Charts

[Witch]

I've taken to not taking a folded-up chart clipped to the kneeboard lately. Reason? Too much map for too little cross country.

 

What I've done lately is to photocopy the section I need for a flight and do all the course drawing, time, distance, and checkpoint markings on it, as well as an abbreviated navlog. Paper reduction you know. Anyway, another pilot-airplane-tells me that it's required to have a full, current chart on board and not an excerpt. I went to looking into the FAR's. but couldn't find a requirement to carry a chart. I looked mainly in part 91, and the index. I couldn't find a reference.

 

Might someone tell me where it may be?

 

Later

[Gerhardt]

There is no such requirement. What he's probably refering to is the requirement to obtain all relevant information in preparation for a flight. So, for example you would be in violation if you were going on a x-c and not at least looked at a current sectional and obtained a weather briefing. But you do not have to have a full current sectional on board with you for a short hop.

 

I did most of my helo training 150 miles from home so I wasn't real familiar with the area. For the short training hops I used a piece of sectional that I laminated that fit nicely on my left thigh, held in place by the third hand. I also had ATIS, tower and CTAF frequencies written in large type in the bottom corner. It worked great for the year I trained over there.

[Jeff]

There is no such requirement. What he's probably refering to is the requirement to obtain all relevant information in preparation for a flight. So, for example you would be in violation if you were going on a x-c and not at least looked at a current sectional and obtained a weather briefing. But you do not have to have a full current sectional on board with you for a short hop.

 

I did most of my helo training 150 miles from home so I wasn't real familiar with the area. For the short training hops I used a piece of sectional that I laminated that fit nicely on my left thigh, held in place by the third hand. I also had ATIS, tower and CTAF frequencies written in large type in the bottom corner. It worked great for the year I trained over there.

 

I concur.

 

~Jeff

[FlyNHighNFast]

I keep one of these in my flight bag. Air Chart

 

It may not be a requirement, but you can get busted under 91.103 if you get ramp checked and can't show that your photocopy came from a current chart.

[bossman]

I've taken to not taking a folded-up chart clipped to the kneeboard lately. Reason? Too much map for too little cross country.

 

What I've done lately is to photocopy the section I need for a flight and do all the course drawing, time, distance, and checkpoint markings on it, as well as an abbreviated navlog. Paper reduction you know. Anyway, another pilot-airplane-tells me that it's required to have a full, current chart on board and not an excerpt. I went to looking into the FAR's. but couldn't find a requirement to carry a chart. I looked mainly in part 91, and the index. I couldn't find a reference.

 

Might someone tell me where it may be?

 

Later

No requirement. Reference to using all available means. Keep the atlas, sometimes the helicopter mission takes you to places not referred to on a sectional. Most of the GPS' today have all the chart information built into their database. By all means do not rely entirely upon your electronic devices, but use them. I'm from the old school and like to keep up with my location on a paper chart when going cross country.

[1badz32]

I just finished memorizing the required documentaion to be on board.

A, Air worthyness certificate

R, Registration

R, Radio lisance

O, operating limitations

W, Weight and balances.

I would assume your charts are not required.?.?

[FlyNHighNFast]

The radio license is no longer a requirement.

[Goldy]

I just finished memorizing the required documentaion to be on board.

A, Air worthyness certificate

R, Registration

R, Radio lisance

O, operating limitations

W, Weight and balances.

I would assume your charts are not required.?.?

 

Be careful there...those ( except radio) are only the pieces of paper you need regarding the aircraft...you also need the documentation regarding the pilot (you) which is medical, certificate, government ID and your logbook to show currency..but here's the clincher. As stated above you need to be able to prove to a FAA enforcement officer that you and the aircraft are prepared for the flight and that you have used all available means to prepare. SO just getting an ATIS, while it helps, may not satisfy him. When is the 100 hour inspection due ? I don't know is not the answer they are looking for ! When was the transponder last inspected?, etc...There was another very similar thread a few months ago that discussed these same topics.

 

SO, renters beware ! Owners probably know when their next annual is...the FAA expects a renter to also look at maintenance logbooks as a part of preparing for a flight...and they WILL ask the question.

 

Goldy

[Witch]

the FAA expects a renter to also look at maintenance logbooks as a part of preparing for a flight

(sarcasm)

Oh yeah, like I'm gonna walk a quarter mile to the maintenance hangar to check the maintenance logbooks. (/sarcasm)

 

There is a sheet in the rental book that has some inspection times and such. Most of the time I can't make heads or tails of it.

 

As for the photocopy, how would someone know whether it came from a current chart or not?

but you can get busted under 91.103 if you get ramp checked and can't show that your photocopy came from a current chart.

I'd suspect the pilot would've made a copy from a current chart. I mean that seems like a given-no? Also, 91.103 says nothing referring specifically to charts. Unless I'm missing something in interpretation?

 

Anyhow, maybe I'll just carry the charts in my bag and not worry about it. I'm gonna go after the airplane guy's throat next time I see him though. He got me paranoid enough to believe that the guy working on the phone lines across the street is actually from the FAA and is tapping the phone lines in a consipracy to take away my certificate and throw me into a Federal prison for conspiring to reveal that black unmarked helicopter that hovers over my house at three in the morning spraying mind-altering chemicals and microwaves. I have video.

 

Later

[BOATFIXERGUY]

No requirement. Reference to using all available means. Keep the atlas, sometimes the helicopter mission takes you to places not referred to on a sectional. Most of the GPS' today have all the chart information built into their database. By all means do not rely entirely upon your electronic devices, but use them. I'm from the old school and like to keep up with my location on a paper chart when going cross country.

 

What I was going to say also. We always kept current local charts in the aircraft no matter where we were despite the Garmin 430 in the bird. And at Sturgis, I actually had a guy ask for our charts and other things, and even though some items are not required to be hauled around with you, you should know the answer on where they are kept.

 

As far as the ATLAS. Isn't that used primarily for IFR (I Follow Roads)? I had a friend that did pipleine stuff in an enstrom and actually used an rand mcnally atlas vs charts to find his fuel truck.

[helonorth]

No requirement to have your logbook with you. Only that you have logged the time to meet

currency. No requirement to have charts (current or otherwise) unless operating under part

135 that I know of. As far as a ramp check, you would need to produce the required documents

that must be on board the aircraft. I think it be unlikely that you would be asked to produce

maintenance records or know times remaining on inspections. That would be more of an audit,

not a ramp check.

[cruise475]

I don't think you are requred to carry your log book while you fly. If something bad were to happen, your kinda screwed if something also happened to the logbook.

[bossman]

I don't think you are requred to carry your log book while you fly. If something bad were to happen, your kinda screwed if something also happened to the logbook.

Student pilots are required, especially if on cross country to an airport not their home. They need a sign off in their log book for the cross country.

[Tom22]

I would like to add some input to this discussion about airworthiness and ramp checks. Attached are two documents one from the AOPA and other from the Orlando FSDO the former discusses ramp checks and the latter is an airworthiness checklist. The airworthiness checklist contains some items that are particular to airplanes. However, I think it is a good reference to use for helicopter pilots. For example, FAR 91.207 deals with ELT’s which is not required for helicopters operating under FAR 91. Second, FAR 23.1547 compass deviation card pertains to airworthiness standards for normal, utility, acrobatic, and commuter category airplanes. Compass deviation placards for normal category rotorcraft can be found in FAR 27.1547 or FAR 29.1547 for transport category rotorcraft.

[Goldy]

No requirement to have your logbook with you. Only that you have logged the time to meet

currency. No requirement to have charts (current or otherwise) unless operating under part

135 that I know of. As far as a ramp check, you would need to produce the required documents

that must be on board the aircraft. I think it be unlikely that you would be asked to produce

maintenance records or know times remaining on inspections. That would be more of an audit,

not a ramp check.

 

 

Slight diff of opinion on this- as far as the logbook- students have to have them in possession along with all of your required endorsements. The ramp inspector might ask if you are current if you have passengers- I would prefer to have the evidence with me that I am. As far as maint/insp records I have seen them ask. They ABSOLUTELY expect that you have reviewed those logs...how else could you be sure that the ship is airworthy? You certainly do not have to produce them as as pilot...but you need to review them prior to flight.

[Wally]

I've taken to not taking a folded-up chart clipped to the kneeboard lately. Reason? Too much map for too little cross country.

 

What I've done lately is to photocopy the section I need for a flight and do all the course drawing, time, distance, and checkpoint markings on it, as well as an abbreviated navlog. Paper reduction you know. Anyway, another pilot-airplane-tells me that it's required to have a full, current chart on board and not an excerpt. I went to looking into the FAR's. but couldn't find a requirement to carry a chart. I looked mainly in part 91, and the index. I couldn't find a reference.

 

Might someone tell me where it may be?

 

Later

 

Been pushed W-A-Y the heck off course, many many times, sure is nice to put a finger on paper and know where I am and have a graphic depiction of options- even if the GPS is working. A picture, on paper, is worth at least a thousand words, at least until displays are commonly letter-sized or larger, and sharp as print. I won't even mention Murphy's Law...

I have a current chart at hand, all the time. I always have and I always will- period. I don't care if the rules say I have to have it. The law doesn't make you safe or smart, only legal ($8 is cheap piece of mind). I do the photocopy thing, too, and I love my GPS, but if you don't have room for a chart, you need to reexamine your priorities. Put it under the kneeboard, sit on it, whatever, but have it.

Edited April 6, 2008 by Wally

[Witch]

but if you don't have room for a chart, you need to reexamine your priorities.

It's not so much as not having room for a chart in as much as reducing the clutter and having a more efficient use of space. Baltar knows that it's not very roomy in the cockpit of an R-22.

 

Later

[Wally]

It's not so much as not having room for a chart in as much as reducing the clutter and having a more efficient use of space. Baltar knows that it's not very roomy in the cockpit of an R-22.

 

Later

 

Take the chart, some things are always worthwhile, no matter what. Do your photocopy shortcuts instead of unfolding the big chart, but have it available. Use the GPS. Consult the oracles and the OUIJA board, flip a coin. TAKE the charts! Someday, you'll be glad you did, and the more flying you do, the more certain that day is.