ok. Quote
BOATFIXERGUY Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 They joined the needles at 300 AGL and was not able to reduce the decent. They were at an altitude greater than 6800msl for the demonsrtation. After the hard landing.... They hit...bounced back off the ground...they were still able to semi-hover the R-22....it then came to rest off the taxi way....The aircraft is a total loss. I am just glad that "Smith" and his student was ok. As are we all. Quote
NorCalHeliKid Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) You need to learn patience. You have issues. Why don't you tell everyone on this forum who you are so as to validate all of your accusations. You are the one on here running your jibs, not me. I'll be over here doing something productive...bieng patient. Edited March 21, 2008 by NorCalHeliKid Quote
mountainchopper Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 to bad the pilot didn't check the logs for himself if this is the case. norcalhelikid and ercam1991, no need for a pissing match. Quote
adam32 Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Still not sure how you can place all the blame on Mike??? Helicopters have hard landings/crash all the time. Its bad that it happened, but both walked away. I have a feeling you were just waiting for something to happen with Premier, so that you could go bad mouthing them... Quote
Node Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 mountainchopper couldn't be giving better advice. Never believe what someone claims has been done to a helicopter (aircraft). Don't know about anyone else, and I only have CFI experience to draw on, but this has almost burned me in the past. Always take the time to check the books out for yourself. Besides, if the mechanic sees you, you'll either really impress him/her, or just piss them off(I'm sure a mechanic likes a pilot to ask...hasn't ____ been done! ). Remember that the FAA doesn't give a darn about what someone told you! Quote
67november Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 ercam, your credentials are being challanged here as you keep posting with no back up! Quote
badduck Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 I've talked with Mike several times, and he is nowhere near a Jerry Airola!! To compare the two is just straight stupid and ignorant!! I know that they downsized due to other issues, and have an operation in Alaska and also overseas now open. They are trying to get out of the training and more into tours/rides. That would be a long cross country, I'd like to hear more... Alaska? lol Quote
badduck Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Again, let's check out the NTSB report before we start jumping to conclusions. I have met Mike before and he seems to be a lot more ethical, businessminded, and friendlier than some other training school owners. But then again you only know so much until you become a student in the program.No doubt. Do business with the Kelly's. They're not what they seem. Quote
BOATFIXERGUY Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 ercam, your credentials are being challenged here as you keep posting with no back up! Agreed... ercam1991, I know that you are new to this forum. So I will give you some leeway. My advise: You will find that here you need to have your profile updated with information to validate your posts or no one will give you credit. It's too easy to hide behind a login name. Also, to avoid confusion in your posts, have a complete post to the best of your ability from the start. If you make a mistake, and we all do, others will point it out so there's no misinformation. This forum is really about drivers and wannabe drivers sharing information and helping out in other causes. If you are looking just for a bashing forum...go over to JH where no one takes credit for what they say. Now given all that, you can still post what you want, just remember to be accurate and not misleading.....not saying you have been, just advice from what happens to new guys on here... You don't want to be a VEGA... Quote
badduck Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Agreed... ercam1991, I know that you are new to this forum. So I will give you some leeway. My advise: You will find that here you need to have your profile updated with information to validate your posts or no one will give you credit. It's too easy to hide behind a login name. Also, to avoid confusion in your posts, have a complete post to the best of your ability from the start. If you make a mistake, and we all do, others will point it out so there's no misinformation. This forum is really about drivers and wannabe drivers sharing information and helping out in other causes. If you are looking just for a bashing forum...go over to JH where no one takes credit for what they say. Now given all that, you can still post what you want, just remember to be accurate and not misleading.....not saying you have been, just advice from what happens to new guys on here... You don't want to be a VEGA... I have tpo agree with you guys about Kenton and Cayce. I know them both, and have flown with them both. They are very stand up guys with a lot of integrity. I respect them both. As far as ercams credentials, he can give what he wants...in his defense though, I spoke with one of Premiers instructors today about what happened. Obviously I'm not going to say who. The instructor backed up everything ercam has been posting. Apparently there was high winds as well. This was a situation of poor decision making on the CFI's part and unfortunately he will have to deal with the repercussions. The flight was a maintenance flight, without a special permit. For Premier to gain some income on their already financial stress they attempted to make this a commercial flight while aquiring cross country time for the student. There is nobody in Colorado to do the maintenance for Kelly because he owes them money. I'll admit I dislike the Kelly's for many reasons. But as for what ercam has been posting, and what I learned recently...it's all true. Quote
ercam1991 Posted March 21, 2008 Author Posted March 21, 2008 Allow me to state what may be obvious to several longer time posters. As a community, VR doesnt really get into specific bashing of any one person or business. ( I'll give the shocked SSH students a bit more slack for what they endured) I personally dont endorse it, I dont care for it. If you want to post some trash, then tell people you have some concerns and invite them to PM you for specifics. That being said, I'm not sure I agree that at 501 hours any accident must be related to that extra hour put on the airframe. I'll let the experts debate FAR 43.16 and the definitions of "unairworthy", which happens to be the single most quoted word which does not even have a definition under FAR's !!You cannot over fly and AD.....You no that right? The 500 hour inspection on an R-22 is an AD. You cannot overfly it.Period! Goldy Quote
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